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Quick Combat Questions

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  • RyzethRyzeth
    Aegoth said:
    as for pipes/golem, that isnt a bug
    Was referring to them being in the same prompt inside of retardation, not to say that the pipes/golem couldn't be done at the same time.
  • AegothAegoth
    edited March 2017
    oh yea, def a bug, but a bug literally everyone who uses queueing can't avoid sadly. Mak is aware of it
  • RyzethRyzeth
    I'm fairly sure I recall him saying he fixed it in one of the classleads (2 or 3 rounds ago, I forgot). Could be misremembering I guess.
  • AegothAegoth
    he thought he did. turns out the problem goes a looot deeper into the abyss
  • FarrahFarrah
    edited March 2017
    Atalkez said:
    If you already have the alias defined serverside, all you're sending is queue add equal X. So unless you need to change that (which takes the retardation knock), you can just queue it like normal.

    Beyond that, metawake would have helped a lot, though she can strip that and put it on a cooldown. Tumble more, prioritize insomnia

    This isn't actually true. If you do "setalias blah stand/hop/fly" then do "blah", only "fly" will go through in retardation.

    The bug is with queueing. If you queue, without a serverside alias, like "queue add eqbal stand|hop|fly" all three commands go through. It has nothing to do with the aliases. Though I also don't think doing 'setalias blah' triggers retardation.

    Gero said:
    Thanks for the tips everyone, I can see that I also did this:

    Imbuing your voice with power, you intone, 'Morudai'
    Which set the location instead of escaping, but that just slowed my escape.

    But, if I did managed to tumble out and escape, if said person constantly went back into Ret and I have to fight through it is there anything I can do? My offense requires stacked affliction pressure, so would need to hit quite a few times to get anywhere. I cannot see a way around this at all.

    Just curare. If she's paralysed, she can't attack you, and you can get as much affliction pressure as you need. Instill the scythe before you enter retardation, then shadow reap target curare repeatedly. Depthswalker is much better than magi in retardation.

  • AegothAegoth
    @Farrah has it right
  • DochithaDochitha
    1. She is doing double action in ret, which is quite an abuse of known bugs. 
    2. Double amnesia pet. 
    3. Panpipes golem.

    Unless you see it coming and prepared for it, she did piece these together very well and on her way to #1 ranked. 
  • AnedhelAnedhel
    How is it okay to not only continue ignoring that a bug's a bug, but plan your entire offence around it? Isn't that like a super no-no? :/
  • AegothAegoth
    You'd have to ask basically everyone in the game to fix their aliases in order not to
  • RyzethRyzeth
    I fixed mine after I saw the post saying that he fixed them... If I had known it wasn't actually fixed, I wouldn't have done it >.> Oh well.
  • KoganKogan
    I think there is a distinct difference in your aliases doing "what they do" when you happen to be in retardation and planning out all of your offense/aliases around bug abuse though.
  • RyzethRyzeth
    edited March 2017
    Kogan said:
    I think there is a distinct difference in your aliases doing "what they do" when you happen to be in retardation and planning out all of your offense/aliases around bug abuse though.
    While you're not entirely wrong... Refusing to change them, whilst knowing full well they work that way in retardation, is the definition of bug abuse.
  • AegothAegoth
    I mean.. I'll change my aliases if everyone else does. I'm not gonna put myself at a knowing disadvantage, that'd be absurd, and I wouldn't expect anyone else to do the same. Right now, that's how things are, and you gotta live with it until it's fixed. I'm not even using the obvious cheese shit (panpipes/destab)... I'm using the same combo's I'd use out of ret. Everyone has the same advantage if you use queuing. 
  • RyzethRyzeth
    Oh, not disagreeing with you. Just saying that trying to claim it isn't bug abuse is silly (which is what he seemed to be implying)
  • ExelethrilExelethril
    edited March 2017
    Just strike first and have an adjacent mono, if you don't happen to strike first. Kinda sucks that you have to waste ret balance on "insomnia" with that blatant bug abuse though, which would otherwise be used to cure. 

    Also, append "touch stuff" at the start of every alias.

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  • TaryiusTaryius
    I don't know quite how a feel here..

    I wouldn't label it to the same extent of bug abuse as setting an alias like 'stand/eat bloodroot/clot/sip health/eat potash/attack' in retardation so you can do all that stuff on one balance.

    But at the same time, you're using an offense strategy that you know for a fact shouldn't work. If for some reason I found out that Shamans could fashion/curse in an alias on the same balance, should I work my whole strategy out around that? Or am I abusing a known bug until it's fixed.

    *shrugs*
  • RyzethRyzeth
    edited March 2017
    Taryius said:
    If for some reason I found out that Shamans could fashion/curse in an alias on the same balance
    Technically they can. Up to 8 fashions in a single balance, which is also really easy to achieve. Just requires some effort, but it's pretty consistent once you get it down. :3

    e: Not saying you're "wrong" for doing it, as Aegoth said: why would you stupidly disadvantage yourself when everyone else is doing it. You're asking to die at that point... Just saying it still is, indeed, bug abuse.
  • FarrahFarrah
    edited March 2017

    It's pretty sketchy to deliberately rely solely upon a bug to win combat rankings, tbh. I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that. I'd have way sicker strats than panpipe/destabilize too, if I wanted to abuse the bug as magi. Ask @Aegoth

    It's a little different when it's a group fight, a magi drops ret, and just about everyone in the room is still spamming queue attacks. Hard to say people should bother putting in extra time and effort coding just to put themselves at a disadvantage compared to the people who are lazier.

    But it'd be ideal if the bug just got fixed... someday. :(

  • KoganKogan
    edited March 2017
    Aegoth said:
    I mean.. I'll change my aliases if everyone else does. I'm not gonna put myself at a knowing disadvantage, that'd be absurd, and I wouldn't expect anyone else to do the same. Right now, that's how things are, and you gotta live with it until it's fixed. I'm not even using the obvious cheese shit (panpipes/destab)... I'm using the same combo's I'd use out of ret. Everyone has the same advantage if you use queuing. 
    Oh I completely agree. Its more the cheese stuff I was referring to being bug abuse in my book. It's one of those things with standard aliases where one person does it so you have to so you can even be competitive with them. Since many people do it you would just not be competitive at all if you didn't. In a perfect world everyone who realizes it's a bug would just not do it and it wouldn't be a thing. I just don't understand the thrill of beating someone while knowingly abusing bugs to the extent of the earlier log. I'm 99% sure Gero wins that spar outside of retardation with no cheese tactics revolving around bugs. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm quite sure I'm right. 

    Ryzeth said:
    Kogan said:
    I think there is a distinct difference in your aliases doing "what they do" when you happen to be in retardation and planning out all of your offense/aliases around bug abuse though.
    While you're not entirely wrong... Refusing to change them, whilst knowing full well they work that way in retardation, is the definition of bug abuse.
    Ryzeth said:
    Oh, not disagreeing with you. Just saying that trying to claim it isn't bug abuse is silly (which is what he seemed to be implying)
    I'm not sure how you got I was implying that, but its okay. I'll try to explain my perspective on it a bit more (which doesn't mean shit in the big schme of things anyways). There is a difference. Aegoth summed it up well. The difference is pretty simple in my mind... I should not have to code extra to avoid using a bug. Nobody is going to do that. However coding to abuse a bug is a totally different thing. Which is obviously what happened in that log.
  • NazihkNazihk
    With a bug like this I feel like the best thing to do is just to treat it like the bugged way is the intended way until the bug is fixed. 

    It is not reasonable to expect the entire game to write a secondary mode for their system to avoid using queuing in retardation. And if it isn't reasonable to expect everybody to do it, it isn't reasonable to expect anybody to do it.

    So basically everybody should just abuse it and not feel bad.
  • ValariaValaria
    Aegoth said:
    he thought he did. turns out the problem goes a looot deeper into the abyss

    you mean @Makarios? if he managed to found something on the abyss floor, he will be the lord of the Abyss.

    2015/01/12
Tecton, the Terraformer has bestowed His divine favour upon you. It will last for approximately 1 Achaean month.
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna be
    So... it should be fine for someone to ruin my time with a bug, just because I can then go forth and ruin someone else's experience with that same bug?

    Seems dickish to me, and I'd definitely advise against it until one of the admins comments on it.
    Huh. Neat.
  • OmorOmor
    Please delete ret. It's just annoying.
    Omor Ceberek - Targossas

    got gud
  • DochithaDochitha
    Retardation is probably one of the best invention. Deleting it will be a waste, it could be 'fixed' by allowing everyone to chain commands in ret, it's not a bug when it becomes 'intended'.
  • GeroGero
    This has sparked an interesting discussion, but either way thanks for all the tips from everyone, looks like I need to re-evaluate a few things.
  • BannBann
    @Gero - You could actually just not fight her in it. Eventually she'll either get tired of doing it and you running like a bitch(even though you aren't a bitch), or the fight will time out. I feel like @Farrah probably has the best solution. Curare like a motherfucker. Also, stupidity is hella strong vs aeon/ret'd targets.

  • KlendathuKlendathu Eye of the Storm
    Double amnesia pets in ret is just stoopid

    Tharos, the Announcer of Delos shouts, "It's near the end of the egghunt and I still haven't figured out how to pronounce Clean-dat-hoo."
  • FrederichFrederich
    @Klendathu

    She could have THREE amnesia pets in Ret.
  • OmorOmor
    edited March 2017
    Frederich said:
    @Klendathu

    She could have THREE amnesia pets in Ret.

    HELP PETS:
    6)  Amnesia - 400 Bound Credits (except: see GIFTS)

    Your pet will sometimes afflict your enemies in combat with amnesia.
    NOTE: you may only get amnesia OR custom attack message, but not both.

    More about attacks: no other attacks are allowed for any pets, at any price. Only amnesia is allowed as an attack for pets. Also you may only purchase two amnesia pets per character.

    Omor Ceberek - Targossas

    got gud
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