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The Next Achaea Class

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  • ElcryionElcryion Member Posts: 9
    edited June 2014

    I currently play a Shaman, and I'm all for Shaman being Hashan's factional class. Go go Dark Spirits go!

    For the Shamans who don't want to go Hashan but want to stay Shaman: see Devotionists who don't want to go Targossas and Necromancers who don't want to go Mhaldor. Bonus: Occultists who don't want to join the House.

    It wouldn't be too far-fetched to turn Shamans into a Night faction class. The class help file already says 'they embrace darkness more readily'. All the class needs is a little push. It can be argued that the same goes for Alchemists, due to the involvement of Twilight in the class's opening event.


    Here we go, proper quotes from HELP CLASS SHAMAN:

    "Drawing their strength from the darker side of mysticism, the class of Shamans is not inherently aligned with any ethos. However, they tend to draw those who embrace the secrets of the shadows more readily than the light."


  • AchimrstAchimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    Elcryion said:

    I currently play a Shaman, and I'm all for Shaman being Hashan's factional class. Go go Dark Spirits go!

    For the Shamans who don't want to go Hashan but want to stay Shaman: see Devotionists who don't want to go Targossas and Necromancers who don't want to go Mhaldor. Bonus: Occultists who don't want to join the House.

    It wouldn't be too far-fetched to turn Shamans into a Night faction class. The class help file already says 'they embrace darkness more readily'. All the class needs is a little push. It can be argued that the same goes for Alchemists, due to the involvement of Twilight in the class's opening event.


    Here we go, proper quotes from HELP CLASS SHAMAN:

    "Drawing their strength from the darker side of mysticism, the class of Shamans is not inherently aligned with any ethos. However, they tend to draw those who embrace the secrets of the shadows more readily than the light."


    How long have you been a Shaman? If you would look back we have been over the darker side of mysticism before... Shadows are not the dark side of mysticism IMO, and they don't really embrace shadows...where did you get that from?

  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited June 2014
    Elcryion said:

    I currently play a Shaman, and I'm all for Shaman being Hashan's factional class. Go go Dark Spirits go!

    For the Shamans who don't want to go Hashan but want to stay Shaman: see Devotionists who don't want to go Targossas and Necromancers who don't want to go Mhaldor. Bonus: Occultists who don't want to join the House.

    It wouldn't be too far-fetched to turn Shamans into a Night faction class. The class help file already says 'they embrace darkness more readily'. All the class needs is a little push. It can be argued that the same goes for Alchemists, due to the involvement of Twilight in the class's opening event.


    Here we go, proper quotes from HELP CLASS SHAMAN:

    "Drawing their strength from the darker side of mysticism, the class of Shamans is not inherently aligned with any ethos. However, they tend to draw those who embrace the secrets of the shadows more readily than the light."


    I'm not going to re-hash the entire argument that has already been made that the majority of shamans reside outside Hashan. It's been stated and re-stated already in the House Renaissance thread. I only bring it up here and now to draw the distinction between Devotionalists and Necromancers, which do/did already reside in a larger majority in their respective cities. 

    Dark spirits like the wlo (the spirits the Spirit Walkers interact with) are only one kind of spirit in Achaea. Shamans, and anyone who roleplays a shamanic persona (that's right! you don't have to take the class to be a ROLEPLAYED practitioner and interact with spirits) in the game, do not necessarily have anything to do with Darkness. 

    Are forest spirits, water spirits, nightmare spirits, or any of the other kind of known spirits in any way "Dark" for example? No. 

    Are the shaman of Aran'riod, Kamleikan, Aerathian Fall, or any other village in Achaea embracing "Darkness" because they have a shamanic leader or practitioner? No. 

    The only denizen shamanic practitioners that even remotely align with Darkness might be the ogre, orc and buckawn witchdoctors because of their dabbling in necromancy. I only say this because of the Thoth/Twilight conflict, etc. by the way. It's not intended to start an argument about whether Twilight or Darkness has anything to do with death magicks IC.

    That is why it is absolutely farfetched for shamans to become such a factional class. 

    The darker side of Mysticism does not equal Darkness. It is a way of phrasing that those who take the profession of shamanism as a class can call upon the spirit to curse as well as heal others -- but roleplay-wise curses and such is probably more often experienced as a means of self-defense, not an aggressiveness or eagerness for Darkness or anything related to it. 

    One of the great things about being a shaman or jester is that you can really conceptualize your character any way you want to. I'm a bit concerned about the minimizing of that if either class were to gain a factionalized nature. 

    What really confuses me about the concept of Night is that, at least on these forums, it is almost solely focused at the moment on Darkness. Yes, the night is dark and full of terrors (Game of Thrones, yay!) but it also illuminated by the Moon and enlightened by Dreams. If the current arrangement of House patrons continues (a member of the former Supernal Triad each patroning one of the Houses), I'd hope that the City could do more than focus on one aspect of the theme. 

    I credit @Vayne and @Eiredhel for the good things going on with Hashan in this vein already. 

    AchimrstShirszaeJonathin
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,162 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Elcryion said:

    I currently play a Shaman, and I'm all for Shaman being Hashan's factional class. Go go Dark Spirits go!

    For the Shamans who don't want to go Hashan but want to stay Shaman: see Devotionists who don't want to go Targossas and Necromancers who don't want to go Mhaldor. Bonus: Occultists who don't want to join the House.

    It wouldn't be too far-fetched to turn Shamans into a Night faction class. The class help file already says 'they embrace darkness more readily'. All the class needs is a little push. It can be argued that the same goes for Alchemists, due to the involvement of Twilight in the class's opening event.


    Here we go, proper quotes from HELP CLASS SHAMAN:

    "Drawing their strength from the darker side of mysticism, the class of Shamans is not inherently aligned with any ethos. However, they tend to draw those who embrace the secrets of the shadows more readily than the light."


    It actually would be different, because all those classes you mentioned have very definitive ties to the factions that are in no way comparable to whatever shaman currently has in either skill or fluff that might tie it to Darkness.  Sure, they could be 'pushed' . But anything could be 'pushed' in whatever direction, so thats not saying much. 

    I just honestly think if the time ever comes, Alchemist is in a better position to be swooped. The institute is there, the associations with the moon and astronomy, etc... Whatever Shaman could provide is scant in comparison.  

    Personally, I am of the opinion that if they are to be given a factional class, it should be a new one, and not any of the pre-existing ones. Be them shaman, serpents, or alchemists. 

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

    AchimrstBluef
  • JacenJacen Member Posts: 2,304 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    +1 for Alchemists for Hashan. Space is cool as shit.

    image
    ShirszaeAchimrstBluefWei
  • KyrraKyrra Sanctum of the SkyMember Posts: 4,838 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    Looks like a camel. It's a white camel. Oh.. @Iocun

    (D.M.A.): Cooper says, "Kyrra is either the most innocent person in the world, or the girl who uses the most innuendo seemingly unintentionally but really on purpose."

    JosoulIocunAsmodron
  • SaralynneSaralynne CyreneMember Posts: 25 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    I'm not sure if classes like these have been suggested yet, as I didn't read through the whole thread. I first started MUDs back in '96, when I had to use AOL to get online, and in that game, there was a few classes I really just loved.  One was the Empath working with Life magic, which through touching you, and their magic, they could transfer wounds from you to them, cure poisons, diseases, all by taking your pain, and magically curing their own bodies. The nature of their magic actually forbade them from ever entering conflict, because if they harmed a living thing it would damage their ability to connect with others' lifeforce, and they gained skills and xp through practicing their arts. Not sure if such a class would be useful in Achaea, with all the insta-cures with minerals and herbs, and the elixirs/tonics and so on, but I really loved it. 

    Another class I loved in that game, was the Moon Mage. Scholars with a high focus on magic, they used moonlight, astronomy, fortune telling with bones and other forms of mystical divination to give bonuses to adventurers, or curse them depending on the alignment of the stars and the moons, create moongates for travel and could call down moonbeams, fixed to the room they cast it, and then later call down another beam from whichever of the three moons they used to cast it to ride a beam of moonlight back to their original one.  They could summon moonblades into their hands, wrap themselves in starlight and shadow and disappear, call down a focused beam of moonlight to burn their enemies at range, just so many unique possibilities.

    My time, and money, is invested in Achaea now, though, and as much as I enjoyed that game from so long ago, I've not yet run across a game that had a similar class.  Perhaps Achaea might be a good place for one of those?
    image
  • AddamaAddama Member Posts: 947 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Saralynne said:
    The nature of their magic actually forbade them from ever entering conflict
    Ew, an explicitly non-comm class.
    ~Kresslack's obsession~
  • DaslinDaslin The place with the oxygenMember Posts: 2,492 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    lol. Saralynne has played DragonRealms. Also. This thread only serves to gain us Gunslingers.
    AchimrstOmiHerenicus
  • HerenicusHerenicus The Western FrontMember Posts: 1,734 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    She has forgotten the face of her father :(
    TreyTaelSynbios
  • KakotasKakotas Member Posts: 264 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Honestly with whats left... Summoner class would be cool interesting (could even be factional with different summonings based on faction), Fighter class is way overdue (shield and Sword) (It should replace paladin class as well in the current RP base or Chivalry needs it's name and ethos changed entirely from the ground up). Then perhaps a riding class one that integrates riding and maybe lances and spears as primaries? That would be a cool class I always thought. (could be slightly elvish like LOTR halberds).
    (Blades of Valour): He just has that Synbios Swagger enough said.
    (Blades of Valour): Draekar says: "Synbios if sunbeams sparkle off that I'll kill you where you stand."

    (Party) Halos says, "Disbar?"
    (Party) Draekar says, "You know here we have disbar."
    (Party) Draekar says, "And over there we have datbar."
  • MalornMalorn Member Posts: 77 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited November 2014
    Kakotas said:
    Honestly with whats left... Summoner class would be cool interesting (could even be factional with different summonings based on faction), Fighter class is way overdue (shield and Sword) (It should replace paladin class as well in the current RP base or Chivalry needs it's name and ethos changed entirely from the ground up). Then perhaps a riding class one that integrates riding and maybe lances and spears as primaries? That would be a cool class I always thought. (could be slightly elvish like LOTR halberds).
    Sword and shield are coming with knight changes to every knight class, as an option anyway.

    Occultists are already factional summoners, of a sort and apostates to a lesser extent, though I agree another (more neutral) summoner class of some sort might be interesting.
    Kakotas
  • KakotasKakotas Member Posts: 264 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Then lets please work on this ethos. You aught to have a choice between a fighter path (IE targossas -no honor just a fighter, and a Knight path that is honor bound (more of an RP thing but based on a high clan controlled by Knights), that part of things I think has always been interesting and a part of the game that's worth at least a half hearted attempt to save).
    (Blades of Valour): He just has that Synbios Swagger enough said.
    (Blades of Valour): Draekar says: "Synbios if sunbeams sparkle off that I'll kill you where you stand."

    (Party) Halos says, "Disbar?"
    (Party) Draekar says, "You know here we have disbar."
    (Party) Draekar says, "And over there we have datbar."
  • ErnamErnam Member Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean

    This whole "Targossians have no honor" thing is the biggest sham.

    Cool ideas though.

    "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


          Manda  |  Godzilla  |  SLC
      1. TaelTael Member Posts: 1,197 @ - Epic Achaean
        edited November 2014
        That choice already exists.

        Nothing stops you from playing a knight that isn't honour-bound. That may have been true in days of yore when guilds controlled people's access to skills, but you've been able to play a no-honour-just-a-fighter or to adhere to a code of honor for a long time now. And virtually anywhere you go in the game, you can find an organisation that will support you in either capacity.

        Think about knights in Achaea like knights in A Song of Ice and Fire. There are people who are not even a little bit concerned with honour who are called "knights". And there is a distinction between them and "true knights". That is roughly the same situation that has existed in Achaea for literally years. Hell, it's existed pretty much since the beginning - even when guilds had control over skills and demanded that people play knights as honourable, in most of the guilds you weren't really a "knight" until you progressed very, very far into the guild and were actually knighted (and thus granted permission to bear the title Sir). In Achaea, the same is essentially true for Chivalry - it's the name of a skillset shared by most of what other fictional settings might call "fighters" - it's just that most fighters in Achaea, in addition to learning to use swords and wear armour, also learn about falconry, venoms, and archery. This doesn't mean that the skill "Chivalry" implies a solid connection to the real-world concept of chivalry - and this is even explicitly pointed out in the learning messages for chivalry, with respect to venoms.

        In other words, the "ethos" issue you bring up has already been solved. That's already how things are.
      2. AchillesAchilles Los AngelesMember Posts: 2,516 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        Kakotas said:
        Then lets please work on this ethos. You aught to have a choice between a fighter path (IE targossas -no honor just a fighter, and a Knight path that is honor bound (more of an RP thing but based on a high clan controlled by Knights), that part of things I think has always been interesting and a part of the game that's worth at least a half hearted attempt to save).
        This is incorrect, you can choose to a honorable Targossas knight as much as possible but you can't act honorably in place of your sworn duty (which is fealty to the Bloodsworn).  This was to avoid the trappings of Shallam where you could be at odds with yourself on multiple levels between blood family, order, city relations, marriage, house, knighthood etc etc.  The overarching emphasis in Targossas is duty to the Bloodsworn, with all citizens falling under their ideology whether in the order, preorders or one of the houses.

        Personally if there is to be a relaunch of "Knighthood" in Achaea, I would want them to be bound specifically to an order.  I do that now, being a Knight of the Aarash Kheyr which could just as easily be Knight of Lady Aurora.  She could then lay down the groundwork how she wants her knights to behave (also add Order Deathsights!).  Sartan could lay down his own framework of how his knights should behave.  Would be similar to each order having champion except each order can have more than one.  Would probably limit it to just knight classes however (flexible on this depending how multi-class looks).  
        image
        Ernam
      3. ErnamErnam Member Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
        edited November 2014
         
        Not to continue the derail (would make a good thread), but Knighthood Reboot can't exist with Houses as they are now.  Only way it ever worked was when Guilds/Houses could regulate class RP.  With every house in the game allowing knights, there's no way every single House is going to both monitor and forcibly maintain every person that decides to put "Sir" in their prefix (looking at you, @Vicious).

        (I mean technically it's possible, it just isn't going to happen)

        Not saying I wouldn't love to see it happen, though.  I just think the strict class-based RP that used to exist is totally gone from the game, and it'd be a miracle to get every single House in the game to get onboard with it, and enforce it, particularly since many House's RP conflicts with it.

        @Achilles - your idea rocks though.  If it were run by Patrons, or high-ranking order members, it'd probably have a much better chance at success.

        "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


              Manda  |  Godzilla  |  SLC
          1. TreyTrey Member Posts: 4,740 @@ - Legendary Achaean
            @Ernam, for someone wanting to escape the trappings of your prior reputation, you're quick to jump on everyone else. @Vicious didn't put anything anywhere. He tightened up, handled his business appropriately and was -asked- to come back. I don't know a single one of us that regrets that decision..


            You, on the other hand, are asking people to take you seriously with all visible evidence pointing to you continuing to act like a twat. Maybe look at your own shit before bringing up other people's.  Just a thought.

            ShirszaeTael
          2. ErnamErnam Member Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
            edited November 2014

            I'm not in his House, and I don't know what you guys assume he does when he's not sitting in guardhouse, but I'm the one that's getting ganked because my character "doesn't deserve Honor, because I'm a heathen".

            P sure that's not how it works.

            And yeah, you're probably right.  I should probably kiss more ass if I want to be popular.

            "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


                  Manda  |  Godzilla  |  SLC
                Trey
              1. ErnamErnam Member Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean

                No I'm not, this got de-railed the second @Trey responded to my on-topic post with his own post about what a jerk I am (which, amazingly, was followed by another insult).

                I'm just going to back away before it gets any worse.

                "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


                      Manda  |  Godzilla  |  SLC
                    Trey
                  1. JhuiJhui Member Posts: 1,958 @@ - Legendary Achaean
                    we'll see
                    image
                    Trey
                  2. AddamaAddama Member Posts: 947 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
                    And what is "honor" anyway?  Warning your opponent before you engage them?  Never ganking?  Never fighting more than 1:1 ratio? 

                    Why do we need a class, or a set of classes, solely bent on being more "honorable" than others?

                    Why would you assume that any class is or is not honor bound, for that matter?  Isn't that a decision made by the player behind the character behind the class, rather than an RP assumption of the class itself?
                    ~Kresslack's obsession~
                  3. KakotasKakotas Member Posts: 264 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
                    edited November 2014
                    Achilles said:
                    Kakotas said:
                    Then lets please work on this ethos. You aught to have a choice between a fighter path (IE targossas -no honor just a fighter, and a Knight path that is honor bound (more of an RP thing but based on a high clan controlled by Knights), that part of things I think has always been interesting and a part of the game that's worth at least a half hearted attempt to save).
                    This is incorrect, you can choose to a honorable Targossas knight as much as possible but you can't act honorably in place of your sworn duty (which is fealty to the Bloodsworn).  This was to avoid the trappings of Shallam where you could be at odds with yourself on multiple levels between blood family, order, city relations, marriage, house, knighthood etc etc.  The overarching emphasis in Targossas is duty to the Bloodsworn, with all citizens falling under their ideology whether in the order, preorders or one of the houses.

                    Personally if there is to be a relaunch of "Knighthood" in Achaea, I would want them to be bound specifically to an order.  I do that now, being a Knight of the Aarash Kheyr which could just as easily be Knight of Lady Aurora.  She could then lay down the groundwork how she wants her knights to behave (also add Order Deathsights!).  Sartan could lay down his own framework of how his knights should behave.  Would be similar to each order having champion except each order can have more than one.  Would probably limit it to just knight classes however (flexible on this depending how multi-class looks).  
                    that would work but it would have to be a neutral order much more like knights were in the first place back in Gawain's days. Penth would have been the ideal one once he gave up the essence of light and righteousness because Honor was the main other component to the order maybe fighting a losing battle on that one but we even had some Mhaldorians in pre-order at points because of the stance on honor. As it is I would say other options would be Phaestean in origin because of the share in forging but that again depends on multiclass. I could understand and appreciate factional differences and of course orders would have further different requirements (like it was early on if you had the privilege to read the original posts in the Guild) thus all knights would be knights but how they act beyond honor, chivalry, and decorum is entirely up to factional differences.

                    Multiclass brings up an interesting conundrum in the whole system but I would still say it would be bound to those of primary Knight class. Secondary classes would add to the knightly order (you would have rangers who were knight/forestal (possibly?), or knightly mages etc. For them it would be a matter of adding knowledge and skill to become a more well rounded and refined knight. It just would depend on how it all worked.

                    @achilles and as for the incorrectness then someone seriously needs to work on sermons I've heard 3 that at best were quite poorly worded and at worse were heresy to someone who is honorbound. (Aodfionns passes but just barely and mostly because honor wasn't mentioned as such).

                    anyways enough with the derail back on topic.
                    (Blades of Valour): He just has that Synbios Swagger enough said.
                    (Blades of Valour): Draekar says: "Synbios if sunbeams sparkle off that I'll kill you where you stand."

                    (Party) Halos says, "Disbar?"
                    (Party) Draekar says, "You know here we have disbar."
                    (Party) Draekar says, "And over there we have datbar."
                  4. KlendathuKlendathu Eye of the StormMember Posts: 3,178 @@ - Legendary Achaean
                    To be slightly contentious, why should only those chosing a class the skillset Chivalry be the only ones considered to be able to be knights (in the sense of being honourable, not mechanically)? Ashtan had a clan for a while promoting honour and other knightly attributes, and it wasn't a pre-requisite to be one of the knight classes to gain the status of knight.

                    Tharos, the Announcer of Delos shouts, "It's near the end of the egghunt and I still haven't figured out how to pronounce Clean-dat-hoo."
                    TaelDaslinAzelay
                  5. AmarillysAmarillys Member Posts: 797 @ - Epic Achaean
                    The Order of Thurisaz in Cyrene accepts all classes and, if I understand correctly, work as a way to attain Knighthood in the city. They originally only allowed Knight classes, I think, but enough people complained when they asked for a favor from the city that they ended up opening to everyone.

                    At least that's how I understand it went. I was brand new when everything was happening, so to say I was confused about a lot of it is an understatement. To say I'm not still rather brand new is probably a lie, too... I have so much to learn >_<



                    Tharvis
                  6. TharvisTharvis The Land of Beer and Chocolate!Member Posts: 3,107 @@ - Legendary Achaean
                    Amarillys said:
                    The Order of Thurisaz in Cyrene accepts all classes and, if I understand correctly, work as a way to attain Knighthood in the city. They originally only allowed Knight classes, I think, but enough people complained when they asked for a favor from the city that they ended up opening to everyone.

                    At least that's how I understand it went. I was brand new when everything was happening, so to say I was confused about a lot of it is an understatement. To say I'm not still rather brand new is probably a lie, too... I have so much to learn >_<
                    I've played this game for what, 8 years now? And there's still hasn't been a day where I haven't gone "Oh, hey, didn't know that yet"
                    Aurora says, "Tharvis, why are you always breaking things?!"
                    Artemis says, "You are so high maintenance, Tharvis, gosh."
                    Tecton says, "It's still your fault, Tharvis."

                    ShirszaeAmarillys
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