Adventure Updates - Daily Credits!

Reyson

Can we get a CONFIRM prompt, like so many other things, so we don't get stuck in some dumb alternate adventure to the one we wanted? Echoing what the adventure is when you try and pick it would be nice. 

Astarod

So, three requests for new adventures:

KILL/BE KILLED BY SOMEONE WHO HAS YOUR BOUNTY OR CONTRACT. 

SPEND 30 CONSECUTIVE MINUTES IN ANNWYN

BE SLAIN BY ANOTHER PLAYER

Just three dumb ideas to reward/prod people who may not want to engage in the conflict ones.  

Kinilan

Group activities are rewarding.

Tahquil

@Nicola is there a way to flag quests that aren't part of the quest system yet?

Is it also possible to see how mush renown a quest will give you? I did a few yesterday in the quest system yesterday that I thought were in the suggested areas areas and got nada.

Prythe

I can't find this in the documentation - how much does it cost to reject an Adventure?

Adrik

It's now 6000 gold to reject an adventure! (Down from 15k, from what I saw!)

Phaestus

Hmm, seems like there's something a bit off with quest rewards, we'll look into it and see what's going on there.

Ismay

I tend to be mostly negative in regard to how the game has been run for the last few years,. It's about time I give credit where credit's due.  It's good to see change in a good direction.  Once all the bugs and other problems are solved,  I'm sure this will be an amazing system. 

Morsul

should make gaining certain levels also give renown. Maybe the same levels that give bound credits.

Accipiter

Morsul said:

should make gaining certain levels also give renown. Maybe the same levels that give bound credits.

Renown is just fractions of bound credits now, not really a point in giving it for levels when you already get bound credits there.

Morsul

Low-levels typically have a harder time getting renown. This would give them a bit of a leg up, otherwise it just perpetuates the have/have-not divide.

Accipiter

Yeah but a level is already worth the equivalent of 80 renown in lessons and every 5 you get the equivalent of minimum 500 renown and up to like 2k. Just seems kind of stupid to say 'you received 5.1 bound credits'. The point of auto conversion is low enough that you will only ever be 90 renown away from having a new credit and lowbies should be able to get that with the quest stuff.

Morsul

You're missing it.

The level 90+ people now can probably get their full 20 renown credits every day. By getting to level 90+, they also got their level credits.

The level <90 people now are getting probably 10 renown credits by virtue of being less tanky and less able to do adventures.

Each day that passes wherein the low-levels don't get their full 20 renown credits, they lag further behind the high-levels who can get their full renown creds.

A lot of the game's systems already reinforce the position of early adopters, sure. But it would be a shame if this snazzy new addition gets added to the list.

Iaxus

I think it would make more sense to just have low level quests (which aren't awarding renown to higher levels already, as part of the system) reward more renown per quest. That compensates for the multitude of "medium" and "hard" adventures that lowbies can't do.

Lenn

Morsul said:

Each day that passes wherein the low-levels don't get their full 20 renown credits, they lag further behind the high-levels who can get their full renown creds.

Every day you don't play Achaea is lagging behind too, so I don't really understand this argument.

Accipiter

Morsul said:

You're missing it.

The level 90+ people now can probably get their full 20 renown credits every day. By getting to level 90+, they also got their level credits.

The level <90 people now are getting probably 10 renown credits by virtue of being less tanky and less able to do adventures.

Each day that passes wherein the low-levels don't get their full 20 renown credits, they lag further behind the high-levels who can get their full renown creds.

A lot of the game's systems already reinforce the position of early adopters, sure. But it would be a shame if this snazzy new addition gets added to the list.

You're missing it. Adding renown to levels wouldn't do anything at all because the amount you would get is so low. If you got 50 renown per level you would end up with an additional 50 credits at level 100, which catches you up by less than a week. 

Namino

I see where Morsul is coming from. Credits have always beget credits in the sense that the more artes you had, the faster you could do things that made you money and get more credits. This system is an extension of that as stronger people can quickly blast their cap and go back to gold farming while newbies are left behind.

HOWEVER. 

I'm waiting to see how quest rewards are adjusted per Phaestus' post. If they are strongly biased upwards, then it'll serve as an equalizer as newbies have more areas at or above their level to quest in, with less competition. Right now however, it takes about 20 commonish quests (8-16 renown) to equal a ffa win (300) so it's still too disparate.

Keorin

I think some level-limited adventures could really help the system for the newer players, along with quests giving a bit more. Like, hunting adventures that need to be completed solo, but involve doable enemies for that level, stuff like that. The system as it is was clearly balanced for experienced and higher level players, and while I love the chance at more credit income, I do think we're probably the ones who need this system less, if anything.

Morsul

heh @ not giving newbies more credits

Sometimes I'm unsure what's worse about Achaea, the admins or the players. 

Ysela

This perceived need to get max credits every day is a risk, I reckon. The game will be far less engaging if everyone spends a lot of their time doing mechanical things off a limited list, at the expense of the more interesting interactions between players. "Free" things are nice (cue "there's no such thing as a free lunch"), of course, but grind for the sake of grind is not what makes Achaea special. I trust (I actually do) that the admin know this too.

I personally prefer player driven (with or without god or admin assistance) conflict and interaction based on what makes IC sense over activities made artificially interesting through semi-OOC rewards or the "admin made mechanics for this, so it must be important" plot hook. This last point probably sounds more harsh than I intend it to, and it is in any case another topic.

More on topic, yes, newcomers need credits more than established players. Hopefully the quests thing can be balanced to make renown-generation roughly equal across levels

Seragorn

I'd also like to point out to the people saying the lowbies are missing out because they cant kill the medium adventurer hunting targets, that all they really need to do is land a single hit to complete that adventure.  So if your newbies are missing out because they cant do those quests, then thats at least partially on you higher ups for not grouping up to do those kills, so long as everyone lands a punch, they get the reward.  I don't need to take people along to kill most of those things, but I often do because its much more enjoyable and this system is fantastic at encouraging group interaction, from forays, to hunting, to slaughtering each other.  I cant applaud the staff enough for these changes, they're fantastic.

Some people will log in and do some boring repetitive tasks to get their daily reward, but most will end up in some positive interaction along the way that otherwise may not have happened.

Austere

Seragorn said:

I cant applaud the staff enough for these changes, they're fantastic.

Best thing that's ever happened to Achaea, hands down. I've really tried to push my login time up, not to get this stuff done, but because I know there's something going on ic that will actually pull my interest.  

Now I just need to remember to turn my elite on to show my thanks monetarily. 

Farrah

Ysela said:

This perceived need to get max credits every day is a risk, I reckon. The game will be far less engaging if everyone spends a lot of their time doing mechanical things off a limited list, at the expense of the more interesting interactions between players. "Free" things are nice (cue "there's no such thing as a free lunch"), of course, but grind for the sake of grind is not what makes Achaea special. I trust (I actually do) that the admin know this too.

I personally prefer player driven (with or without god or admin assistance) conflict and interaction based on what makes IC sense over activities made artificially interesting through semi-OOC rewards or the "admin made mechanics for this, so it must be important" plot hook. This last point probably sounds more harsh than I intend it to, and it is in any case another topic.

More on topic, yes, newcomers need credits more than established players. Hopefully the quests thing can be balanced to make renown-generation roughly equal across levels

You're not alone here. While I have been renown gaming as much as anyone so far, the feeling that I have to do X random tasks every day (not even always for myself, often it's others who want me to help them with their own adventures for their own credits), and all the talk around me about it is definitely frustrating me some and reducing immersion. That being said, I was glad the pk adventures got made non-citizen only at least (so I could stop being asked by citymates to let them kill me for renown), and I agree it may die down some eventually, so it's hard to judge now how it will be once things settle in.

But I mostly don't like that I have to choose between mechanical rewards and playing a character. Like, there's no IC reason for everybody in the whole damned universe to want the Mhunna dead. But now everyone does. I'm not sure how to fix this, though. The ability to gain credits every day is definitely a benefit to the game in the sense that people need credits to get the full experience of the game in pk and otherwise. And I also agree that encouraging group activities can be good for the game and motivate people to go out and do things.

It would be cool if every city had its own renown mobs, like someone else mentioned. Just because it'd help reinforce city IC identity at least a little, rather than having everyone set on killing all these denizens for no real reason. But I'm not sure how viable that'd be.

I think there could stand to be a few more pk renown options too. Bounties are good renown, but contracts should have one too, and destroying a shrine. I feel like pretty much all pkers are out doing all these bashing things lately, and, to me, it's felt like there's been less pk as a result. While, again, this may change as things settle in, I think more pk renown options might help with that - keep the pk going by allowing the daily max to be met primarily through that.

It'd be great if we could reward other rp-oriented activities with renown too, since those are what make the game really engaging for me, and I'd rather not have people ignore those in favor of credit producing activities, but admittedly I'm not sure how one would do that without it being stupidly gamed.

Keorin

While I agree with the problems people are pointing out in regards to focusing solely on renown, I do feel like this isn't a new problem. Just, before, when people wanted to make a bunch of credits, they had to go focus on hunting or deepsea fishing. In that sense, this seems like a pretty significant improvement.

Like, there's a novice in the Shield right now who was spending a solid chunk of time just on hunting to try and gain their class skills. Now, they might still be spending a solid chunk of time getting skills, but they've got a much more lucrative way of doing it, -and- it's a lot less varied/isolated from the rest of the game. So while I agree that more changes would definitely help this system feel like it fit more fluidly into normal gameplay, rather than becoming the point of the game, I think this is almost solely a step up from how things were.

Makarios

We can probably expand the adventure options a bit more now that we've seen it in practice. Some "no brainer" things previously weren't on the list because they weren't fair things to give someone at random. Defiling a shrine is a good example of something that probably would suck for a lot of people to have got as their random adventure, though I'm not necessarily sure that's a good one to add because of the potential for everyone to clear shrines on mass. Do like the contract one though.

No comment on factional adventures yet, its an interesting idea but not something we've had any kind of dialogue concerning so far.

Zenui

Is there a way to disable the "You have received X renown" MSGs? If you do a number of adventure completions in a month, then the stream of messages is rather spammy.

Maajida

Having more options is the solution to this system. There's so many I just can't do and some that when I do them, the time investment feels... wasted. I've aimed for a few credits a day but I find the stress of trying to maximize the system to be not worth it for the limited time I have to play. It's a little discouraging because so many of them are not fun at all, especially when you have to do them daily.

The list is organized so strangely that it's a bit difficult to figure out what to do next, even when I use adventure categories to shrink it down. What I really want is for it to be a passive system (Like daily achievements) or allow more than one adventure to be taken? It would be nice to stack them - get a bounty, kill a player, kill a player with tzantza, etc.. Something that lets me continue to play and integrate into my daily time in Achaea rather than something I have to completely focus upon and address and plan for each and every day.

I know this might sound ungrateful because I really am grateful, this is just how I feel about its implementation.

Atalkez

I second the passive benefit instead of an active one.

I hate feeling like I’m playing menu selection instead of the game. It’s to menu heavy, and telling people to ADVENTURE EMBARK X every time we do something just seems so disingenuous to the spirit of the game.

Kog

A few screwed up and took "a trio of raging sea serpents" instead of "a sea serpent" for theirs and we had to sit there a minute (while it attacked us) and sort numbers. It is definitely a rough, unfinished-feeling part of the system.

Jurixe

I really would love it if more ways existed to get credits that could be done without too much difficulty on your own. Right now a very dedicated group of people in Mhaldor are taking people out every day to forays and killing honours mobs to get those credits quickly, but it's beginning to get repetitive really quickly. But if we don't go on these forays, then the credits are very hard to get on our own.

For example, there's only 3 exploration quests and two of those are in Yggdrasil, which would probably kill most people going up there alone. Maybe more exploration quests to mainland areas people don't know that well? Something that would make sense for you to go and do every day?