Combat Logs

Tesha

Yes, you need level 5 burns to destroy. You should hold off on retardation unless they start ignoring legs/head. If they enter retardation with a broken head, and you can stick slickness long enough to staffstrike five times, you pretty much have a kill. You should be staffstriking water for this, to force them to choose between hypothermia+pummel or eventual concussion. Slickness always helps.

That's the general plan, but retardation is tricky because of the nature of the class. We don't have any access to abilities that have more than 1 effect per second of equilibrium (for example, deepfreeze is 2 effects (freeze+freeze) for 2.5s eq. Under that, there should be no reason anyone should ever die to a Magi, but we do have some tricks. Stupidity+pray for good rng, sleep+pray for good rng, inferno, pummel, a few others.

You can (and probably should) fight without retardation against a lot of classes, but some will just destroy you because your hindering takes momentum is slower than their kill momentum (artied occultists, for example - go straight into retardation). There's also two classes you just flatout shouldn't fight at all due to their design; apostate and priest. Your offense uses mana, apostate doesn't care about broken arms, bloodboil only cures one aff, reflection doesn't help you, and if you drop retardation, there is nothing you can do to stop sap as long as they aren't bad, because they don't use any endurance at all and they will auto-wake from sleep. 

Ernam

Yeah this is absurd, just sparred @Zulah for about 10 minutes in the arena, and it was nothing but impale after every single attack, and running literally non-stop because i was at 500-800 bleeding at all times.

He could have killed me about 5 times, and I barely got a chance to attack.

What's the solution?  Never use balance?

Note:  This has nothing to do with @Zulah, he's just using his class the "best" way he can.

Ernam

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/cef030ee

25 minutes later, ran out of WP from clotting.  Was impaled anywhere between 50 and 75 times in one spar.  Didn't use a single affliction the entire rampage.

If it wasn't for tumbling into wunjo/nairat, I would have died about 20 times over.  I feel really bad for anybody who has to fight against this who doesn't have wunjo/nairat.

Fight was basically a repetition of:
https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/89a59822

Until I ran out of WP.  On a double leg break (hardly difficult to achieve for BM), this is a guaranteed kill, without wunjo/nairat (and probably with it, if you just Evade/Softfocus through it).

Zulah

Yeah all those thrusts are me trying to learn serverside que. I suck with it. I over que things


The weapon that transfixes your gut makes leaving impossible.
5137h, 3948m, 25662e, 15978w cexkdb-100-
With a vicious snarl Shecks carves a merciless swathe through your steaming guts. You gurgle and
choke as he withdraws his dripping blade, glistening with gore.
227h, 3948m, 25662e, 15978w cexkdb-100-
You must be standing first.
227h, 3948m, 25662e, 15978w cexkdb-100-
You stand up.
227h, 3948m, 25662e, 15992w cexkdb-100-
Shecks backs away and eases off.
You slip away to the east and successfully evade your pursuers.
Bank of the Modi River (road).
Everything about you is obscured by a heavy fog. Well-travelled and worn thin, the granite path
twists sharply, winding its way to an eventual demise at the banks of the Modi River to the
northeast. The sounds of the river can be heard even from here, the peaceful rushing of the water
drifting through the air. Bees work tirelessly, winging back and forth through the wildflowers that
dot the abundant grasses to either side of the road. An imposing tower shimmers to the south, its
shape fluctuating grotesquely against the sky, casting a disturbing sense of the unnatural over the
otherwise serene path. A rune shaped like a butterfly has been sketched into the ground here
(nairat: transfix). A rune like an open eye has been sketched into the ground here (wunjo: cure
blind).
You see exits leading northeast, southeast, and west.
227h, 3768m, 25652e, 15956w cekdb-100-
 +++ BALANCE ++++
227h, 2448m, 25700e, 15689w cexkdb-100-
You slip away to the northeast and successfully evade your pursuers.
Muddy Modi River.
Everything about you is obscured by a heavy fog. The river flows wide and fast towards the southeast,
 soaking the dark soil of the banks and transforming it into a deep sludge. High reeds encroach upon
the blue waters, intermingling with green algae that float on the surface of the water. Tiny fish
dart between the reeds, feeding on the algae. Several young willow trees grow close to the banks,
too small to cast shade of any significance.
You see exits leading south and southwest.
227h, 3768m, 25652e, 15956w cekdb-100-
 +++ BALANCE ++++
227h, 2448m, 25690e, 15689w cexkdb-100-
620h, 2592m, 25696e, 15693w cexkdb-100-
You eat some irid moss.
You feel your health and mana replenished.
1077h, 2592m, 25696e, 15693w cekdb-100-
As Shin energy flows through your body, you feel a surge of strength.
5628h, 3204m, 25700e, 15708w cxkdb-

Exelethril

Evade is so obnoxious, even with star sigils.

Ernam

Ugh, I knew it had to hurt.  Forgot to Fury, so was my fault.

Ernam

Exelethril said:

Evade is so obnoxious, even with star sigils.

He didn't have to Evade at all, notice the:

Zulah said:

 +++ BALANCE ++++
227h, 2448m, 25690e, 15689w cexkdb-100-
620h, 2592m, 25696e, 15693w cexkdb-100-
You eat some irid moss.
You feel your health and mana replenished.
1077h, 2592m, 25696e, 15693w cekdb-100-
As Shin energy flows through your body, you feel a surge of strength.
5628h, 3204m, 25700e, 15708w cxkdb-

Right after he evaded.  Could have just done that from the get go.  It could be used prone back when I was BM too, is that still the case?

Note:  That was a torso break DSB with tons of pre-damage and 20 strength.  "Squishy" my ass.

Zulah

Ernam said:

Didn't use a single affliction the entire rampage.

I used afflictions to start with but you were gaining far too much momentum and damage against me I couldn't infuse too much because I was saving shin to survive your damage. Didn't want to chance a voidfist affliction setup because again my shin was priceless to survive against you.


1316h, 3958m, 23756e, 13723w cexkdb-92-
You take a drink from a Pavonian vial.
The elixir heals and soothes you.
2369h, 3958m, 23756e, 13723w cexkdb-92-
You eat some irid moss.
You feel your health and mana replenished.
2807h, 3958m, 23756e, 13723w cexkdb-92-
As Shin energy flows through your body, you feel a surge of strength.
5338h, 3958m, 23756e, 13714w cxkdb-

Eld

Zulah said:

Yeah all those thrusts are me trying to learn serverside que. I suck with it. I over que things


The weapon that transfixes your gut makes leaving impossible.
5137h, 3948m, 25662e, 15978w cexkdb-100-
With a vicious snarl Shecks carves a merciless swathe through your steaming guts. You gurgle and
choke as he withdraws his dripping blade, glistening with gore.
227h, 3948m, 25662e, 15978w cexkdb-100-
You must be standing first.
227h, 3948m, 25662e, 15978w cexkdb-100-
You stand up.
227h, 3948m, 25662e, 15992w cexkdb-100-
Shecks backs away and eases off.
You slip away to the east and successfully evade your pursuers.
Bank of the Modi River (road).
Everything about you is obscured by a heavy fog. Well-travelled and worn thin, the granite path
twists sharply, winding its way to an eventual demise at the banks of the Modi River to the
northeast. The sounds of the river can be heard even from here, the peaceful rushing of the water
drifting through the air. Bees work tirelessly, winging back and forth through the wildflowers that
dot the abundant grasses to either side of the road. An imposing tower shimmers to the south, its
shape fluctuating grotesquely against the sky, casting a disturbing sense of the unnatural over the
otherwise serene path. A rune shaped like a butterfly has been sketched into the ground here
(nairat: transfix). A rune like an open eye has been sketched into the ground here (wunjo: cure
blind).
You see exits leading northeast, southeast, and west.
227h, 3768m, 25652e, 15956w cekdb-100-
 +++ BALANCE ++++
227h, 2448m, 25700e, 15689w cexkdb-100-
You slip away to the northeast and successfully evade your pursuers.
Muddy Modi River.
Everything about you is obscured by a heavy fog. The river flows wide and fast towards the southeast,
 soaking the dark soil of the banks and transforming it into a deep sludge. High reeds encroach upon
the blue waters, intermingling with green algae that float on the surface of the water. Tiny fish
dart between the reeds, feeding on the algae. Several young willow trees grow close to the banks,
too small to cast shade of any significance.
You see exits leading south and southwest.
227h, 3768m, 25652e, 15956w cekdb-100-
 +++ BALANCE ++++
227h, 2448m, 25690e, 15689w cexkdb-100-
620h, 2592m, 25696e, 15693w cexkdb-100-
You eat some irid moss.
You feel your health and mana replenished.
1077h, 2592m, 25696e, 15693w cekdb-100-
As Shin energy flows through your body, you feel a surge of strength.
5628h, 3204m, 25700e, 15708w cxkdb-

What was your max health at that point? Health trans should max out at 50%, and you gained 4551 there... Even if you had level 3 regen and hit a regen tick and a boar tick on the same  (for another 13%), you shouldn't be able to get that much without like 7224 health.

Zulah

Eld said:

What was your max health at that point? Health trans should max out at 50%, and you gained 4551 there... Even if you had level 3 regen and hit a regen tick and a boar tick on the same  (for another 13%), you shouldn't be able to get that much without like 7224 health.

My health sip was gagged there. I removed gags to show. Usually my prompt is gagged too, yes I do have lvl3 regen/sipring

Eld

Ah, all right. I just assumed since the moss eat  included that any sips would be as well.

Zulah

Eld said:

Ah, all right. I just assumed since the moss eat  included that any sips would be as well.

I was removing gags half ass through the entire fight, since he told me during the fight he was running because he needed to post the fight before it was over.

Jovolo

Valdus said:

Jovolo said:

I already posted why the class population argument is dumb for class PvP strength. If you want to be dumb, go ahead and use it.

Just because you feel a certain way about something doesn't mean other people are 'dumb' for feeling a different way.

Call me some more names. It might make you feel better about whatever it is that crawled up your butt today.

It's not an opinion though, it's fact.

Cynlael

Not to be an ass, but if you firmly believe that "If it's OP, then more people would use it," then you are indeed dumb.

Protip: Not everyone plays what is OP, this isn't World of Warcraft. You'll find that, more often than not, people play a class that either a) They find fun, or b) It matches their character's RP.

Ernam

Seriously, almost got banned saying something less offensive.  Gotta tip-toe.

Valdus

Cynlael said:

Not to be an ass, but if you firmly believe that "If it's OP, then more people would use it," then you are indeed dumb.

Protip: Not everyone plays what is OP, this isn't World of Warcraft. You'll find that, more often than not, people play a class that either a) They find fun, or b) It matches their character's RP.

10 Years of IRE gaming experience says otherwise. If you think people don't play the most overpowered/easy thing because it's overpowered/easy, then nothing I say is going to be able to help sway you to a different frame of mind.

All in all, I'm not going to continue to defend my opinion here. It's obviously an exercise in futility.

Jovolo

Your opinion is objectively wrong. Evidence? See: Jester and Blademaster.

Nemutaur

Valdus said:

Cynlael said:

Not to be an ass, but if you firmly believe that "If it's OP, then more people would use it," then you are indeed dumb.

Protip: Not everyone plays what is OP, this isn't World of Warcraft. You'll find that, more often than not, people play a class that either a) They find fun, or b) It matches their character's RP.

10 Years of IRE gaming experience says otherwise. If you think people don't play the most overpowered/easy thing because it's overpowered/easy, then nothing I say is going to be able to help sway you to a different frame of mind.

All in all, I'm not going to continue to defend my opinion here. It's obviously an exercise in futility.

Overpowered and easy does not make it fun. There's three factors I can think of that limit people on changing to OP classes:

1) playing with people they like for example in houses. That will change with the House Ren. so I guess this won't hold true in 4-6 months.

2) Cost. It is not cheap to re-trans all class skills.

3) Playstyle: Jester suffers from this one the most, people just hate the way they hoot and jump about even if it is damn powerful.

Zulah

Nemutaur said:

2) Cost. It is not cheap to re-trans all class skills.

This. I actually would change if I wasn't taking a hit on a lvl3 band and skills. I find BM to be rather simplistic and uninteresting. To quote @Herenicus I enjoy RP flavor skills. Always enjoyed Naga for that reason. BM was fitting with my Pirate RP life with PoM so I took it as a class to look more "swashbuckling" without going bard.

Xinna

Zulah said:

Nemutaur said:

2) Cost. It is not cheap to re-trans all class skills.

This. I actually would change if I wasn't taking a hit on a lvl3 band and skills. I find BM to be rather simplistic and uninteresting. To quote @Herenicus I enjoy RP flavor skills. Always enjoyed Naga for that reason. BM was fitting with my Pirate RP life with PoM so I took it as a class to look more "swashbuckling" without going bard.

But bard is where it's at!

And yeah, there's both RP style and just fighting style. Each class is played differently and people tend to find certain combat styles that they just enjoy more than others. I like truelocking. Never last long playing a class that can't truelock. It's just my style. Some people like limb prep and others don't. Some people like momentum and others don't. Some people really want to have ranged attacks, or really want to have escape abilities for group combat, or really want to be a super tank in group combat. BM has some of these things, but not all, so it's not going to be everyone's favorite class.

Also, completely contrary to what some people argue, I think sometimes, at least, a class being too OP -makes- it unpopular. No one wants to be that person who is known as "only being good because his/her class is unstoppable." And some classes just make you FEEL lame when you play them to their full potential (see: jester).

Dracen

I play a 2h knight because that's what I designed my character to be, YEARS ago. But I absolutely loved my time as Serpent. But even ICly, people couldn't explain that change, so I went back to runie, because it fit better.

Also, I've noticed over about a decade of Achaea, OP isn't chosen by top-tier because of what it is. It doesn't show as much "skill" (No offense to BMs and Jesters) and as such, the tops won't want it. They like challenging wins/classes/fights.

Ernam

My impression of what makes classes popular is typically stat scaling.  See: Monk, Runewarden, old Magi, occultist - four of the most popular classes ever, and four of the highest stat-scaling classes out there.

Caladbolg

Dracen said:

I play a 2h knight because that's what I designed my character to be, YEARS ago. But I absolutely loved my time as Serpent. But even ICly, people couldn't explain that change, so I went back to runie, because it fit better.

Also, I've noticed over about a decade of Achaea, OP isn't chosen by top-tier because of what it is. It doesn't show as much "skill" (No offense to BMs and Jesters) and as such, the tops won't want it. They like challenging wins/classes/fights.

I don't think OP is a term for classes in general in Achaea anymore, Honestly the player base and Admins as of late have done an amazing job in Balancing the combat scene out.

While some classes may suck in certain area's they generally make up those for that in other area's.

Knights/Magi/Shaman/whatever else got new skills Maybe able to be labeled OP Right now.

(I fought Mizik and I regretted it even after I fixed my targeting script)

It's generally A. I don't know what i'm doing while fighting this class, or B. They need to be given the time to be nerfed down.

But Personally, not calling my self a top tier, but I pick classes because I think, man im bored of this class I think x class would be better for what I want to do with my life (like honestly picking Paladin because no one has been using damnation the first time and then feeling the need to use damnation with affliction based knight the second)

Ernam said:

My impression of what makes classes popular is typically stat scaling.  See: Monk, Runewarden, old Magi, occultist - four of the most popular classes ever, and four of the highest stat-scaling classes out there.

I think personally the most popular classes are generally based on fun factor.
While granted being powerful does add to fun factor Monk and Runewarden were very simple classes to play (at least to me) and not lack luster in any area of the game.

Magi has retardation, if you master retardation you are going to win against a huge factor of the player base who can't fight in it, even to the point of 7v1 (Saw Terra do it once)

While old occultist was an extremely fun class when I played it. New Occultist just seems like Apostate done right.

Personally though, I think Infernal and Paladin were less played than runewarden before because of how powerful runeblades was in general, not to throw in the factional restrictions.

Ernam

Caladbolg said:

Personally though, I think Infernal and Paladin were less played than runewarden before because of how powerful runeblades was in general, not to throw in the factional restrictions.

Yeah I actually really badly wanted to go Paladin (on Shecks), but couldn't do it because of RP =(.

Ernam

Ernam said:

[@Valdus]
Your logic has lessened my respect for the capabilities of the human mind.

In retrospect, I'm really sorry for this comment.  A difference in opinions doesn't justify slinging insults.  

Valdus

I also apologize if my words insulted you. @Ernam

Khorus

A) Blademaster OP - Not enough good players rolling deep with it.

Runewardens are not as OP as they were now that runes dont effect weapon stats, we need a change to runelore now that Shamans have spiritlore, and now that weapons aren't effected. Not to mention that we're the only universally available knight class, which means we get nothing exclusive. Not complaining about our universal availability, more upset that I can't be an Infernal

Morthif

Khorus said:

A) Blademaster OP - Not enough good players rolling deep with it.

Runewardens are not as OP as they were now that runes dont effect weapon stats, we need a change to runelore now that Shamans have spiritlore, and now that weapons aren't effected. Not to mention that we're the only universally available knight class, which means we get nothing exclusive. Not complaining about our universal availability, more upset that I can't be an Infernal

Fight @Mizik or @Nemutaur . runies doing just fine.

Caladbolg

Ernam said:

Exelethril said:

Evade is so obnoxious, even with star sigils.

He didn't have to Evade at all, notice the:

Zulah said:

 +++ BALANCE ++++
227h, 2448m, 25690e, 15689w cexkdb-100-
620h, 2592m, 25696e, 15693w cexkdb-100-
You eat some irid moss.
You feel your health and mana replenished.
1077h, 2592m, 25696e, 15693w cekdb-100-
As Shin energy flows through your body, you feel a surge of strength.
5628h, 3204m, 25700e, 15708w cxkdb-

Right after he evaded.  Could have just done that from the get go.  It could be used prone back when I was BM too, is that still the case?

Note:  That was a torso break DSB with tons of pre-damage and 20 strength.  "Squishy" my ass.

Kinda late to the party but was trying to explain to someone how to fight Zulah and saw this, Bm makes Paladin feel squishy with mir stance/Shin health and you could still shin heal while prone earlier this week before I went Paladin.

Actually it's safer to use it while prone in that situation although i've been dormant but dsb used to give massive bleed. and we all know that bleed ticks on around a 5.45ish world timer, although im assuming that's where all his mana went right before the evade.

Could have shin healthed directly after the dsb and laughed at your attempts to kill him with finishers.

Daeir said:

Everybody but Mizik should probably shut up about BM.

I'd trust him, and only him, to make changes to the class that would be fair. The rest of you are just bad.

----

That just hurts bro

Jovolo

Daeir often hops onto the bandwagon, it's ok. It's obvious that aspects of the class are imbalanced and they will be fixed eventually.