Third Black Wave: Electric Boogaloo

Iloisee

Minifie said:

IMO a lot of players for this event have been riding the coattails of just hoping either admin or someone else will carry the story to the point, and just expecting things would resolve with minimal effort. At the start there was some awesome FFA for fragments, then it pushed into working as a game, leading towards a coalition, which has stagnated and accepted its existence since anything they do they can hide behind, "The Tsol'teth is a big threat and we plan to stop it!" So far though, Hashan has been the only city to grab the opportunity with both hands, run against the grain and really challenge this event. Mhaldor did to a lesser extent, but it was more to the point of "It's just how the City is", and less to do with the event itself.

I do think the players will frequently pick the path of least resistance, and it is starting to show just how true this is as the event progresses on. There's been a lot of twists, turns and opportunities to really cause some serious friction and compelling drama between factions in an IC manner that could lead to a heap of continual admin interaction with denizens, Tsol and players, but it just seems like outside of a small group of players, the event is just treated like a holiday event in WoW: wait for the content part to drop and devour it, not really expand on potential avenues that can come from it. I think there's a lot that could be done with this event, but its' starting to get to the point where I think the opportunity has either passed the players, or we are just waiting for the conclusion to happen. Either way, it started off really strong, and I had some of the best city mate and enemy interactions in a while, but has definitely turfed way harder than I expected.

For my part I've been trying to do research and find some additional THING we can be doing. Usually there is something, even if super obscure, that is key to the puzzle, yeah? But it's been difficult with limited time and the continual push to clear Tide. Idk, sometimes I want to say "Let the researchers do some research" but then again, keeping it back is important too...

Caelan

Asmodron said:

Currently in Achaea, there is no form of flight-based vessel of war,

Dunn

Given how events have been designed in the past, there's no right or wrong. Any insistence to the contrary is a circle jerk.

Jinos

I'm not sure the Coalition gives Mhaldor much thought currently.

Mhaldor stands alone. Continues to talk about standing alone.

After a point I think most of the other cities just accepted this flatly, and divert resources to plunder fragments when needed, and dispatch Mhaldorian's in the crusades as necessary.

Sure a few say that Mhaldor is indirectly aiding the Tsol'teth by going their own way, but for the most part the general populace is indifferent to Mhaldor's narrative in this.

At least that is what I've noticed so far. I wish things were different. It'd be nice if there was some sort of communication with Mhaldor. Full of snark, barbs, grudging tolerence, some outright intolerance etc, but still communication nonetheless.

Synthus

So, as a sort of a light-hearted digression, I realized last night that since the Tsol'teth took Cyrene I've been listening to the Destiny 2 Soundtrack an awful lot in the background as I play now. 

I'm sure that's had no impact at all on galvanizing Synthus into wanting to learn combat and take the fight to the Tsol'teth, but man does the track "Journey" now carry a different meaning for me now. 

Jiraishin

Iloisee said:

Siduri said:

Nahhh, paint yourself any way you want, but no one besides Mhaldor is buying it. Sorry!

That used to bother me because we really aren't helping the Tsol'teth, even objectively. We kill them the same as you, we wreck Tide the same as you. We just don't hold back because we're not allied with the coalition or anyone, and I think that's how they want it too.

However, I've realized ICly it makes sense so it's totally fine if the entire coalition has the wrong idea. I just recommend against diverting your resources to attack us because it will do nothing but potentially drain the resources of another Tsol'teth enemy.

Ofc, this should all be said IC. But nobody asks to Iloisee! (Except her BAMF aunties.)

I think the chain of thought is that you attack us while we're trying to attack the tsol'teth, which means you're hindering us fighting the tsol'teth, which means you're helping the tsol'teth. 'You' being 'Mhaldorians' in this case.

Which is a valid RP choice on Mhaldor's part, to be clear. And hey, more enemies means more snipe kills for me.

[Deleted User]

Jiraishin said:

Which is a valid RP choice on Mhaldor's part, to be clear. And hey, more enemies means more bell kills for @Penwize.

Oh yez!

Astarod

Jinos said:

I'm not sure the Coalition gives Mhaldor much thought currently.

Mhaldor stands alone. Continues to talk about standing alone.

After a point I think most of the other cities just accepted this flatly, and divert resources to plunder fragments when needed, and dispatch Mhaldorian's in the crusades as necessary.

Sure a few say that Mhaldor is indirectly aiding the Tsol'teth by going their own way, but for the most part the general populace is indifferent to Mhaldor's narrative in this.

At least that is what I've noticed so far. I wish things were different. It'd be nice if there was some sort of communication with Mhaldor. Full of snark, barbs, grudging tolerence, some outright intolerance etc, but still communication nonetheless.

What Jinos is saying politely is that Mhaldor is inconsequential at the moment. Lacking any real military pressure on the Coalition, Hashan, or the Tsol'teth, they really only exist to serve as an annoyance when they need fragments, and to be dealt with accordingly. 

If Mhaldor tries a 'big play' or something, sure, I'm positive they'll get back on the event radar, but currently it's more of a 'lets just make sure mhaldor doesn't get fog so we don't get punished' at the moment. At least it feels that way to the average person, at least. 

Edit: Here is the exact clip from the "Tsol'teth" that aptly describes Mhaldor in this event: 

Interference by shi-Mhaldor proved predictably inconsequential and was quickly disposed of.

I mean you know things are bad when Tary comes and is like, please don't attack us while we attack Hashan. 

Zbaco

Adrik said:

Ngl. I burned myself out on this event.  Nigh unkillable enemies and the never ending NEED to keep the tide back has done me in.

I spent 12~ hours fighting the tide back, but everyone went lets raid hashan daily, and in that, over a weeks worth of work just went up in smoke.

There are a few mechanics I'd love changed.

Tide shrines, when spawned, spawn in tide engulfed rooms. No more dealing with having to let tide seep to it.

Tide can no longer seep into digsites. This one is just courtesy.

The orb that forces the tide to not spread in an area. Please. Even if ours is only a fraction as powerful as the one Parni made. Plz let us make an area immune to tide for an hour or six. (Fragments being combined in an area creates the barrier? Idk.)

Thats all i have right now. I'm still burnt out, but i might come back from city of heroes if something changes to make dealing with the tide less soul sucking.

Don't beat yourself up over that...just like last time, keeping the Tide back is somewhat of an exercise in futility, as we can only keep up the fight for so long before we have to take a break, and all the admin has to do is press a button and poof, the rooms we just spent hours clearing are filled with Tide again, or the spread rate is increased so that even the entire playerbase working together couldn't contain it.

Best to just do what you can but don't burn yourself out...contribute to the event where you can, and in the meantime take advantage of the good gold and experience

Melodie

Jinos said:

I'm not sure the Coalition gives Mhaldor much thought currently.

Mhaldor stands alone. Continues to talk about standing alone.

After a point I think most of the other cities just accepted this flatly, and divert resources to plunder fragments when needed, and dispatch Mhaldorian's in the crusades as necessary.

Sure a few say that Mhaldor is indirectly aiding the Tsol'teth by going their own way, but for the most part the general populace is indifferent to Mhaldor's narrative in this.

At least that is what I've noticed so far. I wish things were different. It'd be nice if there was some sort of communication with Mhaldor. Full of snark, barbs, grudging tolerence, some outright intolerance etc, but still communication nonetheless.

 I think the whole point Illoisee, and others, are trying to make is that from our end, the coalition basically equates us to be Hashan in terms of 'badness'. While that may not be technically correct, when you're raided for multiple hours because you're trying to get ahold of fragments to put up your barrier again (mind, sometimes we killed people for them and people do decide to make us pay for that, that's fine, but there's other times where we were just legit gathering them off mobs/areas), it sure doesn't feel like you're "inconsequential". This isn't the only example where we've raised our eyebrows and asked, "Why are they after us, exactly?", just the one I most easily had on hand.

Personally, I've found every portion except the fragments and the random dogpiling to be pretty fun. But I know different strokes different folks, so a not-so-fun-for-me part of an event while everything else is interesting is all right.

Edit: Changed quoting, was more talking to Jinos than whatever the hell Astarod is on about.

Taryius

Jiraishin said:

I think the chain of thought is that you attack us while we're trying to attack the tsol'teth, which means you're hindering us fighting the tsol'teth, which means you're helping the tsol'teth. 'You' being 'Mhaldorians' in this case.

That is pretty much the chain of thought for everyone here, Mhaldor's definitely used the same chain of thought when we got attacked by the coalition for our fragments, and during our crusade against Tlalalalaaiaiad. 

What Jinos is saying politely is that Mhaldor is inconsequential at the moment. Lacking any real military pressure on the Coalition, Hashan, or the Tsol'teth, they really only exist to serve as an annoyance when they need fragments, and to be dealt with accordingly. 

If Mhaldor tries a 'big play' or something, sure, I'm positive they'll get back on the event radar, but currently it's more of a 'lets just make sure mhaldor doesn't get fog so we don't get punished' at the moment. At least it feels that way to the average person, at least. 

Edit: Here is the exact clip from the "Tsol'teth" that aptly describes Mhaldor in this event: 

Interference by shi-Mhaldor proved predictably inconsequential and was quickly disposed of.

I mean you know things are bad when Tary comes and is like, please don't attack us while we attack Hashan. 

Again, I'll reiterate that these conversations are better meant to happen IG, and not get brought to the forums like they do every bloody time, for gods sake people. But I will say, you should probably refrain on commenting on things you don't know about. It's also generally a poor assumption for anyone to assume a world event is revolving around only their side.

Aegoth

Pretty sure that if any other org was standing alone, they'd be just as "inconsequential" as Mhaldor. We're doing pretty amazing for the cards we've been dealt (You try saying "no" to Sartan), and for people to continuously disparage our efforts in spite of the odds is pretty telling of a larger problem on their part. I'm actually pretty disappointed in your shittalk, @Astarod, firstly because it's demoralising to see as a player, and secondly because you're taking the easy path to victory anyway. It must be nice, surrounded by 50-odd other people, to see how "inconsequential" one faction's might alone is. Try putting on the same shoe before you talk shit, and also consider that these are also your fellow players. I will never, for the life of me, understand why people hold grudges against Organisations OOCly

Also, I'll take "Things Taryius would never say" for $800, Alex

Torinn

Kinda the whole point of the tsol'teth is that you can't take them alone.  I get that 'Sartan Sez So' but it's still obvious there is no impact a single org can have against them 

Taryius

Torinn said:

Kinda the whole point of the tsol'teth is that you can't take them alone.  I get that 'Sartan Sez So' but it's still obvious there is no impact a single org can have against them 

That sounds like a challenge!

Melodie

I'm pretty sure if your admin tells you you can do this alone, you can. Otherwise, what would be the point?

Torinn

Go get em tiger! 

Cooper

Torinn said:

Kinda the whole point of the tsol'teth is that you can't take them alone.

Not true, see my honours line.

Also, it makes me giggle that everyone thinks IC and OOC Mhaldor isn't doing anything to help.

I promise you guys that without Mhaldor clearing the Tide where we have been, Sapience would be in waaaaaay more danger than it is now. We also haven't had a single "oh shit the Tide is almost to us" moment yet.

Iloisee

Even though a few people can whack a Tsol'teth in a team, they are, overall, impossibly difficult to kill, and they come back. I do not think we're going to win this by might (but a coalition was an interesting development and is useful for more than just combat) but with our brains. I just don't think the admin expect us to fight them indefinitely until they get bored and move the plot along... But they may if we take long enough!

So not being part of every mass "[Player] has been slain by the psychic whatsit of Trusad'an" deathsight doesn't bother me in the slightest. I just want more time to investigate.

Also @Astarod, @Jinos has never struck me as a butt, and he probably said exactly what he meant to say! But if we are "off the radar" that's a relief for me because it surely means there will be no more 4-hour guard bashing sessions.

Torinn

But just think what if someone in the coalition has the piece you need for your puzzle? 

Astarod

Aegoth said:

Pretty sure that if any other org was standing alone, they'd be just as "inconsequential" as Mhaldor. We're doing pretty amazing for the cards we've been dealt (You try saying "no" to Sartan), and for people to continuously disparage our efforts in spite of the odds is pretty telling of a larger problem on their part. I'm actually pretty disappointed in your shittalk, @Astarod, firstly because it's demoralising to see as a player, and secondly because you're taking the easy path to victory anyway. It must be nice, surrounded by 50-odd other people, to see how "inconsequential" one faction's might alone is. Try putting on the same shoe before you talk shit, and also consider that these are also your fellow players. I will never, for the life of me, understand why people hold grudges against Organisations OOCly

Also, I'll take "Things Taryius would never say" for $800, Alex

Oh Aegoth, you know I don't mind you guys out of character! Lets not forget I raved about both Cooper and Taryius just yesterday! Admittedly, I do have a 'mittens off' perspective with Mhaldor as a city because of how I see you guys joke and jest, and 'shit talk' on forums. I, for one, have had the privilege of being in the exact position you are, except there was no world event, Mhaldor just decided to guard bash because no one wanted to play with them. 

Now, I'm not saying Mhaldor has to be punished, but I mean, lets not pretend that Mhaldor is ever a victim. It comes with the "We are Evil!" gig. As much as I see people disparaging Mhaldor for being, "Mhaldor", I see Mhaldor disparaging others for having the gall to try to work together against a realmwide enemy. For all the people who are far less skilled than what is necessary for this event, being in a group is all they have. 

Just sayin'. If you can't really take it, then you really shouldn't be dishing it out. You certainly shouldn't be taking it personally as a player- and if I made that unclear, I'm sorry I made you feel demoralized. 

Jiraishin

Can we go back to talking about aerial invasions now?

Iloisee

Torinn said:

But just think what if someone in the coalition has the piece you need for your puzzle? 

Unless that piece is an artie or more than 20 ferments (edit: fragments, yes) I can probably still grasp it if I'm smart enough!

Astarod

Jiraishin said:

Can we go back to talking about aerial invasions now?

Well I was going to comment that penwize has an Air Force. I’m pretty sure they can damage people out as a unit lol.

the eagles!

Mroxyl

I'm enjoying watching the Coalition dynamic. Lots of helping out in a pinch, with a nice bit of 'yeah, taking notes for when this is over with, buddy' going on.  The occasional 'I'd come help you defend, but I'm enemied to your city' is funny, especially when the defenders won't drop enemy status to let someone come help defend fragments.

I'm ready for it to move forward, though. Announcing the games could be a couple of years late, due to this, means we could be looking at another real world month or so of Tide? Not to mention what sort of third world, burned out wreck is Cyrene getting back? I'm guessing in-game years of grinding out more gold and credits to rebuild it, and still not having what we lost. Very sincerely hoping it happens to every other city, so those who say 'just move to another city' get the same fun.

Jinos

What I'm trying to put into words is that people are seeing Mhaldor as an obstacle at the moment, and not a nation that we all co-exist with.

This is partly due to the multitasking on fighting the tide, and dropping the meld shrines among all the other things going on, that if Mhaldor is doing something for the continent other than being a target for certain objectives the rest of the population hasn't noticed. Mostly because everyone is distracted by other things.

I personally have a hard time keeping track of what's going on between helping the people of Cyrene adjust to the absence of the city, ensuring I don't waste my unwind, and assisting with fighting and rezzing when I can. Plus we're all looking into methods of trying to subvert the Tsol'teth maneuvers. 

Mhaldor has valid RP reasons to go their own way. Even without their Divine saying so.

I'm sure as things progress we'll move past this stage of multitasking and speculation.

And yes, they'll be handled in game, because at the end of the day we love this crazy world more than we love distracting ourselves from our daily routines by trudging through the forums. 

Tasus

Astarod said:

Jiraishin said:

Can we go back to talking about aerial invasions now?

Well I was going to comment that penwize has an Air Force. I’m pretty sure they can damage people out as a unit lol.

the eagles!

Speaking from experience here... they can. And have. 

Dynos

Zbaco said:

Adrik said:

Ngl. I burned myself out on this event.  Nigh unkillable enemies and the never ending NEED to keep the tide back has done me in.

I spent 12~ hours fighting the tide back, but everyone went lets raid hashan daily, and in that, over a weeks worth of work just went up in smoke.

There are a few mechanics I'd love changed.

Tide shrines, when spawned, spawn in tide engulfed rooms. No more dealing with having to let tide seep to it.

Tide can no longer seep into digsites. This one is just courtesy.

The orb that forces the tide to not spread in an area. Please. Even if ours is only a fraction as powerful as the one Parni made. Plz let us make an area immune to tide for an hour or six. (Fragments being combined in an area creates the barrier? Idk.)

Thats all i have right now. I'm still burnt out, but i might come back from city of heroes if something changes to make dealing with the tide less soul sucking.

Don't beat yourself up over that...just like last time, keeping the Tide back is somewhat of an exercise in futility, as we can only keep up the fight for so long before we have to take a break, and all the admin has to do is press a button and poof, the rooms we just spent hours clearing are filled with Tide again, or the spread rate is increased so that even the entire playerbase working together couldn't contain it.

Best to just do what you can but don't burn yourself out...contribute to the event where you can, and in the meantime take advantage of the good gold and experience

I completely agree with Zbaco here- people, please don't burn yourself out on fighting tide.

@Adrik- you've been awesome out there dropping shrines and it was great having you coordinating so much of it- I hope you come back to help play out where this story goes. 

IC wise- Aside from there being a direct connection to resolving the current state of affairs, I think the constant tide and shrines is suppose to accomplish a few things:
1) Create an atmosphere of threat and reminder of the current state of affairs.
2) In a way, story/character progression wise, it -is- there to grind your characters resolve and make you question ICly "what the hell are we doing here- is this even what we should be focused on?"
3) Give some people a point to focus on that makes them feel like they're apart of the event. Some folks can't or have no interest in PvP, and aren't familiar with how to interact with denizens and admins to drive the overall plot forward- fighting tide and dropping shrines in places they care about is a way to defend against the Tsol'teth vs just read about other people adventures on the news boards.

Mechanically wise- I like that the tide spawns enemies that are 'manageable' and geared towards the individuals level. In line with point 3, some people and novices don't have the levels or learned skills (character abilities- not coding/combat knowledge) to partake in stuff like the crusades or direct conflict raids and Tsol'teth fights- gearing the tide creatures to the individual is a good way to include the level 20's all the way to 160 (or whatever record Penwize has currently set). Would be nice to have a way to hold it back for a little while from certain location- maybe there is.

In short- don't forget to take a break from tide duty, grab a drink (or don't), kick back and recover a little- and maybe scheme with someone ideas of what else to do . 

Armali

There's an easy way to clear huge swathes of tide relatively painless. I did it for a bit and I was wondering why no one else was.

Telendrieth

Aegoth said:

 consider that these are also your fellow players. I will never, for the life of me, understand why people hold grudges against Organisations OOCly

I can see both sides of the coin there to some degree at least. Some of the things players and cities do create a pretty awful game experience for other players. I try not to have any animosity towards players myself, but I know I struggle with remembering some players aren't selfish d-bags and do legitimately care about other aspects of the game aside from what they are currently playing. @Syndra reminded me that even non Cyrenians can get misty eyed and have an emotional moment seeing misfortune befall Blu, at a time where I've had a lot of people respond to me ICly with "Fuck Cyrene, who cares what happens to them?". I agree with you though, we're all here playing the same game. (That said.. ICly Telendrieth may have a lot of a prejudice against Hashani going forward)

Not relevant to above, but just something I've been thinking about with this event and current discussions. It confuses me when a faction chooses to play the bad guy, but then also complains when they aren't able to participate in the event like normal. If you kneel before Sidious, why would you expect the Rebel alliance to still welcome you at their table, yanno? This got me thinking about the elemental plane events and when Mhaldor tried to corrupt the water orb. I think there were only 2-3 people I saw bitch about having repercussions for those actions, but the vast majority of Mhaldor accepted that they got to do a damn cool thing and paid a price for it. Kudos to those players. 

Adrik

Bcz it feels super cheap to Tide Bait with a novice. Feels more like abuse of mechanics.