Adventure Updates - Daily Credits!

Namino

They said the quiet part out loud.

Keorin

The question shouldn't be who deserves what, but what's best for the game's health. Those of us who spend money aren't going to get much use out of it if the game's population collapses and no one's taking part in what we want to do.

In my mind, the big question isn't whether someone needs to be able to max out their credit gain every day, but how long it takes to reach a point where you can reasonably engage in the game's systems. Ignoring lesson packages, just finishing your fist class takes something like 600 credits. A good few classes then need 800-1000 credits in artefacts to have their basic capabilities. Even at this point, you're missing a lot of what people would likely consider actually essential, from basic utility skills (fly/leap) to having some measure of defensive heft.

To totally spitball some numbers, at around 2000 credits invested you're going to have all your basics under you and be able to engage, but you're still going to have very limited capabilities in comparison to others. So in that case, how many days of serious playtime should it take to reach that 2000 credit mark? That's where I see the real question.

Issam

Cobault said:

I'm fine with being selfish. 🤷🏻‍♂️
I didn't climb through the mud throughout my life worrying about who I was gonna be able to give a handout to one day.
I'm not interested in paying anything forward for someone else. I'm here for me and my people, no one else.

No matter how much money I spend (which is way more than a lot of people, like a concerning amount), I can't buy more players. Any sort of bought-in advantage is useless if there's no one to play with. Seems short-sighted to me to be 'selfish' about it when the writing is on the wall concerning the size of the playerbase and how to attract actual new blood.

Adrik

It would take 2 years to get 15kcr, or 7.5k retire, assuming max renown each day, @Cobault . Ive had Adrik since... 2017 or 2018... My retire value is 18k. I am more than happy to pay it forward. Are you also against city/house creditsales? What about the gambling sale? Newbie packages?

Farrah

I honestly think most quests should give way more renown than they do. It feels like they are as time consuming or more than adventures but adventures usually give a lot more renown. The only place I've found worth questing for renown at my level is Underworld, and even that, I'm hunting in an open pk area with strong mobs that most people don't even want to go to, and having to kill multiple mobs for one quest complete while just killing Tohmtesh is worth 75 renown and just boarding and disembarking certain ships is worth 50.

I think most quests should be worth at least 50 if they're in somewhere on your AREAS and Underworld quests should be worth 100-150.

I think the honours mobs that are only worth 150 should be buffed too. Balex is worth 150 iirc and he's soloable. Belladona is the easiest honours mobs but she still regens so hard she seems to require a group to kill and only gives you 150. Fafnir rekt almost my whole group when I took a group to kill him. I can largely solo him but most people can't tank him worth shit and he's definitely way harder than Balex but, again, only 150 renown.

I think Belladona should be at least 300 and Fafnir maybe 500.

Pyori

Cobault said:

tl;dr, your attitude hasn't even remotely changed in the time you were away, like you tried so very hard to say it did.

Frankly, if I'm agreeing this hard with Namino, there's something strange. My retire value would be well over double yours, if I didn't tradein a ton of artifacts and change class 300 times. I couldn't care less if a new player got to that point quickly, if it means having more people to actually play with. Your mindset is by far the minority, sorry.

eta: Because I only just noticed it, when I logged into portal ... Can we not have the game MESSAGE you on completion of everything. Pls thx.

Namino

Edit: Eh, nevermind the meme. Too pointed.

But yeah. Pyori agreeing with me is pretty unprecedented.

Cobault

Pyori said:

Cobault said:

tl;dr, your attitude hasn't even remotely changed in the time you were away, like you tried so very hard to say it did.

Frankly, if I'm agreeing this hard with Namino, there's something strange. My retire value would be well over double yours, if I didn't tradein a ton of artifacts and change class 300 times. I couldn't care less if a new player got to that point quickly, if it means having more people to actually play with. Your mindset is by far the minority, sorry.

eta: Because I only just noticed it, when I logged into portal ... Can we not have the game MESSAGE you on completion of everything. Pls thx.

You're the most toxic player I've met in this game in a while so I'm not too bothered by how you feel about me.

Atalkez

@Cobault

I’ve spent probably ten times as much as you, and I fully support people being able to catch me in a reasonable timeframe. Your position is an idiotic one.

Pyori

Cobault said:

Pyori said:

Cobault said:

tl;dr, your attitude hasn't even remotely changed in the time you were away, like you tried so very hard to say it did.

Frankly, if I'm agreeing this hard with Namino, there's something strange. My retire value would be well over double yours, if I didn't tradein a ton of artifacts and change class 300 times. I couldn't care less if a new player got to that point quickly, if it means having more people to actually play with. Your mindset is by far the minority, sorry.

eta: Because I only just noticed it, when I logged into portal ... Can we not have the game MESSAGE you on completion of everything. Pls thx.

You're the most toxic player I've met in this game in a while so I'm not too bothered by how you feel about me.

Oh look, you learned to throw around buzzwords, too.

Take a look around, and see just how many people agree with those feelings about you.

Sobriquet

The mindset that "it was this way for me and I had to work, therefore others have to do it too" is ludicrous and unhelpful.

Who cares that newbies get some credits faster than we did back in 2009? Since retirement has been a thing we've had 18yr olds with 9000cr to spend anyway. It's really not an issue, especially as with this new system we are likely to have players stick around longer and be better equipped enemies / allies.

Cooper

Cobault said:

I'm fine with being selfish. 🤷🏻‍♂️
I didn't climb through the mud throughout my life worrying about who I was gonna be able to give a handout to one day.
I'm not interested in paying anything forward for someone else. I'm here for me and my people, no one else.

This is one of the most toxic mindsets I've seen in a while. Please reconsider.

Rackham

So, where's the balance between these two ideas of 'we need more players' and 'you should earn credits'. If making it easy to get new players is the issue here, just give em 20 credits a day as a login bonus. Boom. Problem solved. They didn't earn it, but now they have a reasonable chance of catching up with no money spent.

I like the adventure system because to hit your cap you need to invest actual time and/or make some friends to drag you around. I hit maybe 5-8 credits a day on my terms. Maybe I do a voyage, hit some islands, and I hit 13-16 credits a day. I don't hunt Belladona or Big Z, or maybe I'd hit my 20 too.

I think the current system is engaging for everybody, while rewarding those who already have powerful characters, and those willing to have interplay with others. Would I like to make 20 credits a day? Hell yeah! Do I feel entitled to them because I'm so far behind the artied reality of most combatants? No.

5 credits is your login bonus. 20 credits is your 'try hard' reward. That's my take on this whole thing.

Pyori

Rackham said:

5 credits is your login bonus. 20 credits is your 'try hard' reward. That's my take on this whole thing.

That's a terrible take on the whole thing.

If you're gonna implement the equivalent of dailies in your game, they should be able to be capped in 2-3 hours for a single-player --maybe 4 tops (and that's if you're being anal about doing every single one you can do)-- then let them go about their day as per usual. Especially when the rewards for doing so are as good as they are (credits, in Achaea's case). Naturally it should cap a lot quicker if you do it as a group (as it currently does), no issue there.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with entitlement, lol. I have no clue why you're so eager to throw that word around as if it adds weight to your argument. It is possible to like the premise of a system, while still criticising the rather large flaws in it.

Cooper said:

This is one of the most toxic mindsets I've seen in a while. Please reconsider.

I already agreed with Namino, don't make me agree with you as well, please.

Namino

Agreeing with Pyori here.

We have try hard rewards already. The vast amounts of gold you get for bashing past dragon [150k a day, 10-12bcr], seafaring monster hunting [idk what the gold is here but I'm told it's a lot], mining [as much as 1million a day in rescources if you get good lodes and rare minerals like profithyst, of which I hauled two pieces plus 8k obsidian in 24 hrs recently, so like 80bcr easy].

Dailies should not be a "try hard to max". Anyone who tosses a couple of hours of casual play at them should cap. If we're not comfortable with everyone easily getting 20 cr, find a number we are comfortable at people easily getting and cap it there.

Dailies aren't supposed to be a time sink.

Kog

I kind of like that I can tryhard and score 20cr, or just spend like 20m tinkering to get 5cr. Maybe up renown reward for quests (especially for sub 80), but - overall - I'm comfortable with effort => reward.

One thing that might help is to open things up a little more, seafaring feels way more lucrative than anything else. 500 renown netted for a leviathan and all I did was drool on the ballista like I had been for the last hour.

Alternatively, make more things do-able on a ship to count as "contributing" or even just give credit to anyone aboard. Stuff a boat full of twenty novices and drag them out.

Veldrin

Cobault said:

I'm fine with being selfish. 🤷🏻‍♂️
I didn't climb through the mud throughout my life worrying about who I was gonna be able to give a handout to one day.
I'm not interested in paying anything forward for someone else. I'm here for me and my people, no one else.

The easy way to make sure they never reach your retirement value is.. get the renown. You can get the same credits if you'd bother do the adventures or quests, heck you can sit on a ship while someone else sails out and kill sea monsters and all you have to do is embark on the right adventure whenever a seamonster attacks and survive, and that's worth 170 renown per. If your sailing crew is someone who's able to kill every monster on the adventure list that's easy 2000+ renown (since all you theoretically have to do is sit on a ship and survive while embarking on adventures)

Austere

Days like today make me miss proper reactions that let us vote posts down hard enough they no longer show. I'd hate for a new player to read this entitled bullshit.  

Taryius

Is the intent of the system to replicate your typical "daily" tasks from other mmo's, or is it to reward participation and success in the game world?

Should probably take a look at the intent behind the original adventuring system. All that has changed is  the rewards. 

Adrik

Cobault said:

My retire value is like 8k. I've spent a shitload of money on Cobault. I've had him since 2011 or so.
So forgive me if I'm not on board with a new player being able to catch up to me in under a year (utility wise. I have a lot of dumb shit I wanted for fun/have shit I've won for free that I'm not counting,) whereas I've invested both time and money to get my character to where he is.

I dunno where you got the arbitrary argument or whatever, since I never mentioned money in my  post. 2k credits is some decent artefacts just for barely playing the goddamn game.

People like you are why they're always skeptical to give us shit. Like god damn, what do you want? For someone to jump in and never spend a dime on the game but to load themselves down with arties over a couple months? Do you know how a business works? Do you follow how impractical of a model that would be to follow? Are you one of those "print more money!" people when it comes to government debt?

I hear where you're coming from but it's just not practical dude. It's like you think if Achaea starts hemorrhaging money the higher ups will all take pay cuts and shit or work for free.

Some of you people just aren't happy with shit.

Matter fact, edit: if you think the value of a credit is arbitrary you really need to quit playing this game. I've bought shit to make my character better but I've never really batted an eye because of how much I enjoy Achaea and I don't mind pitching in for a game/service not FORCING me and the shitload of other people that play to pay a monthly subscription fee or some shit. The "value" is what the game means to you when you spend the money. This isn't Call of Duty. You don't jump in, get a super fun year worth of gameplay, and then sit around and wait for the next one to drop. Longevity is the key to this game. There's nothing I can say to help you see otherwise if you don't understand that one sentiment.

Okay. Now that I'm home and can actually fucking quote this.

Holy fucking shit.

You must live in some god damn nebulous galaxy if you think this is at all conducive to keeping a game open.  JFC.

I work for 40 hours a week. Sometimes more, sometimes less if I get sick. I haven't been around recently because I've been dealing with car trouble and feeling a bit depressed, but I still absolutely love this game, even if it misses the mark sometimes.

5cr is the 'easy to get' amount, so assuming that someone who played for only 1 hour every day did that.. for a year.. they'd get 1826cr... Now, to help put this in context.

That's not even enough to get 2 class arties to level 3. It might get them to level 2 for each. That's a lvl 3 bracelet. That's asking someone, for 1 hour of their time.. for an entire year... to log in. do it. Log out. Assuming they do absolutely fuck-all else.

"Well I paid for it, why shouldn't they have to!" I know this is going to delve into political commentary.. but should we not strive for the world to be a better place than the one that we existed in? Should we not strive for life for the next generation to be better? To be easier. So that they don't have to go through the trouble we did? If my friends outside of Achaea can be told "Yeah, you can play the game wholly for free. You can pay to get more out of your experience, but overall if you dig RPing, it's great.".. Then we're in a good spot. (Note: The game isn't to that point yet, but I don't feel bad for showing people to the game, so that's a marked improvement. I look forward to where it will go.)

tl;dr Okay Boomer.

Rackham

Pyori said:

This has nothing whatsoever to do with entitlement, lol. I have no clue why you're so eager to throw that word around as if it adds weight to your argument. It is possible to like the premise of a system, while still criticising the rather large flaws in it.

Did you feel personally attacked by this or something? Like shit... I had a lot of good things to say about the system, and somehow that's negated because you didn't like one word?

What's your take on just handing out the free 20 credits then? People wouldn't be so upset on 'missing out' on that sweet, sweet credit cap if it was lower. Drop it to 10, then everybody can hit it.

To be absolutely clear, I'd love more free credits! Make everything easier. If it means more players, stronger players, whatever! I'm just saying I like the system because it's not just a log in bonus. People are getting into hunting groups, when before it was 'I get more xp/gold  hunting alone'. Noncombatants are trying out the arena because now there's a gain to it. More people are sailing. In general, more things are going on, and more people are taking part in those things.

Adrik said:

5cr is the 'easy to get' amount, so assuming that someone who played for only 1 hour every day did that.. for a year.. they'd get 1826cr... Now, to help put this in context.

That's not even enough to get 2 class arties to level 3. It might get them to level 2 for each. That's a lvl 3 bracelet. That's asking someone, for 1 hour of their time.. for an entire year... to log in. do it. Log out. Assuming they do absolutely fuck-all else.

Yeah, it is easy. Again that was the point of my last post. An hour of your time, 5 easy credits. I hear so often 'you don't need arties for combat, but they help' and now we're talking about 2 lvl2 arties as if that's not enough for free?

If this is strictly about making 'things' easier to get, then scrap the adventures and start handing out a log in bonus. Give everybody 20 credits for logging in for an hour. Then they can do whatever they want and still get those sweet arties at the end of the month. But then what's the point in making big Belladonna runs? What's the point in even doing HARD level adventures?

I think this system does a lot of good things on a lot of different fronts.

I can tell friends that this is actualy a game you can get good at for free now.

I can see more people who already play the game engaging eachother.

Caelan

Austere said:

Days like today make me miss proper reactions that let us vote posts down hard enough they no longer show. I'd hate for a new player to read this entitled bullshit.  

Pyori

Rackham said:

Pyori said:

This has nothing whatsoever to do with entitlement, lol. I have no clue why you're so eager to throw that word around as if it adds weight to your argument. It is possible to like the premise of a system, while still criticising the rather large flaws in it.

What's your take on just handing out the free 20 credits then? People wouldn't be so upset on 'missing out' on that sweet, sweet credit cap if it was lower. Drop it to 10, then everybody can hit it.

I already gave my take on it. Making it more feasible ~= giving credits literally for free as a login reward. Nobody even remotely suggested that.

As for the whole "what's the point in doing <insert hard thing here> if they change it!?" argument ... Uh, because it'll still be much faster? The same reason people do it now?

• Imperian has boss killing for faster daily credits, while also still having the easier 'hunt a lot' method for people who want to do that instead. Participation in both is about the same.
• Lusternia has a frankly disgusting amount of quests that award anywhere from 1-10 daily credits (20 cap), depending on difficulty. Yet people still group up for a lot of things, because it's faster than running around and hoping people haven't done the quests in the past <x> hours.
• Disregarding IRE games, pretty much any other game on the market that has daily tasks, follows the same principle of being relatively easy to complete solo while still being much easier and quicker in a group.
  

No matter what they do, if group stuff has a higher reward:time spent ratio then there'll always be a lot of people who flock towards that because it's quicker and they can get it out of the way easier. Trying to pose the 'what if' argument to the contrary, is flawed at best. Just to clarify, I am not against this, I already said grouping up to complete it should be quicker than solo. Currently, though, the gap between soloing and grouping is fucking ridiculous.

Cobault

Y'all got big mad, huh? Lmao.

Like I said though, most of you aren't happy with anything they do to begin with so, whatev. Ungrateful ass people wanting more and more and more XD

Kog

Pyori said:

Rackham said:

Pyori said:

This has nothing whatsoever to do with entitlement, lol. I have no clue why you're so eager to throw that word around as if it adds weight to your argument. It is possible to like the premise of a system, while still criticising the rather large flaws in it.

What's your take on just handing out the free 20 credits then? People wouldn't be so upset on 'missing out' on that sweet, sweet credit cap if it was lower. Drop it to 10, then everybody can hit it.

Just to clarify, I am not against this, I already said grouping up to complete it should be quicker than solo. Currently, though, the gap between soloing and grouping is fucking ridiculous.

I can definitely get behind this. I really, really like soloing content, especially stuff that you shouldn't be able to solo. I spent long hours on Destiny in a private group, kicking out anyone who joined, soloing the Nightfalls- not because it was good for loot, but because it was doable and more rewarding/fun for me. A lot of the current adventures don't feel doable - even if you struggle and work hard at it - or at least aren't accessible in the amount of time I can be at a keyboard.

Atalkez

Cobault said:

Y'all got big mad, huh? Lmao.

Like I said though, most of you aren't happy with anything they do to begin with so, whatev. Ungrateful ass people wanting more and more and more XD

No one got mad but you little man.

Namino

I would happily give up my ability to earn even one daily credit if it meant every person with a sub 4000 escrow got 20 bcr every single day.

I don't want more.

Not for me, anyway.

Edit: I lied. I do want more. More people playin' this dumb game.

Cobault

Atalkez said:

Cobault said:

Y'all got big mad, huh? Lmao.

Like I said though, most of you aren't happy with anything they do to begin with so, whatev. Ungrateful ass people wanting more and more and more XD

No one got mad but you little man.

Far from it bruh, but aight. Lol.

Minifie

Cobault said:

Pyori said:

Cobault said:

tl;dr, your attitude hasn't even remotely changed in the time you were away, like you tried so very hard to say it did.

Frankly, if I'm agreeing this hard with Namino, there's something strange. My retire value would be well over double yours, if I didn't tradein a ton of artifacts and change class 300 times. I couldn't care less if a new player got to that point quickly, if it means having more people to actually play with. Your mindset is by far the minority, sorry.

eta: Because I only just noticed it, when I logged into portal ... Can we not have the game MESSAGE you on completion of everything. Pls thx.

You're the most toxic player I've met in this game in a while so I'm not too bothered by how you feel about me.

Cobault said:

Y'all got big mad, huh? Lmao.

Like I said though, most of you aren't happy with anything they do to begin with so, whatev. Ungrateful ass people wanting more and more and more XD

Cobault

I never said I wasn't toxic, I dunno where anyone is getting that from?
I'm still an asshole. That's nothing new. I'm selfish, also nothing new. I've changed a lot from how I was years ago (lol, this is just for you since you're so obsessed with how I was in the past Pyori. Do I know you intimately or something???) but I'm still the same guy ultimately.
But toxic recognize toxic and I for real haven't gotten mad at this shit at all. Y'all are hilarious how upset you get over this forum garbage and trying to tell people how they should feel. I'm bout to do the same thing I did earlier today: Throw some kerosene on this here fire and close forums out, open it probably tomorrow afternoon or something to see the damage done, laugh and spark it back up. Not a big deal!