Quick Combat Questions

Jacen

Ernam said:

First of all, you don't need to "counter" Piety.  RNG walking "counters" it just fine, a fixed percentage of the time, often on the first or second attempt.

Since this is quite literally the only form of hindrance available to priest, I see no reason to gripe about it.  Apostates and Paladins are kinda in the same boat, but have other options.

Also, I don't understand why throw monolith/tumble would require 10 attempts.  Devo users can tumble cancel, but at the expense of affliction/mana momentum, as the ability is very slow, and also has a chance to fail (unless for some ridiculous reason you don't have Blissful Ignorance).

Would take tentacles, access to double limb break, hamstring, pinshot, or even gravehands, over piety any day.  They're all better.

10 rooms of piety? That's what we were just fighting in.

Jovolo

The counter is to keep trying or use one of the methods Ernam listed (Tumble is a 4 second bypass available to everyone). Why do you need to icewall? The movement hinder for them is 33%. You're going to get really bad luck one day, and walk out of it three times in a row the next. It's the same fo the devotionist/necromancer.

Jacen

Wait they hit their own piety/ghands now?

Iuneos

Holy fuck everyone wants everything nerfed if it's not something they can use.  Piety/ghands are perfectly fine. 

Jovolo

Jacen said:

Wait they hit their own piety/ghands now?

No. Look at it from their side and reread what I said. They equally have the good luck of someone trying to escape and it preventing them long enough to obtain a lock or complete a break chain, or bad luck and the target gets out first or second try, leaving their momentum back at 0 or a limb or two reset.

Jacen

Sorry, thought "them" was referring to people, not the abilities.

I understand that momentum classes need ways to keep the target from walking out, I get that. I just don't see why preventing movement 32 (and maybe more) consecutive times should be on the table, or why they should get to lay piety in double digit numbers of rooms.

Idk, I know I'm not qualified to have this conversation, just tired of leading the fight in a city that's obviously not meant to fight.

Kenway

Just wondering if anyone has the person applied health/vitality lines for fracture cures.

Tael

My understanding is that the new automated curing has a slight lag of about 125ms to simulate latency (which seems silly, but whatever - it sounds as though most people use it anyway for the built-in anti-illusion).

Does the new built in queueing system have the same simulated latency?

Ernam

You're correct about the 125ms delay on most actions (but not necessarily between them).

No, there is no latency delay for queueing, as the entire point of the system is to negate latency as a major combat factor.

Darklyre

I imagine that piety/gravehands might be both more useful and less hated if, instead of RNG determining whether you got to escape from it, it simply applied a hamstring effect to any enemies in the room.

Ernam

Piety would be totally useless if it worked like you are suggesting.

Perhaps play a Devotion using class before suggesting ideas on changes to Devotion.

Addama

The main difference between piety and hamstringing, for me at least, is that I can walk out of piety.

Ernam

Piety is fine, aside from the fact that it doesn't stop several abilities that it probably should (universe, aerial, etc)

Atalkez

What is the most "correct/legit" counter to Inquisition?

It can't be cured right, only decays?

I run from Inquisition every time, as I find that to be the best option.

Ernam

It can't be cured, it's 10, 20, or 30 seconds in duration based on your level of mana when you are hit (<80, <70, <60).

The best way to counter inquisition is to not get hit by it below 70%.  The 70-79% 10 second version of inquisition isn't that big of a deal.  20 seconds is usually enough to kill people with (although primarily since it requires <70% mana and moves absolve requirement to 70%).  Should also be noted that nothing in hellsight (or spiritwrack, or chasten) stops evade (other than RNG paralysis, which is obviously always cured first).

Also you seem to have it figured out. Inquisition -> Hamstring/evade -> 100% survival rate since Evade is unstoppable and I can't chase.  You also lose absolutely nothing by doing this, for example, in the fight we just participated in, you evaded away from inquisition, fully cured up, returned, and began a kill sequence (which put me at 300 health and 900 bleeding) without any momentum whatsoever.

Other than that, just sip/conserve mana.  Inquisition isn't a death sentence by any means, it is more of a mid-setup ability to help us boost momentum (at the expense of 3 seconds of eq and allowing you to cure 2-3 afflictions)

Key note for you personally, you don't converve mana... at all.  You do OK at prio-ing mana sip, but there's a lot more to mana management than just 'hh'.  If nothing else, you should be extremely judicial with mana when you have inquisition.

Classes without evade can just spam shield.  That's asking for hellsight (not stopped by shield) but it's not a big deal since it only lasts about 6 seconds and you can easily sip/moss up from behind shield, preventing another inquisition.

Atalkez

Mana conservation noted. Will start using shin manatrans more.

Ernam

Atalkez said:

Mana conservation noted. Will start using shin manatrans more.

I have a whole "mana conservation mode" toggle, and even added an SVO prompt tag for it when it's enabled to keep track of when it's enabled.

When enabled, it basically swaps like 10 SVO options to different settings, and swaps sipping prio to mana.

This still requires manually toggling back to health sips occasionally, and in rare cases, manual clotting, although so far the "system" that took me about 5 minutes to write up has dramatically boosted my ability to survive mana-damage classes.

Some classes really need to carefully watch their offensive mana use too , although BM isn't one of them.

Question:  I almost never used health/mana trans as BM (mostly because I never really needed to) - but does it require/use balance?  If so, how long?

Addama

I assume it's balanced to imitate Transmute, which means it will use EQ and require but not take balance.

Vaehl

You can use health and manatrans when prone so it's not like transmute. It uses equilibrium, if I recall correctly, and if I had to pin an eq cost to an ability like that I'd probably put 3-4 seconds.

Ernam

If it takes eq, even a little bit, it's fine.  It doesn't give that much health/mana, and is nothing compared to Vitality/Kai Heal/Numb, (which I'm mildly surprised BM didn't get, along with all of the rest of the most ridiculous abilities from other classes it inherited).

In general, I'm personally in support of any kind of limited damage-spike counter methods, provided they're not so dramatic that they totally eliminate properly executed damage kill methods as a possible kill method (like Numb).

Eld

1 second eq.

Vaehl

wo

Ernam

Was expecting 2-2.5.  Potentially pretty silly depending on amount of shin used and amount of healing per use.

Again, I never used it (never needed to).

Addama

Ernam said:

Was expecting 2-2.5.  Potentially pretty silly depending on amount of shin used and amount of healing per use.

Again, I never used it (never needed to).

It's still less silly than Kai Heal.

Ernam

 
I mean, it's dramatically faster than Kai Heal.  They're both pretty nuts though.

Eld

Ernam said:

Was expecting 2-2.5.  Potentially pretty silly depending on amount of shin used and amount of healing per use.

Again, I never used it (never needed to).

Used to be 15 health/mana per shin spent, recently changed to .5% of max.

Ernam

So up to a theoretical 50% max health for 1 second eq, while prone?

I mean, that's... a little silly, but BM does take a lot of damage, without heavy artefacts and/or horkval.

Dorn

In theory, yes - bearing in mind that you're unlikely to actually have full shin when you need it.

In practice, it's more like a 30-40% heal, that you get to use once a kill-sequence at best. Top speed, you can go from empty to full Shin in about 10 seconds, but you're foregoing any and all prep work for that - in actual combat, you're likely to cap out after about 45-60 seconds depending on what exactly you're doing, how badly you're hindered, etcetera. Now nothing's really stopping you pushing your Shin up to full and then switching into prep, but you're still talking 15-20 seconds in live combat, which is a pretty long time against most classes - that's nearly a full prep cycle against a Monk, last I checked, and they're the ones you're most likely to want to have full Shin against, for health purposes at least.

Not to say it's not powerful - it absolutely is, even pre-buff it could be useful - but it's a lot more reasonable when you factor in that it's basically a one-shot active defense that takes a minimum of 10-15 seconds of setup. I'm pretty sure it also can't be used with broken arms, but I might be mis-remembering that one.

Ernam

Hmm.  Going to classlead at least an increase in eq cost.

Exelethril

How do wands of reflections work?