I think the one thing I can agree with, and likely most folks on both sides, is that one full OOC month of war is a bit much. Two weeks seems far better since it would give a discernible halfway point at the end of the first week and would reflect an ingame year.
The burnout is starting to feel real, and I think it's reflecting in attitudes all around.
Oh yeah. Let's not forget the countless tanks we've lost because we played reckless.
That's definitely played a part on both sides. It's absolutely cyclical, as well, because if we take a reasonable force (compared to historical precedent on Targ QW) and get nothing but guard attempts - it's hard to justify not doing that ourselves. I know it's on both sides, and that's the reasoning everyone will use.
I personally wish all of the actual fighting was pushed out of cities. I don't really like raiding as it's currently setup, but we make do with what we have. I really think we missed the mark by not including the Nishnatoba battles from the previous War. Those are the main Events posts from the War, and where all of the lore is tied so (statue of the Undying, Proficy's epic last ditch dbomb that took out like 12 dudes, etc) - and it's completely ignored for the current war system.
Also believe that ignoring allied villages is a mistake, as well. Jaru/New Hope/Blackrock/Enverren have played 0 part in this war, and that's not really interesting either.
Seafaring isn't something very many people enjoy (from my biased perspective, of course) and both sides have done 0 on that front. I would personally prefer a focus on skirmishing within locations that make sense, than all of this work to get sanction/deny sanction/use guards that happens every single raid. It's not fun or interesting, when you know what's coming from miles away and still can't stop it (very well, not saying there aren't options), and you lose the fight because of it.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
Seems kind of silly to insinuate that Mhaldor's been discord training when most of Targ's power players immediately log in the moment they start getting raided. It's been so common throughout the war that we've started to predict it happening.
That said, I doubt it hasn't been happening on both sides. I'm not quite involved enough to know what goes on on Mhaldor's side at the upper levels but my observation as a new player has noticed at least this much.
Most of the succesful tank detonations Mhaldor has gotten in the last few days has been off-peak raids so this is a bit unfair to claim.
I don't really understand how these two things are related, so please forgive me if I'm misunderstanding something here. My comment was regarding people suddenly showing up.
I don't really see an issue with capitalizing in off peak times, especially considering Targ regularly outnumbers Mhaldor. The same argument could be had for Targ showing up with around 24 people at their peak trying to raid Mhaldor while there were only 10 people on. What may be peak for you might not be peak for us and vice versa.
The flipside of this is that part of battling the forces of "Evil" is dealing with the fact that they -should- be capitalizing on your weaknesses. That's simply the evil thing to do. Good really should be the "better person" in this whole handling, as that's part of the conflict of being the good guy.
See this is the problem, you're not worshiping Sartan IRL, you're playing a game with other people, and in order for those people to continue to play in a decent manner you need to treat them with some respect and not just lolsmash just because you can.
Lol, @Archaeon, you're literally doing everything you've complained about us doing. Logged in to pile on after a sanction was obtained, dogpiling on an outnumbered team, etc. etc. This is why the needle never, ever moves.
Seems kind of silly to insinuate that Mhaldor's been discord training when most of Targ's power players immediately log in the moment they start getting raided. It's been so common throughout the war that we've started to predict it happening.
That said, I doubt it hasn't been happening on both sides. I'm not quite involved enough to know what goes on on Mhaldor's side at the upper levels but my observation as a new player has noticed at least this much.
Most of the succesful tank detonations Mhaldor has gotten in the last few days has been off-peak raids so this is a bit unfair to claim.
I don't really understand how these two things are related, so please forgive me if I'm misunderstanding something here. My comment was regarding people suddenly showing up.
I don't really see an issue with capitalizing in off peak times, especially considering Targ regularly outnumbers Mhaldor. The same argument could be had for Targ showing up with around 24 people at their peak trying to raid Mhaldor while there were only 10 people on. What may be peak for you might not be peak for us and vice versa.
The flipside of this is that part of battling the forces of "Evil" is dealing with the fact that they -should- be capitalizing on your weaknesses. That's simply the evil thing to do. Good really should be the "better person" in this whole handling, as that's part of the conflict of being the good guy.
See this is the problem, you're not worshiping Sartan IRL, you're playing a game with other people, and in order for those people to continue to play in a decent manner you need to treat them with some respect and not just lolsmash just because you can.
There's a valid point to this, but at the same time you have to realize that Mhaldor is a smaller city than Targ. Not capitalizing on chances would be stupid.
Maybe if there was some kind of equalizer here? Example - Previous comments have talked about the neutral battlegrounds. What if sides had to choose champions for this to enter the battlefield? RP-Wise there could easily be messages echoing in the area about the battle raging but MECHANICALLY there's only a certain number of people on the field at any given time.
The idea to this is that the characters aren't saying "hey we aren't gonna attack this city because x reason". It's them saying "We shouldn't attack these cities because we have too many resources tied up on the warfront".
Players who aren't into PVP could contribute via war supplies(essence for order capable abilities useful only on the battlefield and other supplies?) which doesn't trump the PVP going on but -enhances it- based on that teamwork.
As an addendum to my last note - This could even be another plane of existance. The gods are very real in Achaea after all. War doesn't -have- to be as we know it IRL, if could easily be a new "dangerous plane" where war scale conflict directly affects the cities.
As an addendum to my last note - This could even be another plane of existance. The gods are very real in Achaea after all. War doesn't -have- to be as we know it IRL, if could easily be a new "dangerous plane" where war scale conflict directly affects the cities.
That’s what I mentioned in my post. We have this plane, we have the plane tied directly to Gods, and there already is precedent that it can be a battleground for the War. Totally missed the mark by excluding this from the system.
Next time you’re in game, go check out the Events posts related to the last Mhaldor/Targ war, and tell me that doesn’t sound absolutely epic, because it was.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
As an addendum to my last note - This could even be another plane of existance. The gods are very real in Achaea after all. War doesn't -have- to be as we know it IRL, if could easily be a new "dangerous plane" where war scale conflict directly affects the cities.
That’s what I mentioned in my post. We have this plane, we have the plane tied directly to Gods, and there already is precedent that it can be a battleground for the War. Totally missed the mark by excluding this from the system.
Next time you’re in game, go check out the Events posts related to the last Mhaldor/Targ war, and tell me that doesn’t sound absolutely epic, because it was.
Oh geeze, it's things like this that make me realize how much I probably shouldn't talk and just watch the big boys argue. I didn't realize Nishnatoba was its own -plane-. I thought it was an area on the continent.
Your enjoyment of PK changes dramatically when you shift your stance from:
OMG THEY DISCORDED EVERYONE IN THEY ARE HORRIBLE PEOPLE WHO HATE FUN
to:
Well, I know that I journal a lot when I'm afk, and I know a lot of other people do that too. These people were probably journaled and have been sticking their heads in to see if there's any action, because that's what I do, too.
Life is so much better when you're not constantly assuming the worst because everyone is your enemy OOC too.
Oh yeah. Let's not forget the countless tanks we've lost because we played reckless.
That's definitely played a part on both sides. It's absolutely cyclical, as well, because if we take a reasonable force (compared to historical precedent on Targ QW) and get nothing but guard attempts - it's hard to justify not doing that ourselves. I know it's on both sides, and that's the reasoning everyone will use.
Yeah, was mainly responding to the "hurr durr Targ no fite".
Lol, @Archaeon, you're literally doing everything you've complained about us doing. Logged in to pile on after a sanction was obtained, dogpiling on an outnumbered team, etc. etc. This is why the needle never, ever moves.
once the tone was set, and i had been ganked and ganked and ganked again by almost every mhaldorian under the sun, you'll be hard pressed to find that i give a flying fuck
what i'm saying is that if i'm like 'hey let's fight these ppl with equitable numbers' mhaldor will inevitably bring more in order to smash us. i try to fight, and i try new things in order to learn and have fun and get rewarded with a shank in the ribs. that's why i don't really care any more about anyone's enjoyment which is a conflict for me because i want to be able to have fun, and have the people i'm fighting have fun, but i can't without getting shit on.
what i'm saying is that if i'm like 'hey let's fight these ppl with equitable numbers' mhaldor will inevitably bring more in order to smash us. i try to fight, and i try new things in order to learn and have fun and get rewarded with a shank in the ribs. that's why i don't really care any more about anyone's enjoyment which is a conflict for me because i want to be able to have fun, and have the people i'm fighting have fun, but i can't without getting shit on.
There's no incentive for me, either. To fight at a time when I'm not at work, and hugely outnumbered by the amount of Targs around, I have to fight you when you're 'off-peak,' and a few others are in the same boat as me. So it seems like the way to go is maybe just ride this out and see what changes are made after we're done with this one.
I have the most fun when it's just @Akri and @Crixos.
I enjoy figuring out how to beat the combo as well, but it is frustrating when it's 3v2 against them and then suddenly earring train.
This seems to be a feeling reflected on Mhaldor's side as well, that the earring train is strong with Targ.
A takeway from this is that maybe earring needs better balancing rather than being upset over players taking advantage of the tool they have available? Like maybe Earrings should have charges much like mystical cards, or maybe if you've used earring, you can't use another one for such and such amount of time. I dunno.
I have the most fun when it's just @Akri and @Crixos.
I enjoy figuring out how to beat the combo as well, but it is frustrating when it's 3v2 against them and then suddenly earring train.
It's not that we WANT to bring in a ton of people, and under normal circumstances quite often we wouldn't tank at all. But we also see Seragorn suddenly appear, Achilles coming out of the woodworks, Daeir getting off his ship and so on... I definitely get where you're coming from, and it's not easy to keep things even!
I personally just resolved to not let the numbers bother me too much either way, just fight this war when we can, where we can and have fun with it as much as possible. When it ends, after perhaps a little break from each other to cool down, we can go back to our regular skirmishing where we can sod off if you just don't feel like fighting us.
Also, why is the faction that is winning by a long shot complaining the most here?
This is the thread for feedback on the current war system. What does winning or losing have to do with it? I don't think any more changes are being made mid-war. The radio silence implies we're dragging this out to the end. My feedback has stayed the same since day one.
Mhaldor has an EU/AU team and that's probably the only raid we can attend, for those of us logging in before or after work. Your team can fight without you sometimes, Sothantos, and they can even fight good odds with guards on side. Your response has been to bring double the guys while I'm sleeping, and yesterday you wouldn't engage until you had the same advantage. People got bored and logged off, waiting for you. Let's have perception match reality.
To everyone, I'm genuinely sorry if it feels like leaders don't care, rather than trying to get their cities through this slog of a playtest. The bottom was bound to fall out.
Reaching down with a massive hand, Sartan lifts your head and draws a taloned finger across your throat, the wound closing as He does so.
Comments
The burnout is starting to feel real, and I think it's reflecting in attitudes all around.
I personally wish all of the actual fighting was pushed out of cities. I don't really like raiding as it's currently setup, but we make do with what we have. I really think we missed the mark by not including the Nishnatoba battles from the previous War. Those are the main Events posts from the War, and where all of the lore is tied so (statue of the Undying, Proficy's epic last ditch dbomb that took out like 12 dudes, etc) - and it's completely ignored for the current war system.
Also believe that ignoring allied villages is a mistake, as well. Jaru/New Hope/Blackrock/Enverren have played 0 part in this war, and that's not really interesting either.
Seafaring isn't something very many people enjoy (from my biased perspective, of course) and both sides have done 0 on that front. I would personally prefer a focus on skirmishing within locations that make sense, than all of this work to get sanction/deny sanction/use guards that happens every single raid. It's not fun or interesting, when you know what's coming from miles away and still can't stop it (very well, not saying there aren't options), and you lose the fight because of it.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
There's a valid point to this, but at the same time you have to realize that Mhaldor is a smaller city than Targ. Not capitalizing on chances would be stupid.
Maybe if there was some kind of equalizer here? Example - Previous comments have talked about the neutral battlegrounds. What if sides had to choose champions for this to enter the battlefield? RP-Wise there could easily be messages echoing in the area about the battle raging but MECHANICALLY there's only a certain number of people on the field at any given time.
The idea to this is that the characters aren't saying "hey we aren't gonna attack this city because x reason". It's them saying "We shouldn't attack these cities because we have too many resources tied up on the warfront".
Players who aren't into PVP could contribute via war supplies(essence for order capable abilities useful only on the battlefield and other supplies?) which doesn't trump the PVP going on but -enhances it- based on that teamwork.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
Oh geeze, it's things like this that make me realize how much I probably shouldn't talk and just watch the big boys argue. I didn't realize Nishnatoba was its own -plane-. I thought it was an area on the continent.
OMG THEY DISCORDED EVERYONE IN THEY ARE HORRIBLE PEOPLE WHO HATE FUN
to:
Well, I know that I journal a lot when I'm afk, and I know a lot of other people do that too. These people were probably journaled and have been sticking their heads in to see if there's any action, because that's what I do, too.
Life is so much better when you're not constantly assuming the worst because everyone is your enemy OOC too.
Yeah, was mainly responding to the "hurr durr Targ no fite".
Disappearing from Achaea for now. See you, space cowboy.
smileyface#8048 if you wanna chat.
This seems to be a feeling reflected on Mhaldor's side as well, that the earring train is strong with Targ.
A takeway from this is that maybe earring needs better balancing rather than being upset over players taking advantage of the tool they have available? Like maybe Earrings should have charges much like mystical cards, or maybe if you've used earring, you can't use another one for such and such amount of time. I dunno.
- 2020/06/22 20:14:58 - Reyson has been slain by the might of some gold sovereigns.
that's what u get for tanking our bank
I personally just resolved to not let the numbers bother me too much either way, just fight this war when we can, where we can and have fun with it as much as possible. When it ends, after perhaps a little break from each other to cool down, we can go back to our regular skirmishing where we can sod off if you just don't feel like fighting us.
No one is even accusing each of being a horrible person IRL yet.
Disappearing from Achaea for now. See you, space cowboy.
smileyface#8048 if you wanna chat.
This is the thread for feedback on the current war system. What does winning or losing have to do with it? I don't think any more changes are being made mid-war. The radio silence implies we're dragging this out to the end. My feedback has stayed the same since day one.
Mhaldor has an EU/AU team and that's probably the only raid we can attend, for those of us logging in before or after work. Your team can fight without you sometimes, Sothantos, and they can even fight good odds with guards on side. Your response has been to bring double the guys while I'm sleeping, and yesterday you wouldn't engage until you had the same advantage. People got bored and logged off, waiting for you. Let's have perception match reality.
To everyone, I'm genuinely sorry if it feels like leaders don't care, rather than trying to get their cities through this slog of a playtest. The bottom was bound to fall out.
Reaching down with a massive hand, Sartan lifts your head and draws a taloned finger across your throat, the wound closing as He does so.