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Comments
Just to verify, it is 100% not legal to kill someone for being a soldier under any circumstance outside of war conditions. Outside of war they are a standard defender and you're entitled to attack them as if they were any normal person: once they give you a reason. If you get issued and that is your justification (and they've been minding their own business and completely not involved themself in the raid), you're going to lose that issue nine times out of ten.
Pretty much the golden rule applies there: apply common sense.
#ThePKRulesBehindTheVeil
If you wrote: "His city raided my city yesterday so I returned in kind by targetting the soldiers of this city." You would probably be ok. (Assuming it wasn't something you did constantly and just hid behind that reasoning to grief someone)
I'll pull some excerpts from the help file:
- This does not mean you can attack other players repeatedly just for being a member of an opposing organisation.
- A player must have done something serious to you to warrant an attack, and they must be aware of the conflict before you attack them.
This one is pretty clear. You can't attack someone unless you directly have a reason to do so. Thus, no attacking random members of enemy organizations, unless they've done some legitimate action to provoke an attack from your character.
This type of logic is dumb. Everyone should just act according to the appropriate rules at all times. This logic just leads to pointless circular conflicts where each side is behaving stupidly. Killing unrelated city soldiers because your city got raided in the past isn't good justification. That issue should be ruled against you.
If they are aware you are there to raid and start a sanction in response to something, it seems perfectly RP justified and legit under the PK rules to me.
It's always much more justified to PK someone if they know you're about to PK them. Appearing in someone's room and shanking them without their knowledge is different than showing up in a city, hanging around for 5 mins, then attacking people. Basically, the less reason you have to PK someone, the more you should make your intent clear. If you're a raiding party that's been in a city for a few minutes and has very obviously been spotted, then at that point I don't see a problem with considering the soldiers fair game.
I use this same philosophy in my solo-PKs. If a situation isn't totally clear, or I think someone might throw a fit, I'll make it abundantly clear that they're about to get attacked for whatever reason. It's a lot harder to blame the PKer for something if they make their intent clear, as long as their intent is somewhat reasonable.
Who needs common sense when all I need is this here victim card? Yuuuuuuuuup.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/9ee8eed7
http://pastebin.com/mQjzcZKg
Embarrassing coz of dat deafness prio against occie?
That's definitely not true. There is a huge difference between attacking people who are obviously grouped up for city defense (what usually occurs) and ganking random afk people, fishing for a sanction/farming deathsights. What's worse is 5v1 ganking people you don't like, then playing it off after the fact like you wanted to raid.
Carmell and other Targossians defile a shrine to Sartan in Tir Murann, very obviously. I warn her via OOC message that according to my sensibilities (common sense) she's participating in shrine conflict - the tug of war over spots between Sartan and Aurora/Deucalion - and so I'm not going to let her run into Tir Murann unattacked the next time we're taking back the spot (to serve as an earring target for her hostile allies, witness us, lay rites nearby, scope out the situation, etc.). I tell her I'm warning her so she doesn't just run in solo against a group of 3-4 next time and get killed instantly but so she can come in with a group and have a fight about it.
This is the only response.
Does her behavior violate common sense, and would I win the issue-reply if I engaged in a skirmish and attacked a frequent defiler who engages in this sort of "gotcha" / "neener neener" behavior? I know beyond question both OOCly as a player and ICly as a character that Carmell (and this is an example, there are numerous others who do this in Targossas) is a linchpin of this shrine conflict, doesn't hesitate to attack our group members or participate in fights over shrines when she thinks the numbers are in her favor, and therefore as both a player and a character has instigated conflict that makes her a legitimate target during shrine defilement. This isn't some random semi-dormant non-com who shows up one time to witness a shrine and gets ganked. There's a clear story and pattern of behavior here.
So, yea or nay?
For reference, see below for the only relevant official PK documentation in existence at the moment, sections bolded for my emphasis. If you're bringing back the PK rules with rulings out of left field that the vast majority of the combat-enjoying playerbase didn't see coming (i.e. that raid sanction one just now), you could at least do us the courtesy of documenting it somewhere.
Shrine war against Sartan seems to be serious. Carmell, Davio, Draqoom, et al seem to be aware we're angry/intending conflict about it. Killing them doesn't seem to be just about them being Targossian or looking at us sideways. We seem to be able to explain why. And we seem to have justification.
-----
...
Beings that Knight is the only limbprep class without a ability parry counter (Yes, I know venoms and arm breaks work), at least throw us a bone here. Come on. The DSB prep alone took 6 minutes to get around a reasonably smart opponent that static parries.
http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=NEVrmgY8
You're killing me, smalls. ( @Xer )
@Makarios - make it happen. I'll love you forever.
/rant
"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else."
-Albert Einstein
By the time I broke the head, then torso (Or even torso, then head) - he still would have been able to cure.
Torso > Head > Legs
https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/7d0738e0
Head > Torso > Legs
https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/043b5af1
Still not possible.
Even if you lead into it with being off salve balance off an Arm break... (haha, this is getting ridiculous) - The moment the head cures, telepathy is usable again. It doesn't break the mindlock.
"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else."
-Albert Einstein
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
T : 00:00 DSL 1.8s | Epseth/Epteth (1s + 1s) + Armbreak
00:05 <Mending Apply 1>
01:05 <Mending Apply 2>
02:05 <Restoration Apply : Arm>
02:10 DSL 1.8s | Epteth/Epteth (1s + 1s) + Headbreak
03:90 DSL 1.8s | Delph/Delph Leg
05:70 DSL 1.8s | Epseth/Epteth (1s|1s) Leg2
06:10 <Salve Balance> <If they have Equilibrium, they can now mindthrow>
07:50 IMPALE 3.8s
11:30 DISEMBOWEL
Using those times listed above, From 6.1 seconds to 11.3 seconds (5.2 seconds) - a monk's free to mind throw and stop the Disembowel.
"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else."
-Albert Einstein
As you can see, same problem. Head is cured before arms. Server side prioritizes Head, as well as svo.
T 00:00 DSL 1.8s | Arm 1 : Epseth/Epteth
00:05 <Mending 1 : Legs> Epseth
01:05 <Mending 2 : Arms> Epteth
01:80 DSL 1.8s | Head : Epseth/Epteth
02:05 <Restoration Apply - Priority : Head> (svo & server side both Prio head by default)
03:60 DSL 1.8s | Torso : Delph/Delph
<Prone>
05:40 DSL 1.8s | Leg1 : Curare/Prefarar
05:45 <Bloodroot eat> Paralysis
06:05 Head Break *** Same problem. 6:05s to 12.8s = mind throwable. ***
06:05 <Restoration Apply -- Priority : Anything>
06:95 <Hawthorn eat> Deafness
07:20 DSL 1.8s | Leg2 : Curare/Prefarar
08:45 <Bloodroot Eat> Paralysis
09:00 IMPALE 3.8s
09:95 <Kelp Eat> Sensitivity
10:05 <Restoration Apply -- Priority : Anything>
12.80 DISEMBOWEL
"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else."
-Albert Einstein
-
One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important
I guess its kinda like delph/delph and BBT, I suppose...
...Oh, wait. People do that too!
I don't think people can BBT impaled targets, can they?
"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else."
-Albert Einstein
A lot of monks can, and most who are in it for a serious fight mindprint you at the start.
"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else."
-Albert Einstein