No more credits?

Katzchen

Sylvance said:

Nyboe said:

Just checked about 15 of the posters in the last two pages and all of them are tri trans or better.

No point in arguing. I am pretty much alone. If I was tri-trans I too would probably want to hold my power in the game by saying stuff like "Its easy to make 40k gold an hour" or "you don't have to buy credits you can just go around enjoying fishing/questing/roleplaying or running for politics as a piss weak toon and still have fun."

And I'm guessing that those 15 weren't 'tri trans or better' when they had as few hours of game time racked up as I'm guessing you have based on some of what you're posting.  Did you check age as well, or just might before you made this pretty outrageous comment?

Even age isn't that much to go off. Katzchen is 50 years old. I have spent 106 days playing her. That is a heck of a lot for 50. Yes I've bought credits, most of my lessons, soulpiercers, tailoring license, and my ship before I sold it, and whatever I spent that gold on all came from bought credits, but I've also gotten a credit prize for placing in a great hunt, and earned millions of gold in game.

Nyboe

Nellaundra said:

As for the PvP thing, I literally just spent around 100~ credits for a very -small- wedding solely for IC reasons.  Would I have done better in combat if I had put them towards that?  Undoubtedly.  Would I have been happier?  Hell no.  I've still got some more to spend solely for this.

Roleplay trumps mechanics every single time.

Really? Okay this is new to me. I thought weddings in the game were free?

Sena

Just getting married is free, but having items created/customised and other flavour things that are nice but not necessary aren't free.

In my case, the total cost was 225 credits, to make the wedding rings reset and add a custom reaction on one.

Drauka

What was this thread about anyways?

Nim

The issue that you stop getting credits at level 70, that the lessons you get just from leveling don't reach you to a basic PVP-ready state, and that in order to get into such a state, you have to pay money/grind gold. Plus, potential solutions to the issue, and also a lot of people saying the issue isn't actually a problem.

Averi

@Drauka

Whether bacon ice cream is a good idea or a terrible one. 

Not really... but it might as well be...

Drauka

Drauka

One more

Nim

@Drauka: So what?

Constructive complaints are just about the nicest thing you could do to a company. You're taking the time out of your life to tell them how they could improve their business, and thus potentially get more profit from you and people with similar opinions to you in the future.

I'd say discussing ways of making Achaea more appealing, so that it thus gets more credit sales, on the forum paid by those credit sales, is probably the best thing that forum could do.

That said, I should probably stop discussing this. I'm finding myself personally insulted by all of the "shut up, you're entitled" posts, so I'm out.

Orklanishkal

@Nim I agree with your latest post, but it just strikes a lot of people as "entitled" or whatever to ask for more freebies in a for-profit game that's already largely free and provides a lot of entertainment at no required cost. But yeah, feedback is probably helpful for IRE.

Sherazad

@Nim: I don't think @Drauka means bad. It's just, there's not really much to do when it all boils down to IRE being the only ones who can put a number on how their decisions affect newbie retention. I think previous posts already covered the important questions tho. 

Drauka

There is a difference between constructive complaints which Sarapis has already responded to, and beating a dead horse. We get it, 8 pages of people going around on the same thing. It's all been said.

Again, newbie retention is a priority, but anyone stating reasons why they may leave is all speculation at this point, no matter how many people here agree with you.

I'm sure money is pretty tight right now for IRE, but from running a business myself, it's difficult to just modify a reliable source of income for the company on a speculation of what may be affecting new user retention. It's a game to us, but it's still a business.

Also, lighten up. Jeez, life is too short.

Teg

Nizaris said:

@Teg: I'm sorry that you feel that way. I don't know who you are, or what your background is, but I can tell you this as someone who works in sales: having to establish value before discussion of cost is pretty standard. Especially when your product is of intangible benefit. If I led off each one of my sales demos with the cost instead of with the benefit, I would never sell anything; people would stop listening pretty quickly.

I personally recommend to everyone that I know that they spend at least some time working in a true sales profession. I'm not talking working as a clerk or stocker in some place like Wal-Mart; I'm talking a profession where your job is to persuade people to part with their money. Sales is an extremely valuable skillset and knowledge base to have: it gains you business acumen, as well as experience in the art of persuasion, which is handy in both business and personal endeavours. Hell, I found that the experience helped me when I was dating.

I'm not questioning how effective the tactic is, I'm questioning how honest it is, the two things are completely separate issues. 

The issue isn't you not telling the customer how much the product cost before establishing value, the issue is that you are also telling everyone else not to mention the fact the product cost money as well. I don't have a problem with you or IRE not telling the customer about credits before a certain point. I have a problem with telling other people not to do it.

Teg

Kyrra said:

I find that's very true when working in real estate. I might be strictly administration but part of handling marketing involves being able to sell a product, knowing everything about and answering all queries. Price ranges are good for knowing what someone's budget is but ultimately it's about what you're selling and not the price tag attached to it.

Would you find it honest to ban everyone else from telling the buyer what the market price for houses are?

Teg

Tesha said:

Regarding how difficult it is to tri-trans without purchasing credits, this is the reason I started teaching my first protege about quests the moment she was ready to understand them. I did 50-65ish in Ulangi, then someone showed me Xhaiden Dale, Inbhir Ness is an easy 2250 gold in just over a minute... the amount of gold you can make is astounding if you have the time/energy for it. 150k gold in a day was not really difficult for me if I had the quests, 

It is possible. Really. I have purchased credits and I have elite now, but I transcended curses and got my tailoring license without purchasing credits, Just stick it out, and prod your mentor for help. They are there for this kind of thing, and if they do not know how to help you, look for someone who can (hi!). It is really easy to get discouraged, but gold generation is really not that hard once you figure things out.

Inbhir Ness is something like that if nobody cleared it out and then respawn time is like >1 hour IIRC, I know this because on the average my inbhir runs was ~20k/IRL day. Of course you -could- trans skill without buying credits, it's just that I feel there's a lot of exaggerations on exactly how easy it is to do. Ultimately there are only so many easy questing areas generating a finite amount of gold in any time period. Which means most estimates thrown out in this thread breaks down if you have so much as 1-2 other people as determined as you are to tri-trans during the same time.

Trevize

There are a ton of quests out there - sticking to the well known, easy ones that are well-traveled will create the impression that it's all but impossible to get the gold for credits easily.

It kinda is, that way.

Most of the quests I made my gold on, I rarely ran into anyone else.

Kyrra

@Teg, that's kind of irrelevant when things like market appraisals exist. Something our company, and most others, do not charge for. Only difference between one from a real estate office and a bank valuation is that banks tend to be on the conservative side.

And with real estate, you can put any price on a house but it is always going to come down to the buyer being willing to pay it. Which they won't do if you can't sell the house (the product) to them.

Drauka

People that have no business sense or experience in said matters are easy to spot. They are usually the ones selling you your coffee, telling you about how the world works, with their clever insight.

Same in this matter, in my opinion.

Echald

Drauka said:

People that have no business sense or experience in said matters are easy to spot. They are usually the ones selling you your coffee, telling you about how the world works, with their clever insight.

Same in this matter, in my opinion.

Whoa, do you teach marketing classes? I swear I heard one of the teacher in those courses say something like that during my accounting degree.

Shibumi

From my point of view, I had the feeling that IRE forces you either to subscribe or to pay for credits somehow. I remember that at level 30, it was very hard to hunt. Mobs were too strong, and I could not make a decent living. Therefore, I decided to sign up for Elite Membership. After that, the overall experience greatly improved and I transed everything. It is a small fee to pay, compared what the game has to offer. However, it must be also noted that some people out there never spent a dime and reached huge level of greatness within the realms. Maybe they are super coders, have tons of RL time, and managed to get involved in the House/City credits (which I never did, so far). I really respect those people. Honestly, what concerns me a lot, it is the artefacts pricing more than anything; IRE makes a lot of money there, for sure.

Synbios

Don't forget 'really busy with writing stories/making artwork'.

Teg

Trevize said:

There are a ton of quests out there - sticking to the well known, easy ones that are well-traveled will create the impression that it's all but impossible to get the gold for credits easily.

It kinda is, that way.

Most of the quests I made my gold on, I rarely ran into anyone else.

Then let's look at it this way, Achaea has a finite amount of gold generation via questions how many people would it support trying to tri-trans at the same time at the gold generation rate/per person mentioned in this thread?

Teg

Kyrra said:

@Teg, that's kind of irrelevant when things like market appraisals exist. Something our company, and most others, do not charge for. Only difference between one from a real estate office and a bank valuation is that banks tend to be on the conservative side. And with real estate, you can put any price on a house but it is always going to come down to the buyer being willing to pay it. Which they won't do if you can't sell the house (the product) to them.

It is terribly relevant because there are no independent "market appraisers" for Achaea. A the same time I don't think players come into this game not expecting to pay ~$300 for pk and you are telling the people who would be doing the equivalent of price evaluation for buyers not do even bring up how much the product costs, the second part is an issue because you are preventing third parties from giving information before a certain time.

So put it another way it would be kind of you telling the bank and other real estate companies not to give any price estimation for the buyer before you have like 1 month to get the convince someone to buy the house when the average guy is convinced the house is probably going to cost $200k less than what it actually does.

Teg

Drauka said:

People that have no business sense or experience in said matters are easy to spot. They are usually the ones selling you your coffee, telling you about how the world works, with their clever insight.

Same in this matter, in my opinion.

People who are trying to feel like they are smarter than everyone else are pretty easy to spot too.

Sarapis

This thread has gone far past any usefulness it had. Closing it.