Quick Combat Questions

Antonius

Ah, that makes a bit more sense. Sawbones would be absolutely awful if it increased salve balance on restoration, not sure anybody would use it.

Eld

Sena said:

Sawbones has a 2.5 second balance cost, requires eq and balance to use, and shows (for all limbs) whether the limb is at perfect health, barely damaged (between 0 and ~36% limb damage), lightly damaged (~36-60%), moderately damaged (60-80%), heavily damaged (80-99%), broken (level 1 break), or mangled (level 2 break).

It's been a while since I've actually used it, those numbers/messages could have changed.

I actually can't find anything (in my notes or on the forums) about how much it slows down restore.

Not sure exactly what you're referring to as level 1/2 here, but iirc, it's broken/crippled/mangled for mending/level 1 resto/level 2 resto breaks, respectively.

As for the eq cost, 

Sena said:

Iocun said:

Should be a flat increase of 1 second for all stages, I think.

Finally got around to checking 3 and 4, it is just +1. So 4s/4s/7s/10s/11s equilibrium at 0/1/2/3/4 limbs crippled.

From http://forums.achaea.com/discussion/comment/57868/#Comment_57868, for context.

Sena

It was originally showing "broken" for a level 1 restoration break (which was somewhat contradictory, but there's a lot of conflicting terminology when it comes to limb breaks), and didn't show mending breaks at all.

Eld

Sena said:

It was originally showing "broken" for a level 1 restoration break (which was somewhat contradictory, but there's a lot of conflicting terminology when it comes to limb breaks), and didn't show mending breaks at all.

Hm, I don't remember it ever not showing mending breaks, but maybe I missed that. I just remember being confused by "broken" and "crippled" being swapped from where I would have expected. I should have some logs showing at least those two, but probably not mangled.

Bukariin

Monk/knight damage doesn't cause mending breaks ever, only restore breaks that get downgraded to mending breaks after restore is applied.  Epseth/epteth do, but they don't add limb damage, which means they're not a consideration for limb counters or Sawbones.  Mending breaks are more like a simple affliction.

Antonius

Sawbones has been showing mending breaks since at least the 8th March 2013, possibly earlier than that. I typo'd the inconsistent/confusing terminology back then but nothing happened with it; still shows mending breaks as "broken" and level one breaks as "crippled".

Sena

Eld said:

I just remember being confused by "broken" and "crippled" being swapped from where I would have expected.

You're right, it was actually showing "crippled" for a level 1 break.

I tried to find a log of sawbones against someone with a mending break, but either I never actually tested it myself or I wasn't logging when I tested for some reason. Do the mending breaks hide the limb damage (showing the mending break instead of how close you are to a restoration break)?

Eld

Bukariin said:

Monk/knight damage doesn't cause mending breaks ever, only restore breaks that get downgraded to mending breaks after restore is applied.  Epseth/epteth do, but they don't add limb damage, which means they're not a consideration for limb counters or Sawbones.  Mending breaks are more like a simple affliction.

Regardless of whether you think they're relevant to the purpose of the trait, it still shows them. Would be pretty silly not to, imo.

Eld

Sena said:

Eld said:

I just remember being confused by "broken" and "crippled" being swapped from where I would have expected.

You're right, it was actually showing "crippled" for a level 1 break.

I tried to find a log of sawbones against someone with a mending break, but either I never actually tested it myself or I wasn't logging when I tested for some reason. Do the mending breaks hide the limb damage (showing the mending break instead of how close you are to a restoration break)?

Not sure I have any logs that would show for sure. Most, if not all, will be between restoration and mending applies when I haven't done any further damage.

Eld

Hm, from this one, it looks like it does mask it, yes (or did as of last November).

Gamoneterik's aura of weapons rebounding disappears.

Lightning-quick, Gamoneterik jabs your left leg with a gilt-edged rapier of fine steel.

The attack rebounds back onto Gamoneterik!

A bell-like tone rings out from Gamoneterik's rapier, echoed by the sound of cracking bone as himself's left leg snaps in two.

5905h, 4051m, 28725e, 19451w cexkdb-

Gamoneterik's mouth moves in some sort of song which you do not hear.

5905h, 4051m, 28725e, 19451w cexkdb-

Your aura of weapons rebounding disappears.

You cast a discerning glance over Gamoneterik's limbs and find:

Head:          Perfect health

Torso:         Perfect health

Left arm:      Broken

Right arm:     Perfect health

Left leg:      Broken

Right leg:     Perfect health

5905h, 4051m, 28725e, 19451w cekdb-

This was starting from no limb damage at all, so without the break from the bard stuff, his leg would have shown "Barely damaged" after that jab. 

Bukariin

Eld said:

Bukariin said:

Monk/knight damage doesn't cause mending breaks ever, only restore breaks that get downgraded to mending breaks after restore is applied.  Epseth/epteth do, but they don't add limb damage, which means they're not a consideration for limb counters or Sawbones.  Mending breaks are more like a simple affliction.

Regardless of whether you think they're relevant to the purpose of the trait, it still shows them. Would be pretty silly not to, imo.

You mean showing me broken limbs that aren't broken?  Okay, so let's say I count on Sawlimbs, see two "broken" legs, prone my opponent, they stand immediately.  That doesn't seem very useful.

Sawlimbs would be infinitely more useful if it identified both the status of the limb (broken/not broken) and the health of the limb (remaining/total) so that I could deduce from such information exactly how close I am to a Level 1 or Level 2 break.  Such information might not be strictly IC, but neither is the result of assessing a target's remaining hitpoints.

Jovolo

I don't get why it would show mending breaks, they're totally irrelevant to limb damage itself and seem like more of a hindrance to the use of the trait than a benefit.

Eld

Jovolo said:

I don't get why it would show mending breaks, they're totally irrelevant to limb damage itself and seem like more of a hindrance to the use of the trait than a benefit.

The point about mending breaks masking limb damage hadn't occurred to me, since it's never been an issue for me. Not sure if it would be a particular hindrance to people who use venoms or other mending-break inducing skills. Can't think of any other reason it would be a hindrance. OTOH, I can't really think of any particular advantages aside from mayyyybe having a little better idea of why someone's applying or something like that.

I think my reaction that it would be silly not to show it was more just a "why throw away information?" sort of thing, but in terms of whether or not it should have been there to begin with, I have no strong opinion (unless it actually is a noticeable hindrance for some classes that make good use of it, in which case it shouldn't).

Jacen

You drop to the floor and sweep your legs round at Dajio.

 Dajio is prone! Time for throws!!!

 Dajio is prone! Time for throws!!!

 Dajio is prone! Time for throws!!!

5752[100%]h, 3224[99%]m, [96%]e, [96%]w 49.4% ekdb[27][M]-

I do not recognise anything called that here.

5752[100%]h, 3224[99%]m, [96%]e, [96%]w 49.4% ekdb[27][M]-

You cannot see that being here.

5752[100%]h, 3224[99%]m, [96%]e, [96%]w 49.4% ekdb[27][M]-

I've seen this happen a few times now. How is he there for the kick but gone for the punches?

Eld

Jacen said:

You drop to the floor and sweep your legs round at Dajio.

 Dajio is prone! Time for throws!!!

 Dajio is prone! Time for throws!!!

 Dajio is prone! Time for throws!!!

5752[100%]h, 3224[99%]m, [96%]e, [96%]w 49.4% ekdb[27][M]-

I do not recognise anything called that here.

5752[100%]h, 3224[99%]m, [96%]e, [96%]w 49.4% ekdb[27][M]-

You cannot see that being here.

5752[100%]h, 3224[99%]m, [96%]e, [96%]w 49.4% ekdb[27][M]-

I've seen this happen a few times now. How is he there for the kick but gone for the punches?

You're actually missing, but your trigger's getting it wrong?

Bukariin

Does your prone trigger gag the actual contact notification?  If so, you might somehow be triggering on misses.

Jacen

Raw log. Unfortunately I gag some of the stuff I send, so I added in bold the format of the commands being sent.

You have recovered equilibrium.

5752h, 3224m, 26816e, 19923w exkdb-27-
WAKE;WAKE;STAND;GET AXE;UNWIELD SHIELD;JPK;KICK;PUNCH;PUNCH;

You already are awake.

5752h, 3224m, 26816e, 19923w exkdb-27-

You already are awake.

5752h, 3224m, 26816e, 19923w exkdb-27-

You are not fallen or kneeling.

5752h, 3224m, 26816e, 19923w exkdb-27-

I see no "axe" to take.

5752h, 3224m, 26816e, 19923w exkdb-27-

You cease wielding a Shield of Absorption in your left hand.

5752h, 3224m, 26816e, 19923w exkdb-27-

You cannot see that being here.

5752h, 3224m, 26816e, 19923w exkdb-27-

You drop to the floor and sweep your legs round at Dajio.

You knock the legs out from under Dajio and send him sprawling.

5752h, 3224m, 26816e, 19923w ekdb-27-

I do not recognise anything called that here.

5752h, 3224m, 26816e, 19923w ekdb-27-

You cannot see that being here.

5752h, 3224m, 26816e, 19923w ekdb-27-
This is where I spammed the combo

You already are awake.

5752h, 3256m, 26836e, 19935w ekdb-17-

You already are awake.

5752h, 3225m, 26836e, 19929w ekdb-17-

You must regain balance first.

5752h, 3225m, 26836e, 19929w ekdb-17-

You must regain balance first.

5752h, 3225m, 26836e, 19929w ekdb-17-

You must regain balance first.

5752h, 3225m, 26836e, 19929w ekdb-17-

You must regain balance first.

5752h, 3225m, 26836e, 19929w ekdb-17-

Your body is not synchronised with your mind.

5752h, 3225m, 26836e, 19929w ekdb-17-

Nothing can be seen here by that name.

5752h, 3225m, 26836e, 19929w ekdb-17-

Nothing can be seen here by that name.

5752h, 3225m, 26836e, 19929w ekdb-17-

Antonius

Were you flying at the time? Knocking him prone while in the air would also put him down on the ground.

Jacen

Ugh well don't I feel stupid.

Suladan

Don't get what's happening here.

Both Josoul and Jinsun fly away and then I get warped? Also, I wasn't flying - so warp can target those on the ground while you're flying?


950hp (20%) 4349mp (84%) 99%e 71%w [cdbkr] Jinsun n|s|w 16:51:33.832
 >[[ NOT HERE ]]<
950hp (20%) 4349mp (84%) 99%e 71%w [cdbkr] Jinsun n|s|w 16:51:33.851
[Curing]: EAT POTASH
You eat a potash crystal.
You feel your health and mana replenished.
1324hp (28%) 4761mp (92%) 99%e 71%w [cdbkr] Jinsun n|s|w 16:51:33.839(+374h, 8.0%, +412m, 8.0%)
Josoul flies away to the beyond.
Josoul reaches out and clenches a fist before you. You scream and double over in agony as your
skin bubbles with gangrenous growths.
343hp (7%) 4686mp (90%) 99%e 71%w [cdbkrh] Jinsun n|s|w 16:51:34.871(-981h, 20.9%)
Jinsun flies away to the beyond.
Jinsun reaches out and clenches a fist before you. You scream and double over in agony as your
skin bubbles with gangrenous growths.
Unable to maintain cohesion, your mutated and warped flesh sloughs off from your bones as you
collapses to the ground in a twisted heap.
You have been slain by Jinsun.

Shunsui

Not 100% sure, but I believe doppleganger warp can hit you at any elevation.

Melodie

Doppleganger. They can move them to your location no matter your elevation, and throw a selection of tarot cards or warp you. Get yourself a group of orb sigils and a good, quick alias to throw them - you'll need them!

Suladan

@Shunsui‌ @Melodie‌ Gotcha. Ok, thanks.

Achilles

They also can't warp through shield, so assuming they haven't shot a volley of meteors/star tarots prior to the warp you can simply shield.  Can avoid that deadly combo by going indoors and shielding.

It used to be worse, dopples were area wide and could throw hangedman.  They can still ignore doors and walls and they don't respect elevation differences.

Sachika

Hello. Exactly how much more difficult is serpent combat compared to runewarden combat? 

Bukariin

Hard to say exactly since one is a damage class and the other is an affliction class

Jovolo

Much harder, haha. Runewarden is one of the simplest, cookie-cutter classes you can play alongside Sylvan.

Achilles

Sachika said:

Hello. Exactly how much more difficult is serpent combat compared to runewarden combat? 

1v1 Serpent is much harder but has a higher ceiling.

Group combat serpent is super easy currently as they are harder to find, can evade and can easily just snipe a target with relatively little risk (outside of a soulspear and a bunch of counter shots).

Santar

Achilles said:

Sachika said:

Hello. Exactly how much more difficult is serpent combat compared to runewarden combat? 

1v1 Serpent is much harder but has a higher ceiling.

Group combat serpent is super easy currently as they are harder to find, can evade and can easily just snipe a target with relatively little risk (outside of a soulspear and a bunch of counter shots).

Not really true. Serpent has a fairly low ceiling. Runewarden is definitely higher.

The way it works is basically Serpent is more difficult to get the basics of, and reasonably difficult to get a good grasp on. Once you get to a certain point though, Serpent sort of plateaus. That's at the very top tiers though. Serpent has it pretty good for mid-level fighting right now. Runewarden is a better class at the very highest level though.

At low skill levels, Runewarden will be far easier than Serpent though, obviously.

Valus

So I embraced my class (Monk) what would be a good 2nd major trait for me? and what minor traits should I have?