If you were a newbie combatant....

Kuy

> @Alaskar said:
> I don't gag everything. But breathing, mass , stuff sipping and eating, stuff like that. No doubt exposure helps though

If you gag what your opponent is curing, how do you know how to carry out your offense?

Mithridates

lol magi

Alaskar

I don't gag my current target either. Though I considered it, as I don't use venoms or anything...

Caladbolg

Alaskar said:

I don't gag my current target either. Though I considered it, as I don't use venoms or anything...

Just remember you already have the numbers for sip/moss balance. You can track that and then hit them with massive damage before they are able to sip/potash out of it. or set up a combo so they only have one chance to sip/potash out when normally they'd have two.

Naah

Caladbolg said:

Alaskar said:

I don't gag my current target either. Though I considered it, as I don't use venoms or anything...

Just remember you already have the numbers for sip/moss balance. You can track that and then hit them with massive damage before they are able to sip/potash out of it. or set up a combo so they only have one chance to sip/potash out when normally they'd have two.

Or just cleave.

Alaskar

Holocaust isn't very accurate and timing wise, and to stack high burst damage I have to combine it with stormhammer, meaning that they're going to have time to heal anyways. Up until a certain point knowing when they sip and eat may be useful, but for high health opponents if I'm unable to prep and catch them in retard they're going to live through it and then hammer me after the stormhammer and Holocaust

Tohran

I'm sort of on that level, the biggest frustrations I have are as follows. (I use serverside curing, and when I intro Cubs, I ensure they read the help files and activate theirs as well, unless they have something better. Rare, but it happens) I also use the website provided client. Note that these are in no particular order.

1) Noone fights 1v1. You want to fight someone, you have to take them down while dealing with all of their friends/citymates/housemates/etc.

2) The speed of combat. I can barely keep up with what is going on, and I've been playing since 2005. So I just watch for balance and pull my next trick from there, which is mostly dsl.

3) Artefacts. Yeah, I have some. Then you've got people like @Rangor‌ and @Jhui‌ who have ALL of them. You can't compete without dropping serious coin into this game. Not something a newbie is likely to do.

4) Weapons. While it doesn't affect everyone, you NEED certain stats on your weapons if you plan to do combat. Rapiers/dirk/whip below a certain speed? NOPE! Weapons are expensive, just look at @Nemutaur‌ ads that he puts up weekly for rapiers if you don't believe me. 

5) Armour, same exact problem as weapons. You have to find a forger willing to spend literally hours just typing FORGE after paying them some exhorbitant amount of gold/credits to MAYBE get a suit of armour worthy of combat. With the steel shortage going on right now, it's not likely going to change.

6) Client/system differences. A lot of the good combatants have the advantage of coding, or at least that's how it seems to me. Some clients are much better than others as well.  With that knowledge, a lot of people know how to break a system, when I used Vadi's Nexus system it happened to me a lot. A newbie would use the serverside curing, dunno if you can break that or not, never had it happen yet. Figuring out the defence priorities is also a pain, since your major combatants in your faction of choice, lilkely don't use the serverside system and don't know the priorities. Had it happen with @Rangor‌ if you think it's not likely.

7) Experience loss. This is the major reason I avoid a lot of combat and get really pissed when Eleusis gets raided by 7 top-tier combatants from Ashtan when we have 3 Cubs, 2 Viridi, a ward or two, Talya, @Torrent‌ , @Exelethril‌ , @Rollanz‌ , and myself. I just spent all day getting 5% or so, and unless I get REALLY lucky and snag a killing blow, I'm going to lose all of that work, plus some, maybe even losing a level, which means losing health, which means I'm easier to squish. Endlessly losing experience because you can't stand up to someone who is either loaded with arties, or they brought a bunch of friends is the most frustrating part of this game. For me anyway.

I cannot suggest any solutions to any of these, except a complete revamp of the forgings system. No, I don't know how, it just needs fixed. There ya go @Sarapis‌ ask anyone I've fought, some newbies are more effective than I am!

Tohran

Vadimuses said:

Combat mechanics are biggest. 2+ affs per second from an serpent (dstab+snake) or an apostate (evileye+hunt/ents) - good luck keeping up, while trying to attack yourself, while knowing what strategy the opponent is going for you, while prioritizing your curing! Want to help yourself out by making some simple triggers as Garao said? As soon as you do that, illusions will be an endless barrage that'll keep owning you.

For group combat, spam is a giant issue for certain.

PS. I'd like to see people making this game try playing it again - so they know what issues people are actually facing today. Things changed from a decade ago.

Also, bolded.

Alrena

Tohran said:
6) Client/system differences. A lot of the good combatants have the advantage of coding, or at least that's how it seems to me. Some clients are much better than others as well.  With that knowledge, a lot of people know how to break a system, when I used Vadi's Nexus system it happened to me a lot. A newbie would use the serverside curing, dunno if you can break that or not, never had it happen yet. Figuring out the defence priorities is also a pain, since your major combatants in your faction of choice, lilkely don't use the serverside system and don't know the priorities. Had it happen with @Rangor‌ if you think it's not likely.

@Tohran actually, Ellodin and myself use serverside curing. I could definitely help you with the priorities. I know I made a few files in my House's ooc/combat clan about it for the newbies.

Santar

Did you mean: cursory

Makarios

Not sure what Santar's post is talking about.

But at an initial glance, a lot of the most active combatants seem to be using server curing. Whether that's in conjunction with anything else, hard to say.

Santar

Bastard abusing his mod powers!

Falhrad

I am a newbie.  I will never be a combatant.  Ever.

1.  I can't code, can't understand code, and have zero intention to learn.

2.  The PK system is utterly dependent on coding and scripting.  Combat defense = script.  Keeping up w/ afflictions is impossible without a script.

** And i'm not thrilled w/ the PvE content.  I've one combat command for PvE and everything else is crap I'll never use.  It's neither compelling nor rewarding.

Alaskar

look up the wundersys or whatever it's called in the technical forum section.  With a little learning and work,  you'll find Achaea combat to be very rewarding. The admin have really worked to remove the necessity of coding to be moderately successful in combat. 

Sena

@Falhrad It's true that scripts are required for combat*, there's no way you can keep up with afflictions manually while also maintaining your offence. But writing scripts, or even understanding them, is not required at all. There have been plenty of top-tier fighters who, like you, would be completely incapable of writing a curing system and had no interest in learning.

*With server-side curing though, you can get started in combat without any scripts at all. That won't be sufficient for high-end combat, but it will get you started, and it's enough to do well in raids and group combat where optimal curing isn't as important.

Mithridates

I can't code for shit and I manage.

Falhrad

Still not doing it.  Having something else control Falhrad's actions is alienating.  If the system is so complicated it takes a script to manage, then the system should be overhauled.

Jovolo

Lmao

Jacen

Lol love that attitude. I suppose you log in and just stare at the screen, since using the keyboard would be OOC?

Falhrad

Hey - you folks asked.  Admin wants to know why newbies aren't interested in combat.  A newbie answered, and the response was: well, don't be newb, use scripts like all the old dogs do.

You don't have to like my answer.  It's still my answer.

Jovolo

No one said you need to use scripts to get involved in combat. You just sound jaded.

Mizik

Don't need scripts. 

Easier with, obviously. 

Having 'someone' control is not how it works. This is a MUD! Your first MUD, it seems. This is how these games work. What makes them fun!

Like learning how to do combos in Street Fighter, Marvel vs Capcom, etc.

You're just button mashing. Do better.

Falhrad

Actually, it occurs to me there's no reason to keep playing this game.  It's almost entirely PK based, on a PK system that I find objectionable.  I'm gonna call it a loss and move on.

Have fun folks.  Achaea has truly exceptional writing and a pretty nice HTML5 interface.  Hope you guys stay in the top three for years to come.

Sarapis

@falhrad Thanks for giving us a try! I would say though, that a large portion of the playerbase doesn't PK, so I'm not sure one would describe it as being almost entirely PK based.

Naah

Fun fact.

Naah, when Marked for the Ebon Fist, was only running Omnipave 3.0 ( @Mishgul‌ ) Keep in mind almost half the lines were changed and the system could easily be shut down mid combat due to an error or unknown line.

Anyone can tell you that you don't need to be able to code. @Nemutaur‌ @Vadimuses‌ @Mishgul‌ are all amazing people who devoted their time to make awesome systems to make your Achaean experience easier.

Further more to my point, @Orzaansyn plays on her phone. She hunted to level 80 on her phone. She PKs, defends, and raids, on her phone. Granted, the new server side curing makes Achaea a lot more phone friendly now, and gives her a lot more freedom. 

Secondly the PK system is not objectional. Sure, there will be, on occasion the OP WarlockAssassinMonkServantToBabel wielding the StaffOfVictoryAndOPness (cough @Jhui cough) but that does not mean everyone steps away scared. @Iakimen @Rangor @Xer @Mithridates‌ and @Tesha have all certainly at one point came to blows with him.

 This game is entirely free and allows you to roleplay your choices. I can list 10 people off my head who do not fight at all, and simply hunt and rp with friends, and enjoy the game for what it is, a true roleplaying game, you make the character development and make your own choices.

So I do not feel you've really experienced Achaea truly, and saddened you think this game purely revolves around being able to script and player-killing. But, that is your opinion and not mine, so whatever game you do find, I hope you have more fun! 

Rohai

Newbish combatant here. One thing I think is tough about getting into combat is learning about other classes' abilities. Even through trial-and-error it's rough because I can look back through the log of a spar/duel and still have no idea what exactly I could/should have done differently because I just don't know the mechanics of the moves my opponent was using. It seems like the only way to figure that out IG is to hound skilled combatants asking them to explain everything to you, but no one wants to be That Guy constantly asking stupid questions. I guess another option is to make a newbie alt to switch between classes and look through their AB files, but that seems kind of cheesy (plus you'd only be able to see 2/3 skill sets). I guess my suggestion is to make information about different class skills/abilities more accessible IG somehow.

Atalkez

That particular issue falls under your House/City to make sure you're getting that experience to know what youre seeing.

The Sentaari had a scroll with all instakills,  their messages, and their counter. Was very helpful

Sena

Rohai said:

I guess my suggestion is to make information about different class skills/abilities more accessible IG somehow.

Making it possible to look at AB files for skills you don't have (for example, an alchemist could look at AB SPIRITUALITY ABSOLVE to see how a priest just killed them) would be a good start, I think.

That won't remove the need to learn from another player or from experience, because AB files usually don't give the full details of how an ability works (and some AB files don't tell you at all what an ability does), but it will give you some basic information to start with.