Paladin Classleads + Addiction Change

Antonius

Slightly underwhelming that the most important change isn't specific to the Paladin class but anybody who thought Paladin would get or needed more is deluded.

I wasn't expecting changes to Bloodsworn, and I honestly can't see them increasing its use much, but they're still nice.

Rites were always going to be nerfed. Convocation could probably do with not being affected but I'm not sure I see the argument for Cleansing (except perhaps outside of your home city).

RE Inquisition for Paladins: Are you high? That would be ridiculously overpowered.

Really pretty much what I was expecting and I'm happy with them.

Wynedere

I'll preface this by saying that I might be wrong. This is just how these recent classleads have struck me. I also have nothing against Ashtan.

It seems to me that occies got huge buffs while those of the opposite faction got nothing but nerfs. Bloodsworn is more for bashing. The only pk buff they received is shared by numerous other classes, making it a general buff to everyone. 

Personally, I'll wait until priest classleads come out before passing judgement, but so far things are looking extremely lopsided.   :-?

Jarrod

I would think a good solution would be to reduce the cost of certain skills, like Cleansing. Cleansing is one of the very powerful rites, and putting it on the 'non-reduced' list would result in really annoying problems like existed before the change where you'd see rooms with rites forever and the devo user on a ship somewhere. Another possible solution would be to make the decay only occur if the devotionist isn't in or adjacent to the room, instead of just in. This would effectively allow normal use in small area duels, and allow a Devo user to maintain rites if they're dedicated to maintaining them.

Anti-infiltration abilities should not be 'fire and forget' like you seem to want. Mindnet, the most basic anti-infiltration, is already this way. Serpent as an infiltration class is also non-aligned.

I see nothing wrong with cleansing only lasting a minute if you lay it and leave. Cyrene especially is extremely well suited to anti-infiltration by Occultists and Necromancers. The entrance room has a different LoS room that -must- be entered to proceed into the city, meaning the first two rooms are OUT, WEST, and you have to go through both of them from the primary entrance. You could safely stand in the second room, be under no threat from the tunnel, and keep full duration rites. The biggest complaint seems to be that you can't do this and simultaneously sit at Centre Crossing.

If the adjacent change was put in, it would solve the same issue with Targossas as well, as you could sit N N E of gates, have cleansing/piety west of you, and maintain your near-perfect anti-Occultist/Necromancer infiltration without being threatened by Line of Sight attacks.

TL;DR Cleansing is too powerful to add to the list with Allsight and Pilgrimage, and there's no good argument to do so for at least Cyrene besides "it's inconvenient".

Melodie

To name the unaffected rites: Allsight, pilgrimage, well-being.

Everything else got a pretty big cut.

Vadimuses

The paladin changes are underwhelming. Nice that Bloodsworn got made useable - but that's about it.

Jarrod

Wynedere said:

I'll preface this by saying that I might be wrong. This is just how these recent classleads have struck me. I also have nothing against Ashtan.

It seems to me that occies got huge buffs while those of the opposite faction got nothing but nerfs. Bloodsworn is more for bashing. The only pk buff they received is shared by numerous other classes, making it a general buff to everyone. 

Personally, I'll wait until priest classleads come out before passing judgement, but so far things are looking extremely lopsided.   :-?

Occultists was setup to be a major overhaul lead session, the end result of which is a less-RNG based 1v1 offense (buff), the removal off Doppleganger Hangedman (nerf), the removal of area Doppleganger (nerf), but the addition of cross-border LoS Doppleganger (buff). I wouldn't consider the Occultist leads to be a 'huge buff', but a balancing of the very high effect (area control during raids) with the very low effects (unreliable RNG and high-entry cost PK). Also, what other faction changes? Druid is the singular other factional class that's been changed previously. Paladin wasn't nerfed. Sentinels, Sylvans, Priest all upcoming.

Sohl

Vadimuses said:

The paladin changes are underwhelming.

You should have posted more.

Ellodin

I feel like addiction is a bit silly, not only for the reason Santar said (ability to just do something like vardrax/curare or vardrax/kalmia someone repeatedly in an extended fight) but because eating the ginseng to cure addiction itself drains all the ginseng in your inventory.

Jovolo

Paladin classleads aren't comparable to Occultist classleads. You had one class with negligible 1v1 and then raiding utility beyond reasonable. The latter was removed, the former received a large buff due to a massive overhaul. Paladins have both good utility in raids and excellent 1v1, with defence through the sky, damage that will make you weep and a dsb that will send you packing. There was no necessity for a change to either, bar the long time coming quicker rite decay. Damnation is more of an enabler ability to other tactics, imo. Similar to vivisect. You won't die to either if you cure well enough (though it's arguable vivi is easier to prevent in the kill chain, due to the % chance of damnation), but doing that forces you to cure awkwardly, allowing your opponent to take advantage of that.

Priest is more comparable to old Occultist, and I am sure the classleads will be far more comparable between the two. Just wait and see.

Sothantos

Jarrod said:

Another possible solution would be to make the decay only occur if the devotionist isn't in or adjacent to the room, instead of just in. This would effectively allow normal use in small area duels, and allow a Devo user to maintain rites if they're dedicated to maintaining them.

I would suggest this for -all- of the timed abilities that have been changed thus far, including gravehands, vibes, harms, etc.

Jovolo

Vibes already decay very quickly, and are destroyed by several things, including instantly by an ally Magi. Making vibes decay x5 quicker with the magi out of the/not adjacent to them would be a bad, bad change.

(Wait, did this already happen? Vibes decaying faster? If so, shame on you @Makarios/ACC. Get me or at least effing Hasar an invite, already.)

Makarios

Ginseng wasn't meant to be hit by addiction, that's fixed now.

Sothantos

Jovolo said:

Vibes already decay very quickly, and are destroyed by several things, including instantly by an ally Magi. Making vibes decay x5 quicker with the magi out of the/not adjacent to them would be a bad, bad change. (Wait, did this already happen? Vibes decaying faster? If so, shame on you @Makarios/ACC. Get me or at least effing Hasar an invite, already.)

This already happened.

Jovolo

Wtf?

Zeon

Or you could read announce posts.

Liking Iocun's addiction classleads, very pleased to see it happen. Don't have a problem with people eating all their herbs. I don't think people should be entitled to carry as many herbs as they want in their rift as a just in case. Now you have something to lose by being overly cautious. 

Rangor

Guess the change was so smooth you didn't even notice Jovolo! 

Jovolo

I haven't and can't log in yet, why so hostile? It was a simple question.

Jarrod

What simple question? The part where you stated something shouldn't  be changed that has changed, or the part where you said wtf?

Edit: Also, how does not logging in recently affect your ability to know about things that were changed literally months ago?

Sothantos

It's been the case since magi classleads, which were... like... two-three months ago? Longer?

Jovolo

Those weren't questions.

Ellodin

Makarios said:

Ginseng wasn't meant to be hit by addiction, that's fixed now.

But...it isn't hit even if you have other ginseng afflictions and those are cured.  Just had vardrax/darkshade put on me, ate ginseng which got darkshade, and it didn't drain my ginseng.  Would like if that was the case, too.

Jovolo

Oh thank god. I thought you all meant it was changed SINCE then, as in this recent change.

But ugh, what is it with the sour fucking attitude, back off

Mishgul

Forums etc.

Kyrra

I read all news board posts through the website while on my phone at work. I also check and respond to messages this way. It might be worth noting that, messages on the website are listed with the most recent first.

Back on topic though, I find the changes to Vardrax to be pretty intriguing. So many people outrift herbs in advance and the idea of riftlocking being viable again seems pretty awesome.

Not much comment on rites but I was happy about reduced piety all over the place.

Zeon

Rites/harmonics/gravehands were brought in line with the decay faster when layer it out of the room change that hit vibes a few months back. 

No one has a sour attitude, people were just clarifying things for you (and calmly at that).

The reason you got so many responses so quickly is most likely due to the irony of your post simultaneously showing your misunderstanding of a mechanic of a class you currently play, while also asking to be allowed into the acc.

But again funny not sour. I don't see anyone jumping down your neck in the above posts.

Jovolo

Haha, sure. Me thinking that vibes were made to decay even faster when out of room and not being able to login and check is the same as me not understanding a class mechanic. Attitude totally wasn't sour with the sarcastic rhetorical questions, etc. Don't change the topic, though. I misunderstood something soth said, it was clarified.

Antonius

Earlier post should have said "except perhaps inside your home city" rather than outside. Was posting on my phone while getting ready for work so mixed it up a bit when rewording.

I'm not sure about Devotion costs on rites yet. A full set of rites is a pretty big chunk but it's not an unreasonable cost. Issues arise when you're riting large numbers of rooms; you only do that when you're entrenching or you're fighting somebody who refuses to fight in rites. The former is, obviously, something these changes were intended to stop you doing, and duration doesn't matter at all for the latter because they'll just avoid going back to rooms with rites in them.

I'd rather see devotion costs on things like bliss, resurrection and inspiration looked at, though I also don't think it's exactly dire right now.

Seems to be a lot of complaining without really taking time to see how things work out, which I don't understand at all.

Blujixapug

Jarrod said:

* ADDICTION affliction now causes the victim to consume all outrifted herbs/minerals of the specified type rather than just one. For example, if you have five bloodroot outrifted, the affliction would cause you to consume all five plants when you EAT BLOODROOT.
* VARDRAX (Venom) has been repurposed to give the addiction affliction.

Wynedere said:

It seems to me that occies got huge buffs while those of the opposite faction got nothing but nerfs.

Domination was changed away from ent-zerg to a more involved system. It wasn't a slew of buffs - though it seems that way, because of the 'oh, shiny, new!' factor - it was an overhaul. Plus they lost Pit.

Strata

Ellodin said:

I feel like addiction is a bit silly, not only for the reason Santar said (ability to just do something like vardrax/curare or vardrax/kalmia someone repeatedly in an extended fight) but because eating the ginseng to cure addiction itself drains all the ginseng in your inventory.

Also agreed with what Santar said regarding how addiction should work. Makes more sense to have it in-rift instead of consume them, and would make rift-locking possible in the arena perhaps.

Eating the ginseng to cure addiction ... but then the remaining is consumed ... Not sure. I think, if you cure addiction, it should only have eaten that one ginseng and not consume the rest. Anything else eaten is fair game, even if it's ginseng but does not cure addiction.

Antonius

My initial thought is all ginseng being consumed on non-addiction cures will make it very difficult to cure against a riftlock. I'll reserve final judgement until I've had a chance to play with it but I'm thinking that may be too strong a buff for knights.