Shop of Wonders ideas.

Aerek

I'm skeptical. One of those wouldn't be an issue, individually, but en masse, they would remove the intended logistical balances for their respective skills. One blacksmith's chest? Sure, no problem, but remember that people were buying 5 and 10 Trader's Satchels at a time when they existed. Someone pulling 50 steel out of thin air every 5 hours? That's 240 a day, 1680 a week. That removes the only real "balance" on Forging: the cost.

And that's just with 10, because 10 is the most Trader's Satchels I know any one player to own. With something as important and valued as a steel generator, it would be naive to believe that people would show any restraint with them. And considering that Crowns are technically "free" with credit purchases during sales, or can be farmed via ship trades, that's a potentially game-breaking artefact for a ridiculously good bargain. No, I think Trader's Satchels were too good to be true, and will/should never return in any form.

Xith

Agree, but maybe something that gives 2-3 steel per achaean month. Same with the ice thing.

Jules

Is steel really "keeping forging balanced"?  I don't disagree that it has at least some impact, but I thought probability (and thus, time) was the most important factor, tbh - that's why our expectations for forged items keep going up, the willingness of a small, but significant number of forgers to tink tink away until they get the weapons we've come to expect.  

Silas

Forging also pays for itself if you have the time to commit to it. You only need to sell a couple of exceptional weapons to pay for those 10 chests. With enchanting, there's much more of a static market so it at least contributes less to devaluation of commodities, but it's still probably better to leave it as is.

Kyrra

For what it's worth, assuming that you can get most of the villages around restock, it takes a little less than a week to get 10k steel and it costs just under a million sovereigns.

This is based off the research of.. filling up my rift twice out of boredom.

Trey

Aerek said:

I'm skeptical. One of those wouldn't be an issue, individually, but en masse, they would remove the intended logistical balances for their respective skills. One blacksmith's chest? Sure, no problem, but remember that people were buying 5 and 10 Trader's Satchels at a time when they existed. Someone pulling 50 steel out of thin air every 5 hours? That's 240 a day, 1680 a week. That removes the only real "balance" on Forging: the cost.

And that's just with 10, because 10 is the most Trader's Satchels I know any one player to own. With something as important and valued as a steel generator, it would be naive to believe that people would show any restraint with them. And considering that Crowns are technically "free" with credit purchases during sales, or can be farmed via ship trades, that's a potentially game-breaking artefact for a ridiculously good bargain. No, I think Trader's Satchels were too good to be true, and will/should never return in any form.

Your figures also assume that a person is logging in every five hours like clockwork to empty them, assuming multiple chests are bought the steel necessary to recoup your investment will take just as long as one. I disagree with the points you make regarding logistical balance, but then I'm likely somewhat biased. I fail to see this as anything but a convenience tool for those with the scratch to buy one (or several), since as Kyrra pointed out the steel is out there and available, you just need to go grab it.

Aerek

Sorry Trey, but that's some pretty biased logic.

Even if I lower my figures and assume someone with 10 of these chests only logs in twice a day (Once in the morning, once in the evening, isn't exactly "like clockwork") That's still 100 steel per day, 700 a week, 3000 a month. That's 1100 rapiers every month (After smelting and re-using the steel) that you wouldn't pay a single dime for. That might not satisfy your particular appetite for forging, but that doesn't make that less ridiculous or game-breaking. I would drop the money on 5 of these things, because that would completely cover my forging needs, forever.

You don't just need to "go grab" the steel out there, you actually have to pay for it, which is precisely the point. Forging requires large investments of money for the chance that you'll make a great weapon or suit of armour to sell for exponentially more than what you invested, or the chance that you'll get nothing and take a loss. If you don't actually have to pay for those materials, then you always make a profit, and never take a loss. Hell, you don't even have to forge, you could just sell all that steel to your city comm shop for half price. That's still 300,000 or more gold every month for doing jack all. That's not a "convenience tool," that's an "income generator," and as the Admin just nerfed the deep sea bait bucket because you could just sell the fish it generated to Craden/Telward, I don't think they'll be keen on implementing a new personal coinage mint.

A Painter's Palatte costs 450 credits, six times your suggested price for these, and Senamath says it would take more than 5 years to pay for itself, logging in every 6 hours. (10 years, if we log in twice a day) You, yourself, estimated that these things would pay for themselves in 4500 steel, which they would each produce in just over 1 year, only logging in twice a day. If you bought 10, they would pay for one of them every 45 days. That's not even counting the fact that you can sell the products of that steel for hundreds of credits more. With a few impressive forging orders or a couple fantastic weapon/armor sales, you could return your investment in as little as 6-10 months. That's the single greatest return time on any artefact, ever.

Recalling this quote from another thread:

Trey said:

Considering that even factoring in credit purchases I'm still ahead about 600 dollars, not counting my toys, maybe the words 'barely profitable' aren't the most appropriate

You sound like a hedge fund manager trying to convince us that stock market investments and capital gains should be tax exempt, because it would be nice for everyone, and would only be a "convenience" to you.

Sena

I think a steel generator would be fine, if it could be limited to one per person.

Trey

Sena said:

I think a steel generator would be fine, if it could be limited to one per person.

I'd go for this. I agree with @Aerek's point insofar that there could be a massive problem with someone buying ten of them, but one would hardly be as game-breaking as he'd like to believe. 100 steel every four days or so. I'd even agree that my original price on them was low. I only picked it because it was double what the traders satchels were. 4-5 crowns might be more in-line with an item like that.

Also, @Aerek, thank you for the eventual laugh. You come off as more condescending than even -I- tend to be, and my kneejerk reaction was to summon the twisted verbal styles of @Xenomorph, who would have likely requested that if you were going to insist on being a cocksucker hellbent on becoming patient zero for the strain of Ultra-AIDS passed around the *shallamese crackbaby Refugee camp, you could at least have the common decency to show up in a dress with some slink and get him in the mood.

Horatio

But at least Xeno's twisted verbal styles are laugh-inducing

Tvistor

Trey, I love you dude, but Xeno just does it... differently.

Plus Aerek's like, my main man.

Aerek

I'll be wearing a dress with some slink for @Tvistor later.

Melodie

I get to pick it out, right?

I'll find my make-up kit, too.

Kenway

Aerek

Referencing Firefly proves that @Kenway is a gentleman and a scholar.

Jules

Still trying to think of things I'd actually buy, that are either utilitarian in ways that are "acceptable" or just fun.  

Universal Membrane thingy.  Drop it in a room and hear random says as if in the Membrane.  Great for those family drinking, jousting and trample get-togethers!  As well, the name of the adventurer who said them will be given.  I debated on whether or not to include the name, but we are talking about says, so there should be absolutely no expectation of full privacy.  I'm not trying to turn this into some sort of super spy tool, but without names, the Membrane is fun to go to once, but eh... it's mostly kind of boring without at least *some* context for the says.  And you still wouldn't be able to actually "tune into" any particular person or conversation, so I hope that in the end it would be accepted as is, but I'm sure at least some folks won't like the idea.  7-8 Mayan Crowns based on current average crown price of 35 credits and assuming it went in as suggested - not cheap, because it's pretty darned cool/fun, but I'd consider higher than that to be price gouging.  

EDIT:  to be clear drop it in the room would be temporary, not trying to create permanent membranes all over Sapience here!  Item would be resetting like most other arties.  

Delphinus

I think the remoteness of the Universal Membrane (and previously, its isolation) is one of the trade-offs for its potentially huge power. You don't need names to make something into a spy tool, and we don't need to further encourage people talking on PT for sensitive things.

Sena

I could see a "portable membrane" as an auction item (so it could be limited to one or two ever), but not a Shop of Wonders item.

Jules

Well, I'm not as excited about this as I am about the Achaean version of people-watching at the airport (see above) but...

Firework thingy:  produces a repeatable "firework effect" with customisable messages (have none of them start on new line to prevent people trying to mess with others)?  Takes balance.  Can't decide if area-wide would upset too many cranky old Achaeans sitting on their stoops... (maybe even me).  But if it *were* area-wide would be awesome for city celebrations!  May need an additional limit of some sort to prevent the "firework griefers" (while still allowing for a full display).  Undecided on price, but inb4 ridiculous suggestions on price.  

If there were an area-wide one maybe make it purchasable by organizations only/not necessarily a SoW item.  

Jules

A spitting camel, because crater, and because Iocun's got webbed.  But in all seriousness, if they do another collared LS, a nasty camel would be great.  It should spit on everyone but the owner.  Actually, it should spit on the owner too.  I actually might be tempted to take one more babystep towards having a Madelyne sized stable of critters if this were well executed.  Oh hell, I'd pay *six* MC instead of the usual 5 if it spit.   

Rispok

Jules said:

A spitting camel, because crater, and because Iocun's got webbed.  But in all seriousness, if they do another collared LS, a nasty camel would be great.  It should spit on everyone but the owner.  Actually, it should spit on the owner too.  I actually might be tempted to take one more babystep towards having a Madelyne sized stable of critters if this were well executed.  Oh hell, I'd pay *six* MC instead of the usual 5 if it spit.   

SoW mounts are flying legendsteeds. If you want a pet, gotta shell out 500cr

Katzchen

Jules said:

A spitting camel, because crater, and because Iocun's got webbed.  But in all seriousness, if they do another collared LS, a nasty camel would be great.  It should spit on everyone but the owner.  Actually, it should spit on the owner too.  I actually might be tempted to take one more babystep towards having a Madelyne sized stable of critters if this were well executed.  Oh hell, I'd pay *six* MC instead of the usual 5 if it spit.   

And three months later when they have sold a total of six camels - one to you, and five to Iocun, they will be going 'why didn't we bring out a pink wyvern or something?'

Iocun

I'm strictly a one-camel-guy.

Katzchen

Iocun said:

I'm strictly a one-camel-guy.

Then they have even less reason to bring out a SoW camel.

Seftin

One camel, two humps.,

Jules

Rispok said:

Jules said:

A spitting camel, because crater, and because Iocun's got webbed.  But in all seriousness, if they do another collared LS, a nasty camel would be great.  It should spit on everyone but the owner.  Actually, it should spit on the owner too.  I actually might be tempted to take one more babystep towards having a Madelyne sized stable of critters if this were well executed.  Oh hell, I'd pay *six* MC instead of the usual 5 if it spit.   

SoW mounts are flying legendsteeds. If you want a pet, gotta shell out 500cr

I really wasn't trying to make some kind of special snowflake pet  I suggested years ago that *all* camels should spit, just because that's what camels do, being camels (they're nearly all quite nasty).  In a more general sense, one of my small pet peeves about mounts has always been that even the non-equine ones have equine reactions.  Anyway... hope some more suggestions that are interesting/useful enough to buy come through.  

Jonathin

@Rispok: Small correction: Not all the SoW mounts were flyers. The ruby hydra doesn't fly whereas the ebony pegasus does. I think the trade-off was for trample or something, I can't really remember at this point.

Xer

I presume the ruby hydra would be like the storm bull in that it has a better chance of breaking limbs, whereas the ebony pegasus had a slightly lower chance for limbs, but could in addition, fly.

Jules

Also worth noting, the ebony pegasus, at the very least, has a unique emote/reaction which has been featured repeatedly in quotes threads, and I do think some other mounts have similarly unique emotes/reactions.  So while I guess no one else is interested in a nasty camel, unique (in the sense that they are unique to that type of mount) emotes/reactions do have precedent.  

Ognog

I'd like to see a shop of wonders artifact like a "Mask of Somnolence". It would allow those of level 80 (Logosian) or higher to enjoy an extended period of sleep (and the dreams that come with it) as though under level 80 and tired.

Please let me know if there is an existing way to do this ???