Paladin Classleads + Addiction Change

Ellodin

It's already happened to someone!

Sothantos

I am going to go serpent and stalk people who mention selling or buying herbs/minerals on market just to do this now.

Wynedere

Hmm, I think I like this even less than those blasted talismans, which run a close race with ships on my meter of hatred.  

Sidonia

Iocun said:

Sidonia said:

When I read the classlead my first thought was that somebody was going to buy/harvest like 2k of something and forget to inr and eat it all in one go

I think the chance of that someone dcing/logging out, dropping all those herbs, and getting them stolen far exceeds the chance of this person getting afflicted by addiction out of nowhere, not curing it, then developing a sudden hunger for bloodroot and eating 2k of them.

I think the chance of that someone dcing/logging out, dropping all those herbs, getting them stolen or getting afflicted by addiction out of nowhere, not curing it, then developing a sudden hunger for bloodroot and eating 2k of them exceeds the chance of that someone dcing/logging out, dropping all those herbs, or getting them stolen.

Iakimen

Iocun said:

Sidonia said:

When I read the classlead my first thought was that somebody was going to buy/harvest like 2k of something and forget to inr and eat it all in one go

I think the chance of that someone dcing/logging out, dropping all those herbs, and getting them stolen far exceeds the chance of this person getting afflicted by addiction out of nowhere, not curing it, then developing a sudden hunger for bloodroot and eating 2k of them.

While I don't hold any opinion on the matter myself:

I don't see why being dsled/dstabbed/evileyed with paralysis/addiction with paralysis prio (which is definitely everyone right now) would be such a rare occurrence. It is not implausible for someone go into group defense right after an arena duel/harvesting, forget to inrift, get hit by these attacks, and lose all of their bloodroot.

Addiction works with moss too, on the side. Dsl curare/vardrax, be unfortunate enough to have a significant amount of bloodroot/moss out, moss eating toggled, and there you have it. If I were still Runie, I'd probably start considering vardax as a high prio venom in group fights. Not for getting the kills, but curare/kalmia/vardax loop can really drive those herb/mineral losses into your face, if you're precaching. Of course, that's if they keep outring spare herbs after addiction procs. Losing gold deters me significantly more than dying.

Please don't do that to me @Bonko.

Nonetheless, I don't really mind this consequence. Just saying there is the undeniable potential to lose a lot of herbs.

Jarrod

Again, it seems like people are complaining they can't have the convenience of OUTRing tons of herbs and not being penalized for it.

Adapt your caching, only cache before a rift lock is coming. Pre-caching is a punishable convenience, not a right.

Santar

Any class that can riftlock and use addiction - Sentinel, Paladin, Infernel, Runewarden, Jester, Shaman can just spam addiction nonstop to waste massive amounts of herbs for the other person. 

If the person chooses to stop outring herbs, then they get riftlocked. It's a choice between either wasting mass herbs to mitigate the effects of riftlock or inring your herbs and dying easily.

This isn't balanced combat. I'm fine with riftlocks being possible due to addiction, but the way it has been implemented just makes combat unnecessarily tedious.

I like the idea of this change, but the way it's been implemented is just -way- over the top.

Also, I'm not sure if potash gets all consumed by addiction, but if it does, it shouldn't. If it does, then that's going to make this even more powerful for damaging someone out that can't outr potash.

I like the general idea behind this change, but the way it has been implemented is just -way- over the top.

Dunn

How the hell many herbs are you outrifting?

Iocun

@Iakimen: I never said it won't happen. Pretty much all bad things that can happen do happen sooner or later. But for it to happen in the manner you described, quite a few conditions would have to be true:

- The person must be a harvester, harvesting.

- The person must be doing so in large quantities, but without the assistance of a script that inrifts on its own, or without thinking of doing so himself.

- The person must, after harvesting, get into a fight against a venom-afflicter who already started to incorporate vardrax into his offence.

- The person must have a system that cures for him, but the system can't be good enough/up-to-date enough to know that eating bloodroot while having addiction and 2k bloodroot out is a bad idea.

Now, in the brief period of time now that addiction exists in this form and systems still haven't adapted, yes, there's a chance that this will happen to you, if you harvest a lot and have a habit of never inrifting. Even more so due to the fact that currently, people are of course trying out that new addiction thingy. But it won't be long until your curing system will be updated, to make sure to inrift all but one of the herb you want to eat before eating a herb under addiction. And if you don't use a public curing system at all, it's a non-issue anyways, because you'll either fix your system, or you're a manual curer and would get owned in that group fight to begin with, and then drop all your herbs upon death!

Hint: getting into group fights with 2k herbs out has never been a particularly good idea.

Dunn

Why would you harvest and not inrift? This thread should be about bad habits.

Jovolo

You could just outr on a break? It would at least force them to use addiction, and it's not like you should ever need to have more than 10 bloodroot/kelp out, as long as you have a spare valerian pipe at 10 puffs.

Tesha

Just do what Gyrth does and carry 800-900 herbs and a starburst. That way when they kill you, you drop everything one by one and get to kill them while they are dced.

Sothantos

I remember when I was sentinel and pipelocks were still a thing. I tried to duel Carmain and it turned out he had 500 bloodroot outrifted.

Mishgul

the good old days

Blujixapug

I think this is a good countermeasure to the post-alchemist devaluation of herbs/minerals.

Maybe we could also add a system where you can feed herbs/minerals to minipets, so they grow in strength and level up, and learn new skills, and you can make them battle other people's minipets.

Mishgul

And have denizens with minipets in places where you can train them, and you can win prizes at each place in major denizen towns. Then when you win all of them you can take the long road up shala khulia causeway to beat up the four best denizen minipet trainers, to meet the greatest in all the lands to prove you are the very best pokemon trainer.

Synbios

Mishgul said:

And have denizens with minipets in places where you can train them, and you can win prizes at each place in major denizen towns. Then when you win all of them you can take the long road up shala khulia causeway to beat up the four best denizen minipet trainers, to meet the greatest in all the lands to prove you are the very best pokemon trainer.

And then hunt the legendary Mishtwo, who will proceed to PSYCHICFLOWERPOT your delicate posterior into a whiteout.

Sabiru

Whew, so glad this thread is over

Arador

Yes, people will waste herbs at one hell of a speed with Vardrax, I fully agree. But I think the point is stop people from outrifting a ton of herbs (something that was only done for the purpose of preventing riftlocks.) With this change you can either outrift a ton and waste them, or outrift just one or two and be fine.

However, I do like @Santar's idea that they get inrifted instead of eaten. Not to stop wastage but to make this a viable strategy in the arena as well.

Iocun

There definitely would be benefits to the idea of them simply getting inrifted. Making riftlocks in the arena viable would definitely be one of those benefits.

On the other hand, the way it currently works is not only to create a means of forcing an opponent to lose precached herbs, but also a means of discouraging him from precaching in the first place, which adds a further element to the defensive decisions a person has to make. Furthermore, the way it currently works also can be somewhat related to the term "addiction" (although I still prefer my original "gluttony"!), while the act of storing away extra herbs upon eating one wouldn't fit that term at all, so you'd probably have to come up with a different affliction name then.

Arador

As I said, I  appreciate the consequences with regards to precaching and I do not see them as a problem really. Tons of herbs are outrifted to avoid riftlocks, this makes them viable again.

I agree that the name would not fit, perhaps an affliction called "Hoarding" where a person feels compelled to store away all his precious herbs in a safe place ie. Rift.

Sohl

ITT: People too lazy to work out the very simple ways of preventing oneself from wasting herbs.

/Thread

I'm looking forward to seeing how people adapt to using and fighting against this new mechanic. Should be exciting!

Blujixapug

Iocun said:

Furthermore, the way it currently works also can be somewhat related to the term "addiction" (although I still prefer my original "gluttony"!), while the act of storing away extra herbs upon eating one wouldn't fit that term at all, so you'd probably have to come up with a different affliction name then.

"I looove herbs. But I can't eat them, because I'll get fat." *inr* *heavysigh*

Mizik

....

Sentinel? Dude @Makarios you know I'll have to - - up now right.

Like old times.

Edit: Looks like @Sidonia and @Tesha know what I'm taking about.

Rangor

It's still going to be harder to riftlock than it used to be back in the days. Outrifting plenty of herbs will still work.. 

Just add the ginseng to cure addiction higher up in the queue so you don't eat all your herbs if both arms are broken.......

I like the change, and it does make it possible to riftlock people again or make it take longer for them to cure out of what could be a riftlock. But this is in no way overpowered or an end all/win all affliction....

Note that you'll still have to afflict way faster than herb balance to get to the lock that will get you the "win".

Mizik

Should affect pipes

Jovolo

if you manage to stick darkshade and/or vomiting, that's still a 66% or 50% chance to stick addiction with no ginseng in their rift once you afflict with it and they try to cure. As long as you stick it pre breaks (With para + sensitive/asthma as buffers), all you have to do after that is kalmia and watch them get rift locked. It's even harder to not die to if you let them follow you into darts before you break. I'm not bothered about that, because it's still avoidable. The only issue I've had with this is shamans and infernals. (my opinion is auto discounted by habit though ;D )

Strata

Jovolo said:

if you manage to stick darkshade and/or vomiting, that's still a 66% or 50% chance to stick addiction with no ginseng in their rift once you afflict with it and they try to cure. As long as you stick it pre breaks (With para + sensitive/asthma as buffers), all you have to do after that is kalmia and watch them get rift locked. It's even harder to not die to if you let them follow you into darts before you break. I'm not bothered about that, because it's still avoidable. The only issue I've had with this is shamans and infernals. (my opinion is auto discounted by habit though ;D )

I'm confused because you keep saying "in their rift" as if they are going to run out of ginseng completely after you hit them with addiction one time.

Strata

Tesha said:

Why? There was no drawback before to having a large cache other than dropping it when you die. Now there is.

Outside of the arena, it makes no RP sense to be "addicted to storing things in your rift." But since there are situations inside the arena that already kind of don't make sense (not being able to blackwind/phase - for obvious reasons, not being able to envenom arrows, etc.), i suggested it because it could be a technical fix to allow addiction to function similar to how it would work outside the the arena. I can see many classes using this in PK encounters but not-so-much with serpents, as the majority of PK encounters with serpents are primitive at best (backstab/snipe), unless you're @Santar, scaring the shit out of people to the point of just freezing up, pissing themselves instead of running away after the first dstab.

Edit: damn dvorak

Unless... The affliction was changed to "hording" :P

You are:

an insomniac.

blind.

deaf.

a rift horder.

Mishgul

You can bwind in arena