Quick Combat Questions

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  • KenwayKenway San Francisco
    Shirszae said:
    Now I wonder if I am the only artied(?) 2h that was looking forward to the spec from the moment of hearing the first sketchy details of the weaponmastery rework  :# 
    Anyone present in Anarchaea when the knight skills were first available for use can attest to how crazy hyped i was. Pretty sure i solo raided both targ and mhaldor cause bastardsword bleed was initially so fucking insane. I spent the whole weekend fully creating an offense and supporting stuff for it just so id be ready to go as soon as the changes dropped(of course all the messages changed in between testing and release -_-)

    - Limb Counter - Fracture Relapsing -
    "Honestly, I just love that it counts limbs." - Mizik Corten
  • Austere said:
    Morphing level 3 is the worst.  I've been without a third class for like 6 months now, just because I want to go something it is useful as, but I don't really know if I wanna be a runie.  

    Hands down the worst, awesome purchase ever.  
    Sentinel and Bard could benefit too.

  • AustereAustere Tennessee
    Kenway said:
    Shirszae said:
    Now I wonder if I am the only artied(?) 2h that was looking forward to the spec from the moment of hearing the first sketchy details of the weaponmastery rework  :# 
    Anyone present in Anarchaea when the knight skills were first available for use can attest to how crazy hyped i was. Pretty sure i solo raided both targ and mhaldor cause bastardsword bleed was initially so fucking insane. I spent the whole weekend fully creating an offense and supporting stuff for it just so id be ready to go as soon as the changes dropped(of course all the messages changed in between testing and release -_-)
    I remember fighting you, I think. .Mak wrecked me after I loldamaged you as a magi.  Hello, holos!
  • When I first started Achaea, all I had were aliases that did tekura combos and aliases for Kaido and telepathy. It was simple and it relied on me knowing what I was doing.

    As time passed, these aliases got small checks added, a parry tracker, a shield check, stand first, etc. Then they became keybindings where I hit 1 key and Borran does 9 to 10 instant checks, creates a combo that will bypass whatever defenses, find what limbs are not yet setup, avoid shield, avoid parrying, paralysis check, stand.. there is so much going on,  and now classes are getting separate balances and added effects... Does anyone else feel like it's getting too complicated? I wish I could go back to when the most complicated thing was the fact that I could not punch before I kicked in a combo.

  • The skill ceiling is quite high.

    This is a good thing.
  • You would also have to uninvent screen scraping somehow

  • edited June 2016
    Skill ceiling was fun. Script ceiling, not so much. 

    I know many scriptors are programmers, but that's not really hope I like to spend my time. But the alternative is turning Borran into a flower-picking pacifist. Love combat, hate scripting.

    To solve this, I scoured the forums and the Internet to scavenge other people's scripts (and got some from benevolent friends). Which was working.. until I found that people's offenses now are automated to find the best affliction per balance. Tried using AK to build my offenses and messed up something, causing a client crash, so I had to start over.  So I'm back to square 1 and thinking maybe I just don't want to. 

  • Amranu said:
    The skill ceiling is quite high.

    This is a good thing.
    Depends on how you define skill. I'd refer to what Borran's talking about more a coding creep. I don't think the general skill level/knowledge of combatants has gone up. If anything I think the top tiers of today are (arguably) worse than the top tiers of 5-10 years ago. 
  • AustereAustere Tennessee
    Borran said:
    Skill ceiling was fun. Script ceiling, not so much. 

    I know many scriptors are programmers, but that's not really hope I like to spend my time. But the alternative is turning Borran into a flower-picking pacifist. Love combat, hate scripting.

    To solve this, I scoured the forums and the Internet to scavenge other people's scripts (and got some from benevolent friends). Which was working.. until I found that people's offenses now are automated to find the best affliction per balance. Tried using AK to build my offenses and messed up something, causing a client crash, so I had to start over.  So I'm back to square 1 and thinking maybe I just don't want to. 
    I'm not a programmer. I don't really tell most people what I do for a living, but I assure you it has very little computer time involved.  

    Automated offense is not required in the least.  Ak has benefits, but at the same time it has draw backs. Once you code something 100%, it's hard to add flexibility to it.  Don't let people coding offenses detract from your experience or deter you from having fun.  I've saw a -lot- of offenses over the years.  Trust me, most of them suck. 

    If you need help getting ak setup or you're having issues, just ask.  I don't enjoy hand holding, but I don't care a bit too help, particularly if you're doing something I've never done! 
  • edited June 2016
    Question on the level 3 bastard sword of a thousand truths.

    Am I going to see a large difference over the level two? Or is it marginal.

  • You can always ask Tecton/Nicola/Merkurriaohs to test it out before you buy it!


  • @Kalithea
    If you want to test the artefact prior to purchase, shoot a message or email to Makarios and he will hook you up.
  • Nicola said:
    @Kalithea
    If you want to test the artefact prior to purchase, shoot a message or email to Makarios and he will hook you up.
    Excellent customer service! I will do that

  • Jovolo said:
    Amranu said:
    The skill ceiling is quite high.

    This is a good thing.
    Depends on how you define skill. I'd refer to what Borran's talking about more a coding creep. I don't think the general skill level/knowledge of combatants has gone up. If anything I think the top tiers of today are (arguably) worse than the top tiers of 5-10 years ago. 
    Depends where your drawing the line for top tier.

    Several people who I consider top tier were successful back then too. 

    Personally, I feel like I would have much more success if we rewound to 5 years ago versus right now. 

    I compare it to the old conversation in the NBA Era v era. Sure the 'top' guys equal out but that mid tier is far and away better than its ever been. Regardless of how they're doing it, that's a good thing as we have more opportunities for substantial PK that isn't just rolling some scrub hard enough that they have no idea what even happened.




    Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
  • edited June 2016
    Borran said:
    Skill ceiling was fun. Script ceiling, not so much. 

    I know many scriptors are programmers, but that's not really hope I like to spend my time. But the alternative is turning Borran into a flower-picking pacifist. Love combat, hate scripting.

    To solve this, I scoured the forums and the Internet to scavenge other people's scripts (and got some from benevolent friends). Which was working.. until I found that people's offenses now are automated to find the best affliction per balance. Tried using AK to build my offenses and messed up something, causing a client crash, so I had to start over.  So I'm back to square 1 and thinking maybe I just don't want to. 
    To be fair, I'm newish so I'm going to weigh in

    I program by hobby so it's let me dive into lua pretty easily (seeing as I've wrote scripts for other games on it) -- I have AK and SVO and very likely could write a fully automated robot, but won't.

    Why?

    I don't think it's required. By and large the biggest help for me so far has been to make triggers to change colours/text size/boxes to let me know what the hell is going on, as text sails by at a breakneck speed even with small font on a 1080p screen. (Although it kinda looks like a scene from a hacker movie so that's p cool.)

    other than that I would not want to give up the flexibility of being able to decide what I'm going to do or change with different circumstances.

    The thing with automation is, unless you write an AI algorithm the same thing is going to happen each time, so once someone sees it you are predictable anyway.

    I just ended up making a series of 3 letter aliases and CTRL-F CTRL-R etc macros to fire the things I want.

    I am not good by any means but I've gotten a few kills now and some arena wins. Definitely don't feel hopeless.

    Plus I think it just boils down to intimate knowledge of the game. I am sure a Jhui would whip me even if I put him on a vanilla mudlet install.



  • edited June 2016
    Atalkez said:
    Next level PK: Meet me on Nexus bro
    telnet achaea.com 23



  • AustereAustere Tennessee
    Atalkez said:
    Next level PK: Meet me on Nexus bro
    We should totally have blank system duels just to see what happens.  I'm game.  No aliases, only full type. 
  • while someone gets to do

    dsl finkle right leg curare

    I'll get to type the next great achaean novel going

    instill target with clumsiness;command bloodleech at target

    I want some short hand too =(

  • AustereAustere Tennessee
    Finkle said:
    while someone gets to do

    dsl finkle right leg curare

    I'll get to type the next great achaean novel going

    instill target with clumsiness;command bloodleech at target

    I want some short hand too =(

    I'd be willing to go manual curing only a well! I feel like vs an aff class you'd have to
  • KenwayKenway San Francisco
    Borran said:
    Skill ceiling was fun. Script ceiling, not so much. 

    I know many scriptors are programmers, but that's not really hope I like to spend my time. But the alternative is turning Borran into a flower-picking pacifist. Love combat, hate scripting.

    To solve this, I scoured the forums and the Internet to scavenge other people's scripts (and got some from benevolent friends). Which was working.. until I found that people's offenses now are automated to find the best affliction per balance. Tried using AK to build my offenses and messed up something, causing a client crash, so I had to start over.  So I'm back to square 1 and thinking maybe I just don't want to. 
    To a certain extent, i totally get what youre saying. The moment for me when this best expressed itself was when self torso tracking started to become common place amongst fighters. This was before knight changes. At the time, disembowel just flat out wasnt designed with that in mind and so it pretty much made anyone with an auto-apply and half a brain invulnerable to runie. Now adays that is notably not the case. SnB can secure torso regardless of self-tracking, 2h doesnt need it, DwC can disrupt tumble, DwB doesnt give a fuck.

    A lot of the issue is that i think were still in a transitional period for combat as a whole. I used to be -really- good because my offense was great but now im not on the same level because now lots of people have great offenses due to scripting. The 'skill cap' really seems to be shifting towards defense rathet than offense. Familiarity with the opponents class rather than your own.

    As to the whole auto-affliction thing, i know for a fact that all the people who are real threats with it are people who manual their afflictions and just use the tracking to help them rather than their system. I personally feel like the -fun- part of combat is watching the cures closely and tracking what they have in your head but thats really hard for some people and i understand just wanting to play the damn game rather than practice endlessly till you can tell the difference between two afflicion cures by the split second difference in their next cure action. And honestly, id rather have those extra people to fight that we get from scripted offenses than i would a bunch of old school purists.

    I think at the moment the glaring issue in the combat scene is not scripting or anything player driven but rather the trend thats going on of things being built around fleeing. Generally, when im fighting, i want to fight that person. When i die and go huh what am i supposed to do there how do i cure against that and the genuine answer is "run away" thats just annoying. I dont know of a single person who enjoys this mechanic be it with alchemist 2h occie priest whatever. I think serpent is a good example of how this -does- work well where leaving the room on a snap can save your life but that allows you to go right back to fighting, thats a strategic movement rather than just ceasing the fight for several seconds because thats the "cure". Its annoying to fight against because it feels futile and its frustrating to fight -as- for the very same reason. This too, i think is partly a symptom of the transition of combat to account for 'perfect' offenses being more common place but i think it needs some urgent attention because ive seen a few newer players disappear because of it and a lot of older players take extended breaks from fighting because its so frustratingly countered to what we actually enjoy as fighters.

    - Limb Counter - Fracture Relapsing -
    "Honestly, I just love that it counts limbs." - Mizik Corten
  • 1. I have no idea how bards can possibly be expected to track shield, rebounding, deafness, bal, voice bal, next venom, next voice, last cured aff, and make all the right choices in <1.4sec without letting the client track at least half of it.

    2. I think the issue with running is that it's easy to use it as a substitute when you don't know the right course of action. I have no idea how to hinder a momentum class... run a sec and come back when you can catch your breath. Then go back and try again. 

    3. Not an important point, but wanted to but it in anyways.  As a serpent, I hate when people automatically run on snap. I have to illusion snapping and custom emote snaps to throw them off and hope they get tired of all the false alarms long enough to lock.

  • My morphing weapon was 3300-3400 credits. Pre-multiclass it was definitely not worth it (even after Tecton graciously allowed it to become spiked knuckles). Post multiclass it is 100% worth it and I would expect the next auctioned one to go for 5k or more. Austere was able to get his for about ~1600 credits (11m gold, at the time). In today's gold prices he paid about 1230 credits.

    It has its drawbacks in classes that can fluidly use two weapons (2h, serpent, dwb) but it is extremely nice to be able to be level 3 artefacted in any class that uses a single weapon (2h, s&b, bard, monk, priest, serpent, jester sort of but not really, sentinel). It has a hefty balance time, so if I'm bashing in serpent and it's a lash, I have to wait 5 seconds of balance to make it a Thoth's fang.

  • KenwayKenway San Francisco
    Borran said:
    1. I have no idea how bards can possibly be expected to track shield, rebounding, deafness, bal, voice bal, next venom, next voice, last cured aff, and make all the right choices in <1.4sec without letting the client track at least half of it.

    2. I think the issue with running is that it's easy to use it as a substitute when you don't know the right course of action. I have no idea how to hinder a momentum class... run a sec and come back when you can catch your breath. Then go back and try again. 

    3. Not an important point, but wanted to but it in anyways.  As a serpent, I hate when people automatically run on snap. I have to illusion snapping and custom emote snaps to throw them off and hope they get tired of all the false alarms long enough to lock.
    Well as for bard wbat i do is just pair up my venoms and voice and queue both. My raze alias sings cantata if i have voice balance and razes if i dont (both have gmcp support) deafness is as easy as jabbing pesante and seeing which line it returns/seeing if your songs are working or not. 

    Serpent running trigger:
    Kelp stack for sensitivity, pinshot, give em darkshade and paralysis, snap, start sniping em with curare. As long as youre on a straight away i think youd kill most average health people. I never experienced serp with an artie bow tho so could be wrong there but thats how i won my alts midbie fights at least.

    - Limb Counter - Fracture Relapsing -
    "Honestly, I just love that it counts limbs." - Mizik Corten
  • AerekAerek East Tennessee, USA
    @Dunn Thankfully, Mak fixed the unartied DWC issue a while back, I haven't had or seen any issues with Disemboweling since then, so now it's just a cost issue, yeah.

    Not to say that L2/L3 Scims aren't good, or that L3 axes wouldn't hurt, but I tend to measure artefacts by what capabilities they allow me that I didn't have before. It's why all the things I own are "utilities" like chitin greaves, ring of flying, lorewarden shard/insignia, and the aldar diadem instead of weapons or tanking arties, those things let me do things that I could not do before, where with most weapons you're just paying to get slightly better at what you could already do.

    Like DWB flail artefacts are still worth buying despite their obvious disparity in cost, I think, because they raise the health threshold that you can effectively mangle-lock. It's right around 4500 unartefacted, but with flails you can push that number upward and mangle tougher and tougher opponents. That's neat. But scimitars don't let you do anything "new" at any level, they just give you a smidgen more damage and speed at each stage. It's noticeable, but it's not enough to be game-changing at any point, so $900 is a pretty outlandish cost for such a small boost in effectiveness.
    -- Grounded in but one perspective, what we perceive is an exaggeration of the truth.
  • AustereAustere Tennessee
    Cooper said:
    My morphing weapon was 3300-3400 credits. Pre-multiclass it was definitely not worth it (even after Tecton graciously allowed it to become spiked knuckles). Post multiclass it is 100% worth it and I would expect the next auctioned one to go for 5k or more. Austere was able to get his for about ~1600 credits (11m gold, at the time). In today's gold prices he paid about 1230 credits.

    It has its drawbacks in classes that can fluidly use two weapons (2h, serpent, dwb) but it is extremely nice to be able to be level 3 artefacted in any class that uses a single weapon (2h, s&b, bard, monk, priest, serpent, jester sort of but not really, sentinel). It has a hefty balance time, so if I'm bashing in serpent and it's a lash, I have to wait 5 seconds of balance to make it a Thoth's fang.
    I think mine was closer to 1800 credits at the time.  Credit market dumped out during the auction just because so much stuff was going for gold.  Either way, I stole the weapon, there is no denying that. 

    Buy a level 2 dirk.  I kept mine just so I could hunt serpent and still be 99% effective if someone starts stuff.  My only issue is rotation of the weapon types gets hung up sometimes if I start attacking too fast (g lash from pack, put crummydirk in pack gets eaten)

    Regardless, it's still a curse. No way you'd go shaman, sylvan, magi,  druid, alchy, or abostate and not sometimes still regret it(Still love mine)
  • edited June 2016
    Quick questions, huh? How do I beat DWC Infernal? Got vivi'd before my leg prep.... and no other preps. D: One of the fastest losses of my life, probably second only to sparring @Mindshellwhen he was DWB.

    Edit: tried to remove weird semicolon, doesn't exist in editor. May be crazy.
    Omor Ceberek - Targossas

    got gud
  • RESTORE


  • edited June 2016
    As truthful as that is, it didn't help. Long and the short of it, he prepped my limbs with curare and arconite/xentino, then broke my insomnia/sent me to sleep, and that was it. All within the time it took for me to prep his legs. So.. about 5-6 combos from me.
    Omor Ceberek - Targossas

    got gud
  • Leg arm or triple break? Did you restore after two breaks? Did he break another limb after you restored? 


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