Quick Combat Questions

Arador

@Kardal be careful of Mhaldorian Heads. They use teeth.

Exelethril

Is there a counter to Kai Banish besides having an(or several) extra mounts? Also, what % of Kai does it consume?

Jovolo

It costs 40 Kai, and the counter is to run until the mount comes back and then whistle;mount. Or just tumble out of piety/Gular into wunjo/nairat.

Mizik

Mule army, yo

Kuy

1. What is the proc rate and stun length on the Troll's racial trait?

2. Is it possible to inscribe multiple tarot cards at once, or must you do it one-by-one?

3. Flinging a hierophant card will consume balance. Will issuing the command consume balance, as well?

4. What does a head break do?  I've been assuming it is a concussion.

5. What does a concussion do, with as many specifics as possible?

Trevize

Kuy said:

2. Is it possible to inscribe multiple tarot cards at once, or must you do it one-by-one?

One at a time, but there are arties/MC items to help.

Quill of Inscribing: 250 credits

   - Cuts tarot-card inscribe time in half, when wielded.

Golden Quill Nib: 8 Mayan Crowns

   - Empowered by an ancient Seleucarian enchantment, this item has a

     50% chance to copy the current tarot inscription to another blank

     card in your inventory.

Sidonia

Kuy said:

3. Flinging a hierophant card will consume balance. Will issuing the command consume balance, as well?

No, just requires undeaf.

Sena

I don't know much about troll stun, but out of 200 newbie punches, only 4 of them stunned, so close to 2%. This may be different for other attacks, or scale with damage, or some other factors, so I'm not really sure. The duration of the stun was 0.9-1s.

Level 1 head damage causes stupidity. Level 2 head damage causes concussion, which gives frequent, invisible amnesia (not sure on the exact speed).

Kuy

Sena said:

I don't know much about troll stun, but out of 200 newbie punches, only 4 of them stunned, so close to 2%. This may be different for other attacks, or scale with damage, or some other factors, so I'm not really sure. The duration of the stun was 0.9-1s.

Level 1 head damage causes stupidity. Level 2 head damage causes concussion, which gives frequent, invisible amnesia (not sure on the exact speed).

What differentiates level 1 head damage and level 2 head damage?  It is hard for me to draw the similarity between limb breaks.

Sidonia said:

Kuy said:

3. Flinging a hierophant card will consume balance. Will issuing the command consume balance, as well?

No, just requires undeaf.

Is it any sort of deafness, or is it like hypnosis (in that if you a blind, but have mindseye up, you can still be hypnotised)?

Sidonia

Any sort of deafness will block it with or without mindseye.

Sena

Kuy said:

What differentiates level 1 head damage and level 2 head damage?  It is hard for me to draw the similarity between limb breaks.

It's identical to arm/leg breaks, same mechanics, same amount of limb damage required.

If you mean that you're not familiar with limb damage at all: It takes a certain number of hits (with an attack that causes limb damage, based on max health) for level 1 damage (broken limbs), then the same number of hits again (if it isn't cured) for level 2 damage (mangled limbs).

Kuy

I think the disconnect is because of my experience in Lusternia and trying to translate here. If a monk is prepping your limbs, I thought they are going for a level two break, which would require regeneration?

Anedhel

@Kuy: "limb damage" can sometimes be a misnomer. What you call a level 1 head break is, actually, level 2 limb damage- same goes for torso. Mild internal trauma (level 1 torso) and whatever the level 1 head damage is called on diagnose requires an application of restoration to heal. Serious internal trauma (level 2 torso) and whatever its equivalent head-wise is (I don't remember the exact affliction name), is in fact mangled, which is to say, level 3 limb damage.

Level 1 damage (crippled) is what you cure with mending. Partially damaged is what is called level 2, which requires one restoration application to fix (this is, again, level 1 torso and head breaks), and mangled body parts (mangled is what limbs are called and level 2 torso and head damage) are fixed more difficultly. Can be confusing at times.

Kuy

Thanks!  I think that clears it up a little bit.

Sena

It's worth noting that the 3-level system (with mending breaks being level 1) and 2-level system (with mending breaks not being counted) are both just player-made conventions, there's no official terminology (as far as I know) so there's a lot of inconsistency and confusion, then there's the lack of consistency in how the game refers to the afflictions (mending breaks are referred to as crippled limbs, shrivelled limbs, or broken limbs, level 1 restoration breaks are referred to as damaged, partially damaged, or broken, concussions from head damage and concussions from vodun/puppet concussion (which aren't exactly the same) are both called concussions, etc.). It took me forever to figure out how it all worked.

Eld

Kuy said:

I think the disconnect is because of my experience in Lusternia and trying to translate here. If a monk is prepping your limbs, I thought they are going for a level two break, which would require regeneration?

There's a lot of conflicting terminology that gets thrown around. There are crippled or shriveled limbs that just require mending to cure, which some people refer to as level 1 breaks; they only exist for arms and legs, not head and torso. Then there are two levels of limb damage, requiring one application of restoration or reconstructive per level; those are sometimes called level 2 and level 3 breaks, which is probably what you're thinking of from Lusternia. Applied to the head, the first of those (requiring one application of restoration) afflicts with stupidity, and the second gives you a concussion. While you have a concussion, you get amnesia periodically (a little slower than once per second, I think).

Eld

Sena said:

It's worth noting that the 3-level system (with mending breaks being level 1) and 2-level system (with mending breaks not being counted) are both just player-made conventions, there's no official terminology (as far as I know) so there's a lot of inconsistency and confusion, then there's the lack of consistency in how the game refers to the afflictions (mending breaks are referred to as crippled limbs, shrivelled limbs, or broken limbs, level 1 restoration breaks are referred to as damaged, partially damaged, or broken, concussions from head damage and concussions from vodun/puppet concussion (which aren't exactly the same) are both called concussions, etc.). It took me forever to figure out how it all worked.

The closest thing I know of to official terminology is what's in HELP BODYPARTDAMAGE, where the distinctions are limb damage States 1 and 2 (requiring resto) and broken limbs (requiring mending). Just to add to the confusing array of examples of terminology you gave, though, LIMBPROBE from the Sawbones trait uses "Broken" or mending breaks and "Crippled" for the first level of restoration break.

Kuy

Nah. Lusty limb damage is way different. Limb damage stacks and stays forever until you apply health to that limb, curing some of it. It uses the same balance sipping health uses. It's only used by warrior and monk archetypes (monks do more hp damage to damaged limbs, and warriors build limb damage to give various afflictions at different levels). It's waaaayyy different here, and divorcing the two in my head is a little frustrating, heh.

Exelethril

Does "Instill" bypass shield? Also, are the afflictions random?

Antonius

Yes for bypassing shield, no for being random. The Occultist chooses what to afflict with when using instill. Entity affs are random.

Iocun

Eld said:

Sena said:

It's worth noting that the 3-level system (with mending breaks being level 1) and 2-level system (with mending breaks not being counted) are both just player-made conventions, there's no official terminology (as far as I know) so there's a lot of inconsistency and confusion, then there's the lack of consistency in how the game refers to the afflictions (mending breaks are referred to as crippled limbs, shrivelled limbs, or broken limbs, level 1 restoration breaks are referred to as damaged, partially damaged, or broken, concussions from head damage and concussions from vodun/puppet concussion (which aren't exactly the same) are both called concussions, etc.). It took me forever to figure out how it all worked.

The closest thing I know of to official terminology is what's in HELP BODYPARTDAMAGE, where the distinctions are limb damage States 1 and 2 (requiring resto) and broken limbs (requiring mending). Just to add to the confusing array of examples of terminology you gave, though, LIMBPROBE from the Sawbones trait uses "Broken" or mending breaks and "Crippled" for the first level of restoration break.

We probably should just say "mending break", "restoration break", and "double restoration break", to make it clear.

Accipiter

Help 13.9 Body Part Damage says:

Some have been confused in the past by the difference between State 1 and

State 2 damage on a limb, and a limb being broken. It should be emphasized

that they are _not_ the same thing. 

So wouldn't that be the official word on it? Level 1/2 are limb damage only, and broken is the mending level.

EDIT: Though there is a little confusion in the table in that file. It says that level 1 head is stupidity and level 1 torso is bleeding, but level 1 on limbs is just broken?

Antonius

The nice thing about using level one for the first level of actual limb damage (i.e. not mending cured) and level two for the second level is that it corresponds to the number of restoration applications required to cure it.

@Accipter: A level one head break gives the stupidity affliction and level one torso gives a small amount of bleeding, in addition to requiring the restoration applications, though I guess if you don't know that it may be a bit confusing.

Exelethril

Antonius said:

Yes for bypassing shield, no for being random. The Occultist chooses what to afflict with when using instill. Entity affs are random.

I'm starting to wonder if not keeping up blindness as a defense would be a viable strategy against occultists in 1 vs 1 situations to avoid getting stacked with afflictions after Attend. Also, Cadmus isn't based off solely mental afflictions(I think someone mentioned that it was somewhere)

How many times does the "Devil" tarot allow you to throw two tarots, by the way?

Jovolo

No, but Cadmus has a specific set of afflictions that count towards the three needed for Cadmus (I don't actually know what all of them are, but it should include at least: Haemophilia, Lethargy, Darkshade, Clumsiness, Sensitivity, HealthLeech). Hecate is any five afflictions, no specifics. 

Devil gives you three flings with a second random Tarot before it wears off, if the user has DevilMark up. Keeping blindness up is probably just as good an idea as curing any other afflictions. They could start their stack almost any other way, with a jab or an instill, attend is just good as an opener because it keeps them undeaf for sensitive instill/bloodleech. The reason they outpace your curing leading into sticking afflictions is because they outpace your curing, nothing to do with attend. Entity can hit once every 1.7 seconds, and instill up to 2 seconds. That's nine afflictions in seven seconds, with you being able to eat five herbs and touch tree once.

Antonius

Exelethril said:

Antonius said:

Yes for bypassing shield, no for being random. The Occultist chooses what to afflict with when using instill. Entity affs are random.

I'm starting to wonder if not keeping up blindness as a defense would be a viable strategy against occultists in 1 vs 1 situations to avoid getting stacked with afflictions after Attend. Also, Cadmus isn't based off solely mental afflictions(I think someone mentioned that it was somewhere)

How many times does the "Devil" tarot allow you to throw two tarots, by the way?

There's no reason to keep blindness up against Occultists, as far as I recall. I also delay putting deafness back up on attend, so I can cure the afflictions that come immediately afterwards rather than using herb balance on deafness straight away. Touch tree if you have more than one or two afflictions, focus occasionally to get rid of the affliction from whichever ent delays focus balance.

"They could start their stack almost any other way, with a jab or an instill, attend is just good as an opener because it keeps them undeaf for sensitive instill/bloodleech."

Attend is particularly good as an opener because stock svo has blind/deaf above about half of the bloodleech afflictions, and everybody has them on keepup. People are wasting herb balance putting defences back up that they don't need, and as a result putting themselves behind on curing the afflictions that will actually kill them straight from the start.

I wrote this (for svo) in about twenty minutes months ago, and the difference against Occultists was absolutely huge; I went from dying to Dunn in somewhere between 12 and 20 seconds to actually being able to stand in the room with Occultists for decent amounts of time and kill them.

Jovolo

Oh... Well, try lowering deaf and blind on the Svo queue when fighting an Occultist if you're having that issue Exel! One of these days I'm just going to get Svo purely so I understand where people are coming from. 

Exelethril

It's not an issue with svo per se, I think - it's more about the wastage of herb balance that would have otherwise been spent on curing the follow up afflictions from Instill to lead into Cadmus, since those get queued in rather early. I can see why not re-deffing those defenses would lead to getting pwned rather hard in a group situation though.

Eld

Accipiter said:

Help 13.9 Body Part Damage says:

Some have been confused in the past by the difference between State 1 and

State 2 damage on a limb, and a limb being broken. It should be emphasized

that they are _not_ the same thing. 

So wouldn't that be the official word on it? Level 1/2 are limb damage only, and broken is the mending level.

EDIT: Though there is a little confusion in the table in that file. It says that level 1 head is stupidity and level 1 torso is bleeding, but level 1 on limbs is just broken?

No level 1/2 limb damage, by the definitions in that HELP, is completely separate from being broken or not. You just have to cure the limb damage before you can cure the break.

Sidonia

If unnamable wasn't so unreliable and costly Occultists could totally exploit you not keeping blind/deaf.