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Stockings 2018!

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  • DochithaDochitha Member Posts: 1,406 @ - Epic Achaean
    Kriex said:
    Second batch of 5 gave me 17 candycanes, brooch of tempest, and another Mayan crown.  450+ credits at arties redeem value, candycanes for 5 unbound, and crowns for 35 each.
    You know I am buying candycanes at 6 bound. Hit me up . Help me plz
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,899 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Dochitha said:
    Antonius said:
    "Not bad"? Valuing caches at 30 credits (as the admins implicitly have), you spent 4,020 credits to get an item the administration valued at 1,400 credits. I'm not sure how much of that you'll make back from trade-ins on completed items.
    There are people opening 85 caches and didn't get a single pennon . Which is why I think mine isn't bad .I was worried I couldn't complete the pennon... It was a whew at that last mile there... That said, I agree the odds are badly skewed, frankly, honestly. But this happens to all sets, sadly.
    Looks like my initial reaction about the trade-in value was a bit off. You might end up paying less than 1400 for the pennon after completing + trading in, then redeeming individual remaining pieces, though it's difficult to say because you're apparently paying 36 credits per cache.
    Dochitha
  • DochithaDochitha Member Posts: 1,406 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited December 2018
    Antonius said:
    Dochitha said:
    Antonius said:
    "Not bad"? Valuing caches at 30 credits (as the admins implicitly have), you spent 4,020 credits to get an item the administration valued at 1,400 credits. I'm not sure how much of that you'll make back from trade-ins on completed items.
    There are people opening 85 caches and didn't get a single pennon . Which is why I think mine isn't bad .I was worried I couldn't complete the pennon... It was a whew at that last mile there... That said, I agree the odds are badly skewed, frankly, honestly. But this happens to all sets, sadly.
    Looks like my initial reaction about the trade-in value was a bit off. You might end up paying less than 1400 for the pennon after completing + trading in, then redeeming individual remaining pieces, though it's difficult to say because you're apparently paying 36 credits per cache.
    Yah, that's 3% chance of getting a single pennon piece. Assuming a cache is worth 30cr and you need to go through 33 caches to get a single pennon piece, each pennon piece is worth 1K cr, a full set if worth 4K credits, realistically, not the 1400cr admin posted. I think they used a smaller number for 2 reasons, one being allowing the lucky ones to trade the piece off and get huge profits, another is that the renegade completion bonus item is gonna be good and it's cost is definitely factored into the roll.
  • RiellRiell Member Posts: 209 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

    Dochitha said:
    Antonius said:
    Dochitha said:
    Antonius said:
    "Not bad"? Valuing caches at 30 credits (as the admins implicitly have), you spent 4,020 credits to get an item the administration valued at 1,400 credits. I'm not sure how much of that you'll make back from trade-ins on completed items.
    There are people opening 85 caches and didn't get a single pennon . Which is why I think mine isn't bad .I was worried I couldn't complete the pennon... It was a whew at that last mile there... That said, I agree the odds are badly skewed, frankly, honestly. But this happens to all sets, sadly.
    Looks like my initial reaction about the trade-in value was a bit off. You might end up paying less than 1400 for the pennon after completing + trading in, then redeeming individual remaining pieces, though it's difficult to say because you're apparently paying 36 credits per cache.
    Yah, that's 3% chance of getting a single pennon piece. Assuming a cache is worth 30cr and you need to go through 33 caches to get a single pennon piece, each pennon piece is worth 1K cr, a full set if worth 4K credits, realistically, not the 1400cr admin posted. I think they used a smaller number for 2 reasons, one being allowing the lucky ones to trade the piece off and get huge profits, another is that the renegade completion bonus item is gonna be good and it's cost is definitely factored into the roll.
    This isn't exactly true, though. You're not spending 4K credits on just the pennon pieces. You're also receiving a ton of other pieces to redeem/trade/complete, so at the end of the day, the cost is gonna be way lower than that.
    Dairon
  • PyoriPyori Member Posts: 1,724 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited December 2018
    Pennon isn't gonna sell for anywhere close to 4k. It isn't better than the mayan figurine, and that sells for much less than 4k. Rarity or not, people are gonna pay for what they think the use-effect of the item is.
    Realistically pennon is worth whatever people wanna pay for it. You'd be lucky to get more than 2k I would wager.

    Ozmatiah
  • CooperCooper Member Posts: 5,203 @@ - Legendary Achaean
  • YgiaYgia Member Posts: 161 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    God I want those pixie boots. @[email protected]
  • CooperCooper Member Posts: 5,203 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I have two. You can't have any.

  • YgiaYgia Member Posts: 161 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Rude as heck. :C 
    Cooper
  • GarnerGarner Member Posts: 51 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    You open a logosmas stocking and find a group of 5 candycanes and a group of 16 bloodroot leaves inside!
    You open a logosmas stocking and find a group of 3 candycanes and a group of 9 steel bars inside!
    You open a logosmas stocking and find a group of 5 candycanes, a sharpened Logosmas tree trunk, and a group of 6 steel bars inside!
    You open a logosmas stocking and find a group of 3 candycanes, a tundral drinking horn, and a group of 25 lobelia seeds inside!
    You open a logosmas stocking and find a group of 4 candycanes and a group of 7 coal pieces inside!
    You open a logosmas stocking and find a group of 3 candycanes and a group of 20 valerian leaves inside!
    You open a logosmas stocking and find a group of 3 candycanes, a Mayan Crown, and 2025 gold sovereigns inside!
    You open a logosmas stocking and find a group of 3 candycanes, a Mayan Crown, a garland wreathed vial, and a group of 31 goldenseal roots inside!
    You open a logosmas stocking and find a group of 3 candycanes and a group of 9 steel bars inside!
    You open a logosmas stocking and find a group of 3 candycanes, a garland wreathed vial, and a group of 26 goldenseal roots inside!

    35 canes (210 at 6 per, 175 at 5), 70 credits in Crowns, 126 in tradeins from the vial and pike, and another 100 from the horn which I may keep, haven't decided.

    If I can get Dochitha to trade 6 bounds credits each for those canes, that'd be 506 total value from these 10, 406 if I keep the horn. Now that's what I'm talking about.
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,899 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Garner said:
    You open a logosmas stocking and find a group of 5 candycanes and a group of 16 bloodroot leaves inside!
    You open a logosmas stocking and find a group of 3 candycanes and a group of 9 steel bars inside!
    You open a logosmas stocking and find a group of 5 candycanes, a sharpened Logosmas tree trunk, and a group of 6 steel bars inside!
    You open a logosmas stocking and find a group of 3 candycanes, a tundral drinking horn, and a group of 25 lobelia seeds inside!
    You open a logosmas stocking and find a group of 4 candycanes and a group of 7 coal pieces inside!
    You open a logosmas stocking and find a group of 3 candycanes and a group of 20 valerian leaves inside!
    You open a logosmas stocking and find a group of 3 candycanes, a Mayan Crown, and 2025 gold sovereigns inside!
    You open a logosmas stocking and find a group of 3 candycanes, a Mayan Crown, a garland wreathed vial, and a group of 31 goldenseal roots inside!
    You open a logosmas stocking and find a group of 3 candycanes and a group of 9 steel bars inside!
    You open a logosmas stocking and find a group of 3 candycanes, a garland wreathed vial, and a group of 26 goldenseal roots inside!

    35 canes (210 at 6 per, 175 at 5), 70 credits in Crowns, 126 in tradeins from the vial and pike, and another 100 from the horn which I may keep, haven't decided.

    If I can get Dochitha to trade 6 bounds credits each for those canes, that'd be 506 total value from these 10, 406 if I keep the horn. Now that's what I'm talking about.
    It's a value of 556 credits if you keep the horn, not 406. The horn costs 150 credits. Deciding to keep it doesn't make it worth 0.
  • VinzentVinzent Member Posts: 163 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    The big prize should be locked to once per person per promotion to make it more accessible. 
    GarnerYgiaSolnirTelinus
  • YgiaYgia Member Posts: 161 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Honestly? I agree with the above. :| 
  • SolnirSolnir Member Posts: 749 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Vinzent said:
    The big prize should be locked to once per person per promotion to make it more accessible. 
    This. It's not worth even bothering to try for most people, because of the ones who just open a ton the second the message goes off, every time.
  • CooperCooper Member Posts: 5,203 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    The two times I've won have taken 16 stockings total, so not a "ton". I am just patient and don't open the stockings until the big prize goes off, which is something everyone can do.

    I wouldn't mind putting a balance on opening stockings when the big prize is available, similar to globes though! You can't see it in my log, but I waited a few seconds between opening each of those stockings as well, so it's not like I just spam opened.

    Utianima
  • ZaryuZaryu Member Posts: 9
    Does the big prize stocking go off around the same time everyday or does it change? planning on buying stockings - but cant decide between 20 regulars and 5 fancy or for around the same price I could get 35 regulars.
  • CooperCooper Member Posts: 5,203 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    It goes off based on how many stockings have been opened. I don't know the number, but it's probably 250 or 500 stockings opened = big prize is triggered.

    Zaryu
  • ZaryuZaryu Member Posts: 9
    Cooper said:
    It goes off based on how many stockings have been opened. I don't know the number, but it's probably 250 or 500 stockings opened = big prize is triggered.

     Thanks for the quick reply.
  • MinifieMinifie Member Posts: 2,308 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Vinzent said:
    The big prize should be locked to once per person per promotion to make it more accessible. 
    I wouldn't be against this, the big prize also gets slowed because if it is based on people opening stockings, the people waiting on the prize aren't opening to trigger it. A nice 500-1000cr bonus once a month from this is nice, and stockings are still worth getting outside of the bonus anyway.


    (Mhaldor's Next Top Model): Taryius says, "Oops, thats not a foray. Thats two novices going at it in the wilderness."
  • SolnirSolnir Member Posts: 749 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited December 2018
    Cooper said:
    The two times I've won have taken 16 stockings total, so not a "ton".

    16 stockings is more than $75. That's a ton to some people (myself included).

    Edit: to add to the actual point, though, it's still fruitless for someone with a gifted stocking or two to wait for the big one in almost every case. I understand you opened ~8 for each big stocking, but for those of us who aren't able to spend very much, if any, on Achaea, the big stocking would be a great bonus. But, I admit I've also developed the pessimist mentality of "why bother, someone'll just spam open their 50+ hanging stockings and get it." 
  • DochithaDochitha Member Posts: 1,406 @ - Epic Achaean
    https://pste.eu/p/ahaR.html

    I bugled, raised the pennon, considered, it says:
    A Tsol'dasi mystic has visited the Halls of Death recently.

    how does the pennon work?
    Utianima
  • CooperCooper Member Posts: 5,203 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Solnir said:
    Cooper said:
    The two times I've won have taken 16 stockings total, so not a "ton".

    16 stockings is more than $75. That's a ton to some people (myself included).

    Edit: to add to the actual point, though, it's still fruitless for someone with a gifted stocking or two to wait for the big one in almost every case. I understand you opened ~8 for each big stocking, but for those of us who aren't able to spend very much, if any, on Achaea, the big stocking would be a great bonus. But, I admit I've also developed the pessimist mentality of "why bother, someone'll just spam open their 50+ hanging stockings and get it." 
    The first time I got it, I opened two stockings.

    The flipside to your argument is why should someone who spent $5 win a prize over someone who spent $200?

  • MinifieMinifie Member Posts: 2,308 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Cooper said:
    Solnir said:
    Cooper said:
    The two times I've won have taken 16 stockings total, so not a "ton".

    16 stockings is more than $75. That's a ton to some people (myself included).

    Edit: to add to the actual point, though, it's still fruitless for someone with a gifted stocking or two to wait for the big one in almost every case. I understand you opened ~8 for each big stocking, but for those of us who aren't able to spend very much, if any, on Achaea, the big stocking would be a great bonus. But, I admit I've also developed the pessimist mentality of "why bother, someone'll just spam open their 50+ hanging stockings and get it." 
    The first time I got it, I opened two stockings.

    The flipside to your argument is why should someone who spent $5 win a prize over someone who spent $200?
    Because you slowly erode the illusion that the guy who can afford only a few globes/stockings etc has a chance to also get a big win, even from their 1 tiny stocking. If all big prize items would only reward potentially bound credits/items and one win per month, with random times set so they could go off at any time, people may be more willing to part with their small amounts of spending money. At the moment, anyone who asks me if they should buy 5 stockings or keep saving, I’ll tell them to wait for the chunky 40% sales and buy big, because unbound credits are incredibly flexible, you can trade them to people for talismans to redeem/tradein to get good returns, buy sought after items like death cape, or just bind them if you feel like. Candy canes make stockings worth while, but honestly unless someone is going to buy 20 and gun for every attempt at the prize, I am going to stick to telling people who ask for advice on buying this stuff to stick fat until the big 40%ers and just save and save (plus it gives you a slush fund you may end up using on a switch instead!)


    (Mhaldor's Next Top Model): Taryius says, "Oops, thats not a foray. Thats two novices going at it in the wilderness."
    Jiraishin
  • DochithaDochitha Member Posts: 1,406 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited December 2018
    I like the idea that big prize strikes randomly. Now what happens is people with a few stockings tend to think they don't stand A chance, hence they open theirs which contributes towards the big prize. Then ppl with lots of stockings just wait for the announce and often win a few times before the month ends. This mechanism totally favors bigger spenders. But maybe everyone can be a little patient and wait on the announce, and it will never come. Or it is intended to reward bigger spenders. I don't know anymore .
  • MinifieMinifie Member Posts: 2,308 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Dochitha said:
    I like the idea that big prize strikes randomly. Now what happens is people with a few stockings tend to think they don't stand A chance, hence they open theirs which contributes towards the big prize. Then ppl with lots of stockings just wait for the announce and often win a few times before the month ends. This mechanism totally favors bigger spenders. But maybe everyone can be a little patient and wait on the announce, and it will never come. Or it is intended to reward bigger spenders. I don't know anymore .
    If everyone waits, it never triggers, so it requires people opening to trigger it at this time, and I wouldn't be surprised if most of the progress towards the big stocking is done by opening the stockings that others hang for them. I was thinking about this, and perhaps instead of part of the next X opened is the prize one, it just silently triggers, awards one player an item to "upgrade" the stocking/giftbag/globe, that the person can either use on their own item or someone elses. It'd be like when the free wheel spin spits out a veil for a random lowbie, but it flags the character's acct to not proc again that month, so rng doesn't suddenly give someone a heap of tokens that month. It'd require a chunk of refining, but it would also allow players to just open their stuff when they get them instead of hoarding, and the item itself can be used on other player's globes etc so it can be sold if the player doesn't want to spend cash for items, could be just a free chunk of credits for them?


    (Mhaldor's Next Top Model): Taryius says, "Oops, thats not a foray. Thats two novices going at it in the wilderness."
  • DochithaDochitha Member Posts: 1,406 @ - Epic Achaean
    I really don't mind the same person winning multiple times. It is the fact that people hoard until announce that's the problem. If people don't hoard, there is no problem letting the bigger spenders win more times, just scaling with their spend.
  • MinifieMinifie Member Posts: 2,308 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited December 2018
    Dochitha said:
    I really don't mind the same person winning multiple times. It is the fact that people hoard until announce that's the problem. If people don't hoard, there is no problem letting the bigger spenders win more times, just scaling with their spend.
    How do you fix hoarding then? I mean, if every player, even those little ones who get 1 stocking as a gift decide to hold out for the prize stocking, and it gets announced as a rarity. If you want to fix hoarding, then you'll have to change how the prize stocking works, and I've been trying to tell anyone who asks/actively promote no one opening stockings etc until  the prize announcement hits, solely for their benefit.

    At this point, what benefit is there to timmy-newbie opening his 5 stockings right away so hoarders can get closer to the prize stocking, compared to him also holding out and taking his chances at opening a nice chunky prize?

    edit:  I love playing this game, and the devs slowly make good changes that I am happy with, but when players who have stuck with it start asking me "how do I get (insert special item) so I don't get caught in enemy cities/can escape like that person/can be harder to kill, and my response is, "pay or grind far out the ass", I'm going to do anything I can to give those people any extra little push that helps them catch up, if that means grinding them to dragon, telling them the best ways to get more bang for their buck if they do spend, or spending my bound credits on earrings, I'll do it, because having people see that wall and go "nah I'll be right" and quitting doesn't help me, nor the game or the community.


    (Mhaldor's Next Top Model): Taryius says, "Oops, thats not a foray. Thats two novices going at it in the wilderness."
  • CooperCooper Member Posts: 5,203 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Three things - 

    1. You're acting as if winning the big prize is the only reason to buy stockings - it isn't. 

    2. Telling people to not buy stockings and to wait for a 40% off sale is incredibly terrible advice. If you're actually doing that, please message everyone you've told that and apologize to them. Even the people with "bad" luck are coming out ahead of a 40% bonus the vast majority of the time.

    3. Bound vs unbound doesn't matter for the small people who need the credits for lessons and artefacts. It really only affects the people who want unbounds to buy promo stuff and resell it. If you want to gift something to someone, you can hang stockings for them. 

    GarnerCamroth
  • GarnerGarner Member Posts: 51 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    My first set was "bad" luck and I came away with 263 credits, which as Cooper pointed out, was a 110% bonus, far more than 40%. The canes alone would have resulted in an unbound value of 160, which is just 15 shy of the same amount bought during a 40% sale. If I sold the cache instead of opening it, it would've surpassed this.

    My second set was pretty good, with all things converted to bound credits nets me 506 credits, which is a 400% bonus. Note - I didn't win the big prize, this was all just standard stuff. I may keep the horn, which would be another 50 credits added to the value for a total for a 450% bonus. The canes again would be 175 unbound credits, right at what a 40% sale would get you. The two crowns if sold for unbound credits would send it even higher.

    And these aren't even counting the bonus stockings that open on the 25th and 31st.

    You absolutely should spend money now if you ever intend to. Stockings are by far the best bang for your buck. I'm not even sure their occasional lesson sales get you this much value on average. Yeah, it'd be nice to hit the bonus stocking, but even if you don't, you're still getting an amazing value. You'd be an fool to wait for a "better deal" - it's not going to come.

    ... That said, limiting the random 'big payouts' like wheel spins and big stockings to one person per promotion isn't the worst idea in the world. If the admin do it, great. If not, it's not that big of a deal.
    DochithaCooper
  • DochithaDochitha Member Posts: 1,406 @ - Epic Achaean
    Garner said:

    You absolutely should spend money now if you ever intend to. Stockings are by far the best bang for your buck. I'm not even sure their occasional lesson sales get you this much value on average. Yeah, it'd be nice to hit the bonus stocking, but even if you don't, you're still getting an amazing value. You'd be an fool to wait for a "better deal" - it's not going to come.
    You got it! It's great this round!
    Kriex
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