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Third Black Wave: Electric Boogaloo

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  • MinifieMinifie Member Posts: 2,464 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Taryius said:
    Who would've thought that IC politics would seep to the forums, color me surprised.

    Mhaldor is doing exactly what Mhaldor should be doing as an antagonist, and evil faction in the game. Feel free to dislike it if you want, but I really hope no one thinks OOC character that Mhaldor wants to actually let the Tsol'teth win, and if you do you probably don't know much about the faction.

    Hold whatever IC thoughts you want based on actions, I actually really like the whole pointing fingers blame-game thats been happening IC, like the people who think/thought Targossas is working with the Tsol'teth cause of the staff and Deuc shrine being spared, but let's keep it IC where it can be used for the betterment of the game world.

    To be clear: my post was not about factions doing the “wrong” thing, just my opinion that part of the game that I enjoy most is the idea that there are so many counter-beliefs that there is always tension and hostility between factions. I’ve wanted to go hit Hashan for allying with the Tsol’teth but considering that both cities are targetted heavily it has been hard to drum up people to get in there. It’s easy to look from the outside that anyone’s actions are fine and can be RPed, but the path of most resistence for an event like this, IMO, would be the most enjoyable.


    (Mhaldor's Next Top Model): Taryius says, "Oops, thats not a foray. Thats two novices going at it in the wilderness."
    Taryius
  • MinifieMinifie Member Posts: 2,464 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Working with ashtan is by definition supporting it, since together you are actively working to keep the other’s existance alive as well. It makes complete IC sense that mhaldor and hashan would look at the coalition and say, “are Chaos and Good just fine with each other now?” From stories this happened last blackwave too, very little factional conflict, in a game that exists majority due to it, because beating the Tsol’teth is easiest done united. My point being that is definitely the path of least resistence, and players are taking it. Some haven’t, but a majority are.


    (Mhaldor's Next Top Model): Taryius says, "Oops, thats not a foray. Thats two novices going at it in the wilderness."
    AsmodronKrizal
  • JiraishinJiraishin skulkingMember Posts: 2,132 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Minifie said:
    Working with ashtan is by definition supporting it, since together you are actively working to keep the other’s existance alive as well. It makes complete IC sense that mhaldor and hashan would look at the coalition and say, “are Chaos and Good just fine with each other now?” From stories this happened last blackwave too, very little factional conflict, in a game that exists majority due to it, because beating the Tsol’teth is easiest done united. My point being that is definitely the path of least resistence, and players are taking it. Some haven’t, but a majority are.
    -squints-
    This is a bit of a reductionist viewpoint. I play a character with at best a vestigial conscience about things, but there's a lot you're missing even from that perspective.
    ________________________
    The soul of Ashmond says, "Always with the sniping."
  • MinifieMinifie Member Posts: 2,464 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Jiraishin said:
    Minifie said:
    Working with ashtan is by definition supporting it, since together you are actively working to keep the other’s existance alive as well. It makes complete IC sense that mhaldor and hashan would look at the coalition and say, “are Chaos and Good just fine with each other now?” From stories this happened last blackwave too, very little factional conflict, in a game that exists majority due to it, because beating the Tsol’teth is easiest done united. My point being that is definitely the path of least resistence, and players are taking it. Some haven’t, but a majority are.
    -squints-
    This is a bit of a reductionist viewpoint. I play a character with at best a vestigial conscience about things, but there's a lot you're missing even from that perspective.
    When the Tsol’teth are actively fighting, it can be a begrudging “it makes sense” IC, though not without disdain. When mhaldor hosts a crusade against Tlalaiad, no tsol’teth are around and the group works together, that is pointing that this alliance is working deeper than just, “tsol’teth are the greatest threat” ceasefire. 

    Working begrudgingly with each other makes sense to a point, working with each other against threats that are not directly Tsol’teth is much harder to sell. There still isn’t any conflict between 3 cities, to a point they’ll help each other. That is where the picture is painted in this scenario.


    (Mhaldor's Next Top Model): Taryius says, "Oops, thats not a foray. Thats two novices going at it in the wilderness."
  • JiraishinJiraishin skulkingMember Posts: 2,132 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited April 30
    Minifie said:
    Jiraishin said:
    Minifie said:
    Working with ashtan is by definition supporting it, since together you are actively working to keep the other’s existance alive as well. It makes complete IC sense that mhaldor and hashan would look at the coalition and say, “are Chaos and Good just fine with each other now?” From stories this happened last blackwave too, very little factional conflict, in a game that exists majority due to it, because beating the Tsol’teth is easiest done united. My point being that is definitely the path of least resistence, and players are taking it. Some haven’t, but a majority are.
    -squints-
    This is a bit of a reductionist viewpoint. I play a character with at best a vestigial conscience about things, but there's a lot you're missing even from that perspective.
    When the Tsol’teth are actively fighting, it can be a begrudging “it makes sense” IC, though not without disdain. When mhaldor hosts a crusade against Tlalaiad, no tsol’teth are around and the group works together, that is pointing that this alliance is working deeper than just, “tsol’teth are the greatest threat” ceasefire. 

    Working begrudgingly with each other makes sense to a point, working with each other against threats that are not directly Tsol’teth is much harder to sell. There still isn’t any conflict between 3 cities, to a point they’ll help each other. That is where the picture is painted in this scenario.
    I think you're working on the assumption that other groups have the same knowledge you have. They don't. After the fall of Cyrene, the general attitude I've seen is one of deep paranoia, both about the Tsol'teth and every adventurer city (due to the yet-unrevealed Collaborator and established interference). It's only deeper than 'tsol'eth are the greatest threat' in the sense of 'x force has to be dealt with, from very immediate experience, before we can start dealing with tsol'teth'. Your picture is painted from your IC perspective, possibly with limited OOC flourishes: The rest of us are wary of adding details because we don't know whether OOC things will be added (('m not good enough at metaphors to incorporate this, ok) ICly.
    ________________________
    The soul of Ashmond says, "Always with the sniping."
  • MinifieMinifie Member Posts: 2,464 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Jiraishin said:
    Minifie said:
    Jiraishin said:
    Minifie said:
    Working with ashtan is by definition supporting it, since together you are actively working to keep the other’s existance alive as well. It makes complete IC sense that mhaldor and hashan would look at the coalition and say, “are Chaos and Good just fine with each other now?” From stories this happened last blackwave too, very little factional conflict, in a game that exists majority due to it, because beating the Tsol’teth is easiest done united. My point being that is definitely the path of least resistence, and players are taking it. Some haven’t, but a majority are.
    -squints-
    This is a bit of a reductionist viewpoint. I play a character with at best a vestigial conscience about things, but there's a lot you're missing even from that perspective.
    When the Tsol’teth are actively fighting, it can be a begrudging “it makes sense” IC, though not without disdain. When mhaldor hosts a crusade against Tlalaiad, no tsol’teth are around and the group works together, that is pointing that this alliance is working deeper than just, “tsol’teth are the greatest threat” ceasefire. 

    Working begrudgingly with each other makes sense to a point, working with each other against threats that are not directly Tsol’teth is much harder to sell. There still isn’t any conflict between 3 cities, to a point they’ll help each other. That is where the picture is painted in this scenario.
    I think you're working on the assumption that other groups have the same knowledge you have. They don't. After the fall of Cyrene, the general attitude I've seen is one of deep paranoia, both about the Tsol'teth and every adventurer city (due to the yet-unrevealed Collaborator and established interference). It's only deeper than 'tsol'eth are the greatest threat' in the sense of 'x force has to be dealt with, from very immediate experience, before we can start dealing with tsol'teth'. Your picture is painted from your IC perspective, possibly with limited OOC flourishes: The rest of us are wary of adding details because we don't know whether OOC things will be added (('m not good enough at metaphors to incorporate this, ok) ICly.
    And that’s fine, I never said it wasn’t, I said it was the path of least resistance, and have said that it isn’t my preference to the event. Mhaldor doesn’t trust anyone, and there’s been MANY suspect actions, but who can you trust other than your own faction? Sure betrayers exist, but guaranteed the risk is lower that taryius will betray mhaldor than mezghar. 


    (Mhaldor's Next Top Model): Taryius says, "Oops, thats not a foray. Thats two novices going at it in the wilderness."
  • JiraishinJiraishin skulkingMember Posts: 2,132 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Minifie said:
    Jiraishin said:
    Minifie said:
    Jiraishin said:
    Minifie said:
    Working with ashtan is by definition supporting it, since together you are actively working to keep the other’s existance alive as well. It makes complete IC sense that mhaldor and hashan would look at the coalition and say, “are Chaos and Good just fine with each other now?” From stories this happened last blackwave too, very little factional conflict, in a game that exists majority due to it, because beating the Tsol’teth is easiest done united. My point being that is definitely the path of least resistence, and players are taking it. Some haven’t, but a majority are.
    -squints-
    This is a bit of a reductionist viewpoint. I play a character with at best a vestigial conscience about things, but there's a lot you're missing even from that perspective.
    When the Tsol’teth are actively fighting, it can be a begrudging “it makes sense” IC, though not without disdain. When mhaldor hosts a crusade against Tlalaiad, no tsol’teth are around and the group works together, that is pointing that this alliance is working deeper than just, “tsol’teth are the greatest threat” ceasefire. 

    Working begrudgingly with each other makes sense to a point, working with each other against threats that are not directly Tsol’teth is much harder to sell. There still isn’t any conflict between 3 cities, to a point they’ll help each other. That is where the picture is painted in this scenario.
    I think you're working on the assumption that other groups have the same knowledge you have. They don't. After the fall of Cyrene, the general attitude I've seen is one of deep paranoia, both about the Tsol'teth and every adventurer city (due to the yet-unrevealed Collaborator and established interference). It's only deeper than 'tsol'eth are the greatest threat' in the sense of 'x force has to be dealt with, from very immediate experience, before we can start dealing with tsol'teth'. Your picture is painted from your IC perspective, possibly with limited OOC flourishes: The rest of us are wary of adding details because we don't know whether OOC things will be added (('m not good enough at metaphors to incorporate this, ok) ICly.
    And that’s fine, I never said it wasn’t, I said it was the path of least resistance, and have said that it isn’t my preference to the event. Mhaldor doesn’t trust anyone, and there’s been MANY suspect actions, but who can you trust other than your own faction? Sure betrayers exist, but guaranteed the risk is lower that taryius will betray mhaldor than mezghar. 
    I dunno. Hasn't seemed like the path of least resistance at all to me. The long-suffering people who've had to deal with me can attest to this.

    Trust is for people who were never Naga.
    ________________________
    The soul of Ashmond says, "Always with the sniping."
    ShirszaeBoosteya
  • JiraishinJiraishin skulkingMember Posts: 2,132 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I badgered Han'tolneth till he responded at one point this event. Can't really call it a success since he super clearly wanted me to f off but I might just have asked the wrong questions :(
    ________________________
    The soul of Ashmond says, "Always with the sniping."
  • AsmodronAsmodron Member Posts: 3,081 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I'm just waiting to see which city is hit next. Come ooon saturday ^_^
  • SkyeSkye The Duchess BellatereMember, Seafaring Liason Posts: 3,081 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Money's on Eleusis, personally >_>


  • AsmodronAsmodron Member Posts: 3,081 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Skye said:
    Money's on Eleusis, personally >_>
    They seem to be selecting them based on which has pissed them off the most.

    Imma say Ash-toll-tan
  • MinifieMinifie Member Posts: 2,464 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Skye said:
    Minifie said:
    IMO a lot of players for this event have been riding the coattails of just hoping either admin or someone else will carry the story to the point, and just expecting things would resolve with minimal effort. At the start there was some awesome FFA for fragments, then it pushed into working as a game, leading towards a coalition, which has stagnated and accepted its existence since anything they do they can hide behind, "The Tsol'teth is a big threat and we plan to stop it!" So far though, Hashan has been the only city to grab the opportunity with both hands, run against the grain and really challenge this event. Mhaldor did to a lesser extent, but it was more to the point of "It's just how the City is", and less to do with the event itself.
    Just want to touch on this a bit. As is the same for a number of events, there have been players trying to figure shit out or contact denizens but are finding no answers because denizens aren't replying. Take for example @Zenii who was trying to help the Aalen Tsol'aa, I don't know how often or what methods she used to try and get in contact, but apparently nobody took notice and then at the meeting the king said something to the effect of his village not being offered any help. Sometimes playtimes just don't mesh and it winds up looking like players kicking dirt around or waiting on admin to solve it for them when in actual fact they've been waiting on admin to reply. 

    I know this is really meta but I'm wondering if in future events, admins can set up a 'golden time' flag in which players know there are people on the other end. It doesn't even have to be a fixed time schedule, just something players can configure to be alerted. Like, if you're ready to spare 15 minutes to take enquiries on a denizen you just flag golden time as active. 
    The playtimes is definitely an issue, I am not saying no one has been trying to do other things or explore options, some in Mhaldor are also doing the same too, so it absolutely is not a factional complaint, if it came across that way it was never my intention.

    The coat-tails comment was that Hashan showed that there is large-scale options available to players, at least by the admin here. I can almost guarantee each city has people putting in heavy effort to sway this different ways for their faction, and that is 100% what I love seeing from this event, but the factions aren’t coming to barbs as often as I thought it would.

    (do note: whomever said at the meeting that, “Eleusis doesn’t care if the citydweller cities are destroyed by the Tsol’teth is a good indicator of what I mean: begrudging “I suppose we’ll not rip your guts out when engaged with the Black Wave, but otherwise remember where we stand, you wretches”. Do note that I still think the event is awesome, the Tsol’teth are awesome enemies and it’s been an explosion of PvP, but it’s also still had some very “uhhhh ok?” moments that have pulled me out of this still being a factional conflict world.


    (Mhaldor's Next Top Model): Taryius says, "Oops, thats not a foray. Thats two novices going at it in the wilderness."
  • VeldrinVeldrin DenmarkMember Posts: 433 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Skye said:
    Minifie said:
    IMO a lot of players for this event have been riding the coattails of just hoping either admin or someone else will carry the story to the point, and just expecting things would resolve with minimal effort. At the start there was some awesome FFA for fragments, then it pushed into working as a game, leading towards a coalition, which has stagnated and accepted its existence since anything they do they can hide behind, "The Tsol'teth is a big threat and we plan to stop it!" So far though, Hashan has been the only city to grab the opportunity with both hands, run against the grain and really challenge this event. Mhaldor did to a lesser extent, but it was more to the point of "It's just how the City is", and less to do with the event itself.
    Just want to touch on this a bit. As is the same for a number of events, there have been players trying to figure shit out or contact denizens but are finding no answers because denizens aren't replying. Take for example @Zenii who was trying to help the Aalen Tsol'aa, I don't know how often or what methods she used to try and get in contact, but apparently nobody took notice and then at the meeting the king said something to the effect of his village not being offered any help. Sometimes playtimes just don't mesh and it winds up looking like players kicking dirt around or waiting on admin to solve it for them when in actual fact they've been waiting on admin to reply. 

    I know this is really meta but I'm wondering if in future events, admins can set up a 'golden time' flag in which players know there are people on the other end. It doesn't even have to be a fixed time schedule, just something players can configure to be alerted. Like, if you're ready to spare 15 minutes to take enquiries on a denizen you just flag golden time as active. 
    We tried the first 3 or 4 days of the event to get any response from Jaru or New Hope and received nada. So we resorted to just try and keep the areas where the denizens are clear if at all possible. We also tried poking around in Raia'howeveryouspellit, with Penwize triggered whatever 5th gateway. So it's not like we're not trying, we are just spending a lot of time trying to deal with the tide which spreads a tad too fast compared to how many are actually trying to clear it
    image
    AdrikZbaco
  • AsmodronAsmodron Member Posts: 3,081 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I have to agree.

    Having played the denizen-tell roulette game, you have to accept what outcome you get and try at different times. If you're talking to a mob repeatedly and it doesnt respond...assume that what you're trying to bring up isnt of much importance to the event or the admins and they cant give time to it.

    I've gone for dry spells with mob interactions for weeks, but when I try to speak to the right mob about a topic of importance, I near instantly get a reply.

    It's all about admin free time, admin around, and the story itself. Dont be afraid to send an email or request if it is big.
    LennCailinSiduri
  • JiraishinJiraishin skulkingMember Posts: 2,132 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited April 30
    @Minifie  It's all about admin free time, admin around, and the story itself. Dont be afraid to send an email or request if it is big.

    I am an observant Jew and am not online from sundown Friday night till about an hour after sundown Saturday night, other than Jewish holidays (like the one that forced me to log off Thursday evening during the Cyrene event last week)
     
     :'( 

    Hail Suffering

    True Suffering is missing the Bal'met honours line... and continuing to suffer

    -cries quietly-


    ________________________
    The soul of Ashmond says, "Always with the sniping."
    Boosteya
  • PyoriPyori Member Posts: 1,932 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited April 30
    Skye said:
    Money's on Eleusis, personally >_>
    I'm gonna go with Eleusis, as well. In terms of where the game's at, story-wise, they'd be the least resistant of the remaining 4 (disregarding the Coalition business). Either that or they'll be stopped before they're able to 'take over' another city.

  • VinzentVinzent Member Posts: 209 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I sincerely doubt the Tsol'teth are interested in taking the easiest route possible.
  • JiraishinJiraishin skulkingMember Posts: 2,132 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I better make Jir hard to get then

    brb designing engagement ring
    ________________________
    The soul of Ashmond says, "Always with the sniping."
    CailinBoosteya
  • SkyeSkye The Duchess BellatereMember, Seafaring Liason Posts: 3,081 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    But if there was any other city you wanted to try and put a clamp on 'unsanctioned procreation'... 


    :trollface:


    TrillianaAdrik
  • JiraishinJiraishin skulkingMember Posts: 2,132 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited April 30
    If Jir could impose such a law on Targ he would be so grateful you have no idea. People responsible for this: YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE.

    It being decreed upon Cyrene definitely answers certain prayers though. 
    ________________________
    The soul of Ashmond says, "Always with the sniping."
  • PyoriPyori Member Posts: 1,932 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Vinzent said:
    I sincerely doubt the Tsol'teth are interested in taking the easiest route possible.
    I mean they went for Cyrene, and then Hashan...

  • SkyeSkye The Duchess BellatereMember, Seafaring Liason Posts: 3,081 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Pyori said:
    Vinzent said:
    I sincerely doubt the Tsol'teth are interested in taking the easiest route possible.
    I mean they went for Cyrene, and then Hashan...
    'unsanctioned procreation'


    Jiraishin
  • PyoriPyori Member Posts: 1,932 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Skye said:
    Pyori said:
    Vinzent said:
    I sincerely doubt the Tsol'teth are interested in taking the easiest route possible.
    I mean they went for Cyrene, and then Hashan...
    'unsanctioned procreation'
    Right, so logically the next step is Eleusis!

    Boosteya
  • JiraishinJiraishin skulkingMember Posts: 2,132 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Pyori said:
    Skye said:
    Pyori said:
    Vinzent said:
    I sincerely doubt the Tsol'teth are interested in taking the easiest route possible.
    I mean they went for Cyrene, and then Hashan...
    'unsanctioned procreation'
    Right, so logically the next step is Eleusis!
    goddamn treehuggers

    and I use 'huggers' loosely.
    ________________________
    The soul of Ashmond says, "Always with the sniping."
  • PyoriPyori Member Posts: 1,932 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Jiraishin said:
    Pyori said:
    Skye said:
    Pyori said:
    Vinzent said:
    I sincerely doubt the Tsol'teth are interested in taking the easiest route possible.
    I mean they went for Cyrene, and then Hashan...
    'unsanctioned procreation'
    Right, so logically the next step is Eleusis!
    goddamn treehuggers

    and I use 'huggers' loosely.
    It's okay. They use trees pretty loosely.

    Boosteya
  • JinosJinos Member Posts: 144 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    It's all perspective really.

    Playing a Cyrenian I haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary for the other cities. There's some effective teamwork, but no one is being chummy that shouldn't. Some people tolerate each other better, but outside of the times people need to work together each city focuses on pushing their own narrative.

    Targossas never lingers in a party with Ashtan more than they have to, and split the moment they can.

    The ones most people seem to be amiable towards IC are Cyrenians. Which isn't surprising after the siege, and all the help the citizens are fielding for whoever needs it.  :)
    "Alas. Alas for Hamlin. The Mayor sent east, west, north, and south. To offer the Piper by word of mouth. Wherever it was men's lot to find him, silver and gold to his heart's content. If only he'd return the way he went."
    JiraishinPrythe
  • AsmodronAsmodron Member Posts: 3,081 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Pyori said:
    Vinzent said:
    I sincerely doubt the Tsol'teth are interested in taking the easiest route possible.
    I mean they went for Cyrene, and then Hashan...
    From a lore perspective, Cyrene was the most difficult city to siege in sapience.
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