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Third Black Wave: Electric Boogaloo

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  • MinifieMinifie
    “The Coalition” reminds me of the heel organization of the wcw-ecw alliance, everytime I hear that name I just keep hearing the glass shatter of Stone Cold running out to open a can of whoop-ass on ‘em.
  • LennLenn
    You're assuming the meeting was solely about fighting the tsol'teth.
  • ArmaliArmali
    Maybe Colbey has ALREADY BEEN LITANY'D.
  • AsmodronAsmodron
    edited April 2019
    Tesha said:
    I was more wondering why Hashani were still allowed to spectate, the Coalition was very concerned about that. It's one thing for the possibility of spying to be present, and another thing entirely for it to be completely allowed with peace rooms preventing any recourse. I thought Krizal's "I just came to flip you guys off" and departure were amazingly stylish, but somewhat undermined by the few Hashani who stayed behind.

    It seems pretty reasonable for the consequences of allying with the Tsol'teth to include definitively not being trusted at a meeting planning how to fight the Tsol'teth, so I was pretty stunned Hashani were allowed despite the repeated concerns and protests. It really made the meeting feel like it was more for show than anything else, since there was no way to even try to keep the information from reaching the Tsol'teth. I also think it sort of detracted from the experience for Hashani more than included them, since it eliminated the need for any sort of subtlety or spying, you could just sit in the safe room instead.

    Just my thoughts on the matter! I thought the Imp Lord was adorable.
    I'd like to address some points made here.

    - As for Hashani being there and others being uncomfortable :

    I find this to be more of a personal issue based on misunderstanding the purpose of the meeting. It was stated several times by Colbey that the meeting is -not- to discuss tactical war plans and strategies..but rather the events that have happened and to try to gather more information. Something that ended up not going so well.

    - Information could reach the Tsol'teth:

    The Tsol'teth have been 2 steps head from the start. If they want to find out information, they dont need adventurer spies.

    - Detached Hashani from the experience:

    You stated Krizal gave the finger and left, but I'm not sure you understand why. I'll leave it to her to explain but frankly the attitude expected there by some players....which indeed showcased itself repeatedly...was a very good reason why someone would not want to be involved.

    As for other Hashani, it was a game event, if anything they were just enjoying it like all else.

    - My opinion:

    Frankly having seen the meeting...it was more a let down by the players there than the admin. Colbey, Mhunna and Nissa tried to steer it into unique points of view but it was met with the same attitude.

    Just my responses on the matter.
  • ArmaliArmali
    Maybe we deserve to lose.
  • ElisellaElisella
    The enemy faction has to lose at some point, otherwise, the entire game ends because every faction's win condition is apocalyptic for the others.

    It's the gentleman's/gentlewoman's agreement of being the antagonist: You get to have fun, and then you get beat up by everybody until you pinkie swear never to do it again, at least until everybody stops teaming up to beat you.
  • ArmaliArmali
    Krizal said:
    Asmodron said:
    You stated Krizal gave the finger and left, but I'm not sure you understand why. I'll leave it to her to explain but frankly the attitude expected there by some players....which indeed showcased itself repeatedly...was a very good reason why someone would not want to be involved.
    No, to flip off the Coalition was definitely the biggest reason. It wouldn't have made sense to stick around for a meeting to talk about how to fight off the Tsol'teth. Stop talking about things you weren't even there for! :P  
    Lol, UNDERMINED. 

    @Asmodron, I know you're passionate, but you don't have to meta-defend every decision that Hashan makes.
  • AsmodronAsmodron
    edited April 2019
    Armali said:
    Krizal said:
    Asmodron said:
    You stated Krizal gave the finger and left, but I'm not sure you understand why. I'll leave it to her to explain but frankly the attitude expected there by some players....which indeed showcased itself repeatedly...was a very good reason why someone would not want to be involved.
    No, to flip off the Coalition was definitely the biggest reason. It wouldn't have made sense to stick around for a meeting to talk about how to fight off the Tsol'teth. Stop talking about things you weren't even there for! :P  
    Lol, UNDERMINED. 

    Asmodron, I know you're passionate, but you don't have to meta-defend every decision that Hashan makes.

    In my defense I meant that I would not have wanted to stick around in that attitude, and assumed that's why she also choose not to. :P

    Was my mistake there to assume. The rest though I fully stick by ^_^

    The finger flipping is cool though.
  • CaelanCaelan
    Elisella said:
    The enemy faction has to lose at some point, otherwise, the entire game ends because every faction's win condition is apocalyptic for the others.

    It's the gentleman's/gentlewoman's agreement of being the antagonist: You get to have fun, and then you get beat up by everybody until you pinkie swear never to do it again, at least until everybody stops teaming up to beat you.
    Unless Starmourn was the last-ditch effort and IRE has gone under for good..and they just wanted a fun way to kill us on their way out the door before they get the lights. [/conspiracy]

  • TasusTasus
    Cooper said:
    Mezghar is good people.

    If we're giving shout outs to extra important people, I feel like @Ysela needs given some massive credit.

    She has half the time most of us have to play, and gets done 5x as much because of how she organizes, thinks, and then acts. It is very awesome having someone in charge that is able to keep us talking and running somewhat smoothly during this massive amount of chaos.

    @Palusa for wanting to be efficient while sacrificing personal gain (don't worry, I got you covered!)

    @Syndra for having bigger balls than me, and being willing to coordinate attacks versus absolutely insane odds

    @Proficy for always being there, being reliable, and knowing when to let me lean on you, and when to lean on me. Plus we do all sorts of big boi stuff that makes the game incredibly fun. 

    @Davok I know you're catching flak for the role you're currently playing, but it is refreshing! 

    There are a lot more in Mhaldor doing good things, and I apologize in advance for undoubtedly missing one of you: 

    @Taryius @Stheno @Tasus  @Ailea @Thule all of you have done or said something I've found massively important during the event, so thank you! 

    My break is over, I'll try to tag more later because I ran out of time
    Not sure what I did, but thanks for being so helpful, Cooper!
  • IloiseeIloisee
    edited April 2019
    Cooper said:
    Mezghar is good people.

    If we're giving shout outs to extra important people, I feel like @Ysela needs given some massive credit.

    She has half the time most of us have to play, and gets done 5x as much because of how she organizes, thinks, and then acts. It is very awesome having someone in charge that is able to keep us talking and running somewhat smoothly during this massive amount of chaos.

    @Palusa for wanting to be efficient while sacrificing personal gain (don't worry, I got you covered!)

    @Syndra for having bigger balls than me, and being willing to coordinate attacks versus absolutely insane odds

    @Proficy for always being there, being reliable, and knowing when to let me lean on you, and when to lean on me. Plus we do all sorts of big boi stuff that makes the game incredibly fun. 

    @Davok I know you're catching flak for the role you're currently playing, but it is refreshing! 

    There are a lot more in Mhaldor doing good things, and I apologize in advance for undoubtedly missing one of you: 

    @Taryius @Stheno @Tasus  @Ailea @Thule all of you have done or said something I've found massively important during the event, so thank you! 

    My break is over, I'll try to tag more later because I ran out of time
    Agreed, all of the above deserve kudos and def a few more (@Minifie comes to mind for event, and @Doromath for some great 1:1 conversations.) As tiring as some of the challenges can be, all of my engagement is thanks to you guys. 

    I should also add that @Farrah has been fielding most of my antagonism, and while the conversations are far from friendly or productive, it's been exciting to argue with the Dawnlord. I'll try to cut back though. :P
  • AsmodronAsmodron
    Farrah said:
    Asmodron said:
    Tesha said:
    I was more wondering why Hashani were still allowed to spectate, the Coalition was very concerned about that. It's one thing for the possibility of spying to be present, and another thing entirely for it to be completely allowed with peace rooms preventing any recourse. I thought Krizal's "I just came to flip you guys off" and departure were amazingly stylish, but somewhat undermined by the few Hashani who stayed behind.

    It seems pretty reasonable for the consequences of allying with the Tsol'teth to include definitively not being trusted at a meeting planning how to fight the Tsol'teth, so I was pretty stunned Hashani were allowed despite the repeated concerns and protests. It really made the meeting feel like it was more for show than anything else, since there was no way to even try to keep the information from reaching the Tsol'teth. I also think it sort of detracted from the experience for Hashani more than included them, since it eliminated the need for any sort of subtlety or spying, you could just sit in the safe room instead.

    Just my thoughts on the matter! I thought the Imp Lord was adorable.
    I'd like to address some points made here.

    - As for Hashani being there and others being uncomfortable :

    I find this to be more of a personal issue based on misunderstanding the purpose of the meeting. It was stated several times by Colbey that the meeting is -not- to discuss tactical war plans and strategies..but rather the events that have happened and to try to gather more information. Something that ended up not going so well.

    - Information could reach the Tsol'teth:

    The Tsol'teth have been 2 steps head from the start. If they want to find out information, they dont need adventurer spies.

    - Detached Hashani from the experience:

    You stated Krizal gave the finger and left, but I'm not sure you understand why. I'll leave it to her to explain but frankly the attitude expected there by some players....which indeed showcased itself repeatedly...was a very good reason why someone would not want to be involved.

    As for other Hashani, it was a game event, if anything they were just enjoying it like all else.

    - My opinion:

    Frankly having seen the meeting...it was more a let down by the players there than the admin. Colbey, Mhunna and Nissa tried to steer it into unique points of view but it was met with the same attitude.

    Just my responses on the matter.


    Part of the meeting's purpose was actually specifically to discuss "strategy." One of the questions, for example, was about strategies to oppose the Litany, and that is also why Krizal would not attend (not wishing to contribute to strategizing against Hashan's new friends).

    I'm not really sure what "player attitude" you are criticizing, though. I did not find any players involved to be petty, disruptive, or rude, and everything was kept pretty in character. Opposing your city's IC decision for valid IC reasons is not a poor player attitude. Just like the Mhunna suggested alliance at the meeting, and other denizens recoiled at the thought. There is no single correct way players have to act in this kind of circumstance...

    My point here was pretty simple, people were either being tight-lipped because they didnt want to discuss out of a sense of "others will hear", or because they were untrusting. It seemed silly because if the Tsol'teth wanted to know what was being discussed...somewhere..then they easily could. There was a general sense in that meeting of something more wanted from the players, at least imo, which seemed on point when Colbey said that not as much information was gained as he liked.

    The Krizal thing as I said was an assumption. Player attitude however...not going to really touch that because it'll just be drama for no reason.
  • FarrahFarrah
    One piece of information Colbey directly expressed that he wanted was information from Hashan regarding what the Tsol'teth offered and insight into their goals. So, you are blaming other cities for not contributing when we actually did, and yours did not. I am not blaming you for not. It was fine from an RP standpoint. But your criticism of other players is odd, under the circumstances.
  • AsmodronAsmodron
    edited April 2019
    Farrah said:
    One piece of information Colbey directly expressed that he wanted was information from Hashan regarding what the Tsol'teth offered and insight into their goals. So, you are blaming other cities for not contributing when we actually did, and yours did not. I am not blaming you for not. It was fine from an RP standpoint. But your criticism of other players is odd, under the circumstances.
    I suppose we'll just have to disagree on it. I believe the players there could definitely have given more to the discussion, but it felt it wasnt really going anywhere nor did the players want to try new suggestions imo.
  • SiduriSiduri
    Besides, Gattan'bahar has a whisperstone. I mentionned as much to the White Wave, saying "Hashani or not, they'll hear. Let's share." I know that, to my knowledge, we actually pretty much fielded the sum of our knowledge.

    image
  • MinifieMinifie
    IMO a lot of players for this event have been riding the coattails of just hoping either admin or someone else will carry the story to the point, and just expecting things would resolve with minimal effort. At the start there was some awesome FFA for fragments, then it pushed into working as a game, leading towards a coalition, which has stagnated and accepted its existence since anything they do they can hide behind, "The Tsol'teth is a big threat and we plan to stop it!" So far though, Hashan has been the only city to grab the opportunity with both hands, run against the grain and really challenge this event. Mhaldor did to a lesser extent, but it was more to the point of "It's just how the City is", and less to do with the event itself.

    I do think the players will frequently pick the path of least resistance, and it is starting to show just how true this is as the event progresses on. There's been a lot of twists, turns and opportunities to really cause some serious friction and compelling drama between factions in an IC manner that could lead to a heap of continual admin interaction with denizens, Tsol and players, but it just seems like outside of a small group of players, the event is just treated like a holiday event in WoW: wait for the content part to drop and devour it, not really expand on potential avenues that can come from it. I think there's a lot that could be done with this event, but its' starting to get to the point where I think the opportunity has either passed the players, or we are just waiting for the conclusion to happen. Either way, it started off really strong, and I had some of the best city mate and enemy interactions in a while, but has definitely turfed way harder than I expected.
  • MinifieMinifie
    Siduri said:
    Some people did experiment, but right now, I feel there's starting to be a bit of a burn out due to what feels like a bad D&D campaign's DMPCs curbstomping the party over and over. There's also a lot going on with fragments, meld shrines and their spread, crusades, raids. It's kind of hard to keep a sustained initiative long until something else comes to bug you. That, and Mhaldor helping the Tsol'teth by hindering everyone else isn't helping the spirits right now.
    That’s the issue though: just accepting “well mhaldor is helping them!” Is taking the easiest route out of exploring what has actually happened in this event. Mhaldor has actively done more to hinder/stop the Tsol’teth than eleusis or targossas, yet still branded as “traitors” because it’s a lot easier to just accept something easy than undertake the challenge necessary to push a much deeper and intricate path. Heaps of people want to be “an hero” and will suction onto the easiest path to feel like the protagonist of the story, but we are all antagonists, it’s just some are more accepting of that potential than others.
  • SiduriSiduri
    Nahhh, paint yourself any way you want, but no one besides Mhaldor is buying it. Sorry!

    image
  • MinifieMinifie
    edited April 2019
    That’s because of pure laziness/incompetence, nothing more. Probably need better leadership/spies/intel gatherers then. We’ve left breadcrumbs and made many of our positions known. 
  • JiraishinJiraishin skulking
    @Minifie just because I do things doesn't mean I'm going to let other people know about them, so your opinion may be skewed.

    [insert city--based insult here]
    ________________________
    The soul of Ashmond says, "Always with the sniping."

    (Clan): Ictinus says, "Stop it Jiraishin, you're making me like you."
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