Refugees of Shallam, how are you coping?

Synbios

Cinya said:

Seriously, guys? Hashan has it's fair share of idiots like every city, but it's really not a fraction as bad as people like to say. These constant, drawn-out "Hashan doesn't exist" jokes are seriously getting old. I was really surprised how much I liked it once I found a good RP circle, and I'm pretty sure the same can be said of any city. 

Personally, I like it a lot more than I ever liked Shallam. 

Blame it on Tvistor. He started it. </tattletale kid> 

Katzchen

Cinya said:

Seriously, guys? Hashan has it's fair share of idiots like every city, but it's really not a fraction as bad as people like to say. These constant, drawn-out "Hashan doesn't exist" jokes are seriously getting old. I was really surprised how much I liked it once I found a good RP circle, and I'm pretty sure the same can be said of any city. 

Personally, I like it a lot more than I ever liked Shallam. 

Agreed. I was Ashtani for many years on alts, and Hashan was definitely no worse. Mhaldor suits me far better now, and I love it here, but Hashan wasn't -that- bad. The reason I left was to join Mhaldor, not because I was unhappy with Hashan. Felt pretty guilty letting down @Vayne, and the Merchants really.

Draekar

Can you take discussions about the irrelevance of Hashan to its own topic?

Tarkanian

Eld said:

Delphinus said:

Eld said:

Tanaar said:

I'm searching for something like "cleansing the ____ alone would take fifty year," but I can't think of anything in Hashan notable enough.

House of Delights, perhaps.

What I don't get is people who don't primarily play Shallamese asking to be kept up to speed on refugee activities.

It's an interesting story. Those are largely the reason people play.

I think my comment was primarily in response to Tarkanian's above, asking for updates. I certainly understand why one would be curious about what's going on, just not why you would expect to be kept up on the internal developments, rather than waiting for the in-game manifestations that your character would see. I understand being curious about what's going on, I just wouldn't ask people to fill me in, ooc, on the deliberations behind the actions my character will eventually see in game.

I would also rather see the story develop IG, but as I have said, December (and the foreseeable future) was pretty hectic for me, and the only time I logged in was to do the waterskin quest. This was a short 5-minute break between coming home from work, taking care of the baby, cleaning poop, feeding the baby, washing poop-stained cloth diapers, putting baby to sleep, cleaning poop while baby sleeps, etc. By the time I can play to bash and socialize IG, I'm already on "Ah, screw it" mode, and just go to sleep.

Tvistor

The correct response is to actually take potshots at Mhaldor's horrible population, then we take potshots at Cyrene for the pastry fixation, Cyrene takes potshots at Shallam for not having a city then Ashtan takes potshots at all of us for being able to murder us.

Aerek

Ashtan doesn't take potshots. They go straight for the headshot.

Tarkanian

Tvistor said:

The correct response is to actually take potshots at Mhaldor's horrible population, then we take potshots at Cyrene for the pastry fixation, Cyrene takes potshots at Shallam for not having a city then Ashtan takes potshots at all of us for being able to murder us.

And you still leave Hashan out of all this potshotting.  [-(

Tvistor

I already took a potshot though! I'm so sorry, I didn't mean it.

Tahquil

Cinya said:

Seriously, guys? Hashan has it's fair share of idiots like every city, but it's really not a fraction as bad as people like to say. These constant, drawn-out "Hashan doesn't exist" jokes are seriously getting old. I was really surprised how much I liked it once I found a good RP circle, and I'm pretty sure the same can be said of any city. 

Personally, I like it a lot more than I ever liked Shallam. 

I'm sorry, I can't hear you from that gaping hole in the ether you call a city.

(Omg, sorry Cinya baby but I had to.)

Asmodron

Cinya said:

Seriously, guys? Hashan has it's fair share of idiots like every city, but it's really not a fraction as bad as people like to say. These constant, drawn-out "Hashan doesn't exist" jokes are seriously getting old. I was really surprised how much I liked it once I found a good RP circle, and I'm pretty sure the same can be said of any city. 

Personally, I like it a lot more than I ever liked Shallam. 

Mostly the  reason why Hashan has so many jokes directed to it is because in a world like Achaea where it is a constant power-struggle between the major forces (GOOD(rip)/EVIL/CHAOS),  Hashan sits on a sidelines eating cottoncandy and watching TV. So since it is not involved in these power struggles, it is usually seen by the "bigger kids" as nothing but wasted space. In general consider the cities as strict military schools and Hashan as a retirement home.

Chryenth

Except Hashan is the province of Darkness, which lies directly opposed to Light.

Silas

Hashan is seen as a waste of space because, except for a too-brief period under Saltaern, and an apparent renaissance under Vayne, its leadership has been dire.

See: Bleak, Deladan, etc.

Synbios

Chryenth said:

Except Hashan is the province of Darkness, which lies directly opposed to Light.

Asmodron probably didn't get the memo. 

Asmodron

Chryenth said:

Except Hashan is the province of Darkness, which lies directly opposed to Light.

As the phrase goes "Words are wind". Though Hashan can claim this (though several or more citizens would oppose it for another theme) as its tenets, it does not give the representation nor its actions reflect upon it. For example, a country could always state it is a free independant country when in fact it is ruled by a tyrant leader.

Hashan has for a long time and by the looks of it always will be a state where players can join to live and easy a relaxed life compared to Ashtan/Mhaldor/etc. , which is not generally a bad thing.

Silas

Yeah, I'd hate to face the hardships of Ashtan. Poor them.

Sabiru

Ehh, states that people can join to live an easy relaxed life don't work in this setting (or maybe they work too well - in any case,) Hashan and Cyrene were mistakes and the game genuinely would be better without them.

Maybe next christmas

Iocun

As Silas just pointed out, that's a bit a weird statement, coming from someone whose character joined Ashtan, which arguably is just as suited for an easy relaxed life as Hashan and Cyrene.

Achilles

Most of Ashtan has it pretty easy, they aren't forced to defend, defile, sanctify.  As long as they have their buffer Tanris they get to live in blissful ignorance.  Of course if they ever lose their military edge then everything else will quickly fall apart.  Winning begets winning, losing begets finger pointing.

Tvistor

Except Ashtan is pretty much synonymous (in my mind, at least) with the Occultists, who aren't really relaxed to my knowledge.

I'm fairly sure if Darkness had Tanris and company, Hashan could just as easily be the equivalent of Ashtan -- a bunch of people chillaxing and a smaller, more dedicated group making the city relevant.

Also we've derailed so hard. So, refugees, right?

Iocun

Even most occultist house members rarely have to bother with being PK'd. Sure, their lives may be non-relaxed in other aspects than PK, but that applies to quite a few people in Cyrene and Hashan too.

Tvistor

To be fair I'd be cool with Ashtan exploding too. It would balance the game.

And Cyrene too, just so more people are encouraged to get involved in conflict.

Hashan for the same reason.

And Eleusis exploding would no doubt serve to remind everyone that global warming will eventually do us in if we don't take steps to prevent it.

(let's just leave Mhaldor intact)

Chryenth

I resent the insinuation that the 'buffer' is the only part of Ashtan that actually works for the city. There are some of us that do a lot of work - me excluded - that don't get any forum-recognition because LolTanraid.

/grumble

Tvistor

You know, I thought you were Cyrenian this whole time for some reason.

Iocun

Just because his name starts like Chryseas, I bet!

Silas

Ashtan's dominance frees up the people (probably like 90% of its population) who don't participate in the domination to do whatever it is they do. The same happened, very briefly, in Shallam when the Qashar was at its peak. If you take away that buffer, as happened to Shallam, those people's lives become suddenly much more arduous, and given that they're not part of the PK crowd they tend to fall off the radar to a large degree.

Mhaldor is a really good example of this, honestly. Take away Ashtan, and - no offence to the people there who clearly work hard with what they've got - look what it became.

Tanaar

Seriously, guys? Hashan has it's fair share of idiots like every city, but it's really not a fraction as bad as people like to say. These constant, drawn-out "Hashan doesn't exist" jokes are seriously getting old. I was really surprised how much I liked it once I found a good RP circle, and I'm pretty sure the same can be said of any city. 

Personally, I like it a lot more than I ever liked Shallam. 

The problem with Hashan, @Cinya, is that it's extremely insular. Maybe it does have a rich RP environment going on inside its walls, maybe its Houses are the bee's knees. I don't know. No one does. That' the problem. Hashan interacts with Hashan, and that's about it. In lieu of experience actually engaging with Hashan, the rest of the game-world assumes nothing's going on. If you want the 'Hashan doesn't exist' jokes to stop, engage with the rest of us more frequently than once in a blue moon.

Cyrene has a similar problem, but to a far lesser extent, maintaining a degree of enmity with Team Evil and Team Chaos and alliance with Team Good. I'd say friendship with Team Green, but I don't know how that's soured since Alchemists.

Draekar's right though. I'd be happy to engage in how Hashan can become a real member of the community of cities (phrased it better?) in another thread if you want to start one.

Lodi

@Silas I wish Mhaldor had never become allies with Ashtan. Mhaldor was founded in direct opposition to Ashtan, it should have stayed that way. You're totally right, as soon as the alliance was destroyed, Mhaldor crumbled. But this didn't happen just because a 'buffer' went. There were a whole load of complex reasons why the proverbial hit the fan.

Chryenth

Iocun said:

Just because his name starts like Chryseas, I bet!

So many mistells, it's not even funny.

Got even worse when I joined Scarlatti's Commune. >:(

Cinya

Tanaar said:

Seriously, guys? Hashan has it's fair share of idiots like every city, but it's really not a fraction as bad as people like to say. These constant, drawn-out "Hashan doesn't exist" jokes are seriously getting old. I was really surprised how much I liked it once I found a good RP circle, and I'm pretty sure the same can be said of any city. 

Personally, I like it a lot more than I ever liked Shallam. 

The problem with Hashan, @Cinya, is that it's extremely insular. Maybe it does have a rich RP environment going on inside its walls, maybe its Houses are the bee's knees. I don't know. No one does. That' the problem. Hashan interacts with Hashan, and that's about it. In lieu of experience actually engaging with Hashan, the rest of the game-world assumes nothing's going on. If you want the 'Hashan doesn't exist' jokes to stop, engage with the rest of us more frequently than once in a blue moon.

While I can see this to a point, I don't agree that it's comparable to Cyrene. I had a Cyrenian before starting Cinya, and it's dramatically more insular than I perceive Hashan to be - although again, that might just be my RP circle. 

Regardless, I appreciate the honest, objective feedback and I'll see what I can do. I RP with Ashtani regularly and poke at ex-Shallamese sometimes (though I rarely get more than a "lol we don't give a damn our city was destroyed you noob, we're getting a new one", though it might just be Cin's approach), but I'll keep at this. 

I'm not saying, for the record, that Hashan is stellar and has no issues. I'm not even really referring to the non-existence jokes. But there seems to be a pervasive, underlying belief that the city genuinely sucks (metaphorical) balls, and this bothers me - I was really nervous about joining due to this perception, and it turned out to be fantastic. I would hate for someone to miss out on that because of a forums-joke. If "insular" is the only problem you're cognizant of, please say that.

That's all. 

tl;dr - Hashan surprised me with its' awesomeness, and I don't want to scare people with jokes that it blows.

Chryenth

I think part of the problem is the people on the forum generally know that Hashan isn't as bad as they make out, so they feel OK joking about it - and then the people who don't know that Hashan isn't like that assume it is.

So what Cinya just said.