In point of fact, you really don't see them. Dunn, Exxia, and Wessux are the only artied dual-cutters I know of out there, (and Wessux only has L1s) and Antonius and Kellonius are the only artied dual-blunters I know of that still use that style with any regularity.
Meanwhile, artied S&B and 2H knights are pretty much dime-a-dozen.
-- Grounded in but one perspective, what we perceive is an exaggeration of the truth.
there are a lot of poor pricing schemes for arties, like the sip rings/bracelets where it goes 10/20/30 (or 5/10/15 for bracelets) and you're paying 2x to get just a 50% increase instead of it doubling. it's just way more noticable with the dwc/dwb discrepancy. #fixartefactpricing
I also only have level 1s, for the record. I dunno how many issues you've been having recently, @Aerek, but I recall you having mechanical issues even getting a DSB with non artie scims. That presented a 700 credit paywall just to use the simplest finisher. That's nuts. There's definitely a skew between DWC and the other specs as far as artie cost versus effectiveness goes. I haven't had any mechanical issues with unartied DWB, but the cost is still nuts.
SNB/2h are just made better by Artie weapons. I also never had an issue with these specs sans Arties. DWC is my main spec, but my insignia is frequently used and the disparities are pretty apparent after a bit of play on all of the specs.
In point of fact, you really don't see them. Dunn, Exxia, and Wessux are the only artied dual-cutters I know of out there, (and Wessux only has L1s) and Antonius and Kellonius are the only artied dual-blunters I know of that still use that style with any regularity.
Meanwhile, artied S&B and 2H knights are pretty much dime-a-dozen.
I have level 2's, but I'm not really much to take note of.
Definitely won't be paying for level 3's though. Not a chance.
He is a coward who has to bring two friends as backup to jump people hunting.
there are a lot of poor pricing schemes for arties, like the sip rings/bracelets where it goes 10/20/30 (or 5/10/15 for bracelets) and you're paying 2x to get just a 50% increase instead of it doubling. it's just way more noticable with the dwc/dwb discrepancy. #fixartefactpricing
I understand fixing the dwc/dwb pricing fix, but the way arties' (like sip rings/bracelets) prices scale is fine.
In point of fact, you really don't see them. Dunn, Exxia, and Wessux are the only artied dual-cutters I know of out there, (and Wessux only has L1s) and Antonius and Kellonius are the only artied dual-blunters I know of that still use that style with any regularity.
Meanwhile, artied S&B and 2H knights are pretty much dime-a-dozen.
Xaden and Anedhel are both artied dual cutting Knights (I think they both have level twos, but I may be wrong). I believe Ainly had level one artefact flails when he was dual blunt, but I'm not sure he's even still a Knight class. As far as I know Cooper has a single level three morphing weapon, so last time I saw him he was using an odd mix of level three and forged flails. I don't know what Proficy is using as dual blunt right now, he may just be using forged.
I actually see a higher percentage of artied dual cutting and dual blunt Knights than I do two-handed or sword and shield ones, but I suspect that's either because people generally avoid playing those specs if they don't have the ability to buy artefact weapons or because two-handed and sword and shield are viewed as the superior options (even though a lot of the time they're not) with or without artefacts.
The mechanical issues with DWC and disembowel should have been resolved, but I can't speak on whether they actually have. There's a grace period between a restoration application curing a damaged leg and a subsequent impale where you'll still get the bonus to writhe time if the other leg is damaged, to account for the situations where balance time is calculated as a bit longer than it should generally be.
For what it's worth, I'm artied as every spec, though I tend to prefer dual blunt as Paladin and dual cutting as Runewarden right now (even if they made my level three battleaxe useless). If the level two insignia wasn't absolute garbage I'd be more inclined to switch around more often, but it's not worth buying and the 24 hour cooldown option doesn't work that well with my play times and having two Knight classes.
Being honest, I went 2H strictly because of the artie investment cost.
I enjoy the hell out of it, but the pay gate kind of pushed me away from a DWC consideration. I don't understand why they aren't either half cost, or why the artefact rapier/scim/whatever it is in your hand doesn't just lend its stats to the non artefact thing in your other hand.
Being honest, I went 2H strictly because of the artie investment cost.
I enjoy the hell out of it, but the pay gate kind of pushed me away from a DWC consideration. I don't understand why they aren't either half cost, or why the artefact rapier/scim/whatever it is in your hand doesn't just lend its stats to the non artefact thing in your other hand.
Either way, was too expensive for me
It is stupidly expensive alright. Frustratingly so. I never bought the arte' battleaxes, thankfully, but pouring 1600 credits into level twos hurts.
He is a coward who has to bring two friends as backup to jump people hunting.
Jumping on the '2-handed because of cost' bandwagon. It doesn't seem like I need (or really benefit much from?) an artifact warhammer when I already have a level 3 bastard sword, as compared to DWC/DWB where you need two of the same weapon to really benefit. Even then it's a different scenario since I'd be comparing the investment of both weapons of a specialization - the thought of spending 6400 credits on level 3 scimitars/battleaxes seems insane compared to bastard/warhammer.
It just seems strange that there's such an artificially large price gap between the specs - I know it goes back to pre-Weaponmastery, but it's a little ridiculous to have two specs cost up to twice as much as the others. I like 2H just fine so far, but I would have been much more tempted to try DWC/DWB if there were similar investments I could plan out.
Now I wonder if I am the only artied(?) 2h that was looking forward to the spec from the moment of hearing the first sketchy details of the weaponmastery rework
And you won't understand the cause of your grief...
Jumping on the '2-handed because of cost' bandwagon. It doesn't seem like I need (or really benefit much from?) an artifact warhammer when I already have a level 3 bastard sword, as compared to DWC/DWB where you need two of the same weapon to really benefit. Even then it's a different scenario since I'd be comparing the investment of both weapons of a specialization - the thought of spending 6400 credits on level 3 scimitars/battleaxes seems insane compared to bastard/warhammer.
It just seems strange that there's such an artificially large price gap between the specs - I know it goes back to pre-Weaponmastery, but it's a little ridiculous to have two specs cost up to twice as much as the others. I like 2H just fine so far, but I would have been much more tempted to try DWC/DWB if there were similar investments I could plan out.
To be honest, artefact battleaxes are almost entirely pointless right now, and having two generally wasn't worth it - maybe they're worth a bit more if you're Runewarden since you have nothing to pair with arc - before either. The recent change to Razeslash was great for maintaining momentum with scimitars but completely removed the relevance of battleaxes from DWC (in my opinion). If you were thinking of buying both a bastard sword and warhammer for two-handed, you could get pretty much full efficiency from DWC by buying just two level three scimitars and foregoing (artefact) battleaxes completely.
Dual blunt is still insane, though, since morningstars and flails do both actually have a use. It's definitely the spec that's done the best job of making both weapon types relevant, I think, which is unfortunate since it's the most expensive by a large margin.
Level 2's in DWC are more than strong enough. I prefer the offence of DWC with two L2's over L3 Longsword/SoA in SnB, so I feel like the 1600cr investment is fine for DWC.
I have L3's right now, and it's mostly because I wanted to be a bit over-the-top (and boy, is DWC with level 3's nuts).
From anecdotal experience, I can say that it's basically split down the middle, the knights I've seen -fighting-, in terms of spec. I haven't fought a 2her in a very long time (last one I seriously dueled was Jarrel, I think, and that was like four RL months ago).
Tbh, I think there just aren't as many knights who pvp as we seem to think there are
I know I'm always surprised by how few I can remember fighting recently.
From what I've seen there are plenty of Knights in Hashan, Eleusis, Mhaldor and Targossas that participate in raids, though a lot fewer who do a lot of 1v1 or group combat outside of raids. I've also noticed some not entirely surprising trends: most notably, Mhaldor and Targossas (i.e. the cities with access to the factional Knight classes) tend to have the best coverage of different specialisations.
Oddly all of Hashan's Knights seem to be two-handed - maybe that's just due to having the resources available for learning the spec. I can't recall seeing any of them using any of the other three specs.
Mhaldor has a varied mix of two-handed, dual blunt and dual cutting, but there's also what appears to be a split along class lines: Runewardens tend to be two-handed, Infernals are dual blunt or dual cutting. I'm not sure I can think of a single sword and shield Knight in Mhaldor right now.
Targossas has very few two-handed Knights from what I've seen (Daeir might be the only one). Most of the newer ones are sword and shield or dual cutting. I'm the only active (in my timezone) Knight in Targossas who uses dual blunt even some of the time, as far as I know.
Eleusis has either two-handed or sword and shield. I've not personally seen any dual blunt or dual cutting.
There are knights everywhere. More knights than anything else. Everyone seems to be one.
Exelethril, me, Atalkez, Proficy, Dunn, Jhui (usually monk but sometimes runie), Antonius, Naliah, Exxia... I can't even list all the PvP knights I'm regularly in combat with, and that's pretty much entirely excluding Cyrene too.
How much damage is a torso break disembowel with 20 strength supposed to do nowadays? I've tried with 2 different people and it's dealt 84% damage every time I tested it on them. Is that correct? I thought it was supposed to be higher.
My old testing says ~94% before other factors, but there's no guarantee those numbers are still correct. I might look into testing those again, including adding in the effect of the torso disembowel increase for Runewarden when I get some time.
Who were you testing on and what class are they? What class are you? There are quite a lot of purely percentage-based resistances that will drop the damage of disembowel, though if you're Runewarden you'll also have that increase making up some of the difference.
Making the Morphing addon commercially available could cut back on cost for those classes/multiclasses that use level 3 arties to be viable. This 1600cr per artefact has been my #1 determining factor for my multiclass choices because when you are not a specific class/specialisation, that artefact does nothing for you. And buying 4-8 1600cr artefacts is not affordable by any means. You would still need 2 1600cr artefacts with the Morphing addon if you wanted dwc or dwb, but changing between them would cost considerably less.
@Cooper Since you are the only one I know with a morphing weapon, how much did that cost you? Do you think it was a good investment?
Morphing level 3 is the worst. I've been without a third class for like 6 months now, just because I want to go something it is useful as, but I don't really know if I wanna be a runie.
There are knights everywhere. More knights than anything else. Everyone seems to be one.
Exelethril, me, Atalkez, Proficy, Dunn, Jhui (usually monk but sometimes runie), Antonius, Naliah, Exxia... I can't even list all the PvP knights I'm regularly in combat with, and that's pretty much entirely excluding Cyrene too.
Comments
Idk it makes economic sense to me too.
[ SnB PvP Guide | Link ]
Meanwhile, artied S&B and 2H knights are pretty much dime-a-dozen.
SNB/2h are just made better by Artie weapons. I also never had an issue with these specs sans Arties. DWC is my main spec, but my insignia is frequently used and the disparities are pretty apparent after a bit of play on all of the specs.
Definitely won't be paying for level 3's though. Not a chance.
I actually see a higher percentage of artied dual cutting and dual blunt Knights than I do two-handed or sword and shield ones, but I suspect that's either because people generally avoid playing those specs if they don't have the ability to buy artefact weapons or because two-handed and sword and shield are viewed as the superior options (even though a lot of the time they're not) with or without artefacts.
The mechanical issues with DWC and disembowel should have been resolved, but I can't speak on whether they actually have. There's a grace period between a restoration application curing a damaged leg and a subsequent impale where you'll still get the bonus to writhe time if the other leg is damaged, to account for the situations where balance time is calculated as a bit longer than it should generally be.
For what it's worth, I'm artied as every spec, though I tend to prefer dual blunt as Paladin and dual cutting as Runewarden right now (even if they made my level three battleaxe useless). If the level two insignia wasn't absolute garbage I'd be more inclined to switch around more often, but it's not worth buying and the 24 hour cooldown option doesn't work that well with my play times and having two Knight classes.
Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files
I enjoy the hell out of it, but the pay gate kind of pushed me away from a DWC consideration. I don't understand why they aren't either half cost, or why the artefact rapier/scim/whatever it is in your hand doesn't just lend its stats to the non artefact thing in your other hand.
Either way, was too expensive for me
It just seems strange that there's such an artificially large price gap between the specs - I know it goes back to pre-Weaponmastery, but it's a little ridiculous to have two specs cost up to twice as much as the others. I like 2H just fine so far, but I would have been much more tempted to try DWC/DWB if there were similar investments I could plan out.
And you won't understand the cause of your grief...
...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.
Dual blunt is still insane, though, since morningstars and flails do both actually have a use. It's definitely the spec that's done the best job of making both weapon types relevant, I think, which is unfortunate since it's the most expensive by a large margin.
Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files
I have L3's right now, and it's mostly because I wanted to be a bit over-the-top (and boy, is DWC with level 3's nuts).
From anecdotal experience, I can say that it's basically split down the middle, the knights I've seen -fighting-, in terms of spec. I haven't fought a 2her in a very long time (last one I seriously dueled was Jarrel, I think, and that was like four RL months ago).
Tbh, I think there just aren't as many knights who pvp as we seem to think there are
I know I'm always surprised by how few I can remember fighting recently.
Oddly all of Hashan's Knights seem to be two-handed - maybe that's just due to having the resources available for learning the spec. I can't recall seeing any of them using any of the other three specs.
Mhaldor has a varied mix of two-handed, dual blunt and dual cutting, but there's also what appears to be a split along class lines: Runewardens tend to be two-handed, Infernals are dual blunt or dual cutting. I'm not sure I can think of a single sword and shield Knight in Mhaldor right now.
Targossas has very few two-handed Knights from what I've seen (Daeir might be the only one). Most of the newer ones are sword and shield or dual cutting. I'm the only active (in my timezone) Knight in Targossas who uses dual blunt even some of the time, as far as I know.
Eleusis has either two-handed or sword and shield. I've not personally seen any dual blunt or dual cutting.
Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files
Exelethril, me, Atalkez, Proficy, Dunn, Jhui (usually monk but sometimes runie), Antonius, Naliah, Exxia... I can't even list all the PvP knights I'm regularly in combat with, and that's pretty much entirely excluding Cyrene too.
Algiz, scales, or favourshield on the person you tested on, by any chance?
Who were you testing on and what class are they? What class are you? There are quite a lot of purely percentage-based resistances that will drop the damage of disembowel, though if you're Runewarden you'll also have that increase making up some of the difference.
Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files
Think Vivi, but with tattoos. Pretty metal.
@Cooper Since you are the only one I know with a morphing weapon, how much did that cost you? Do you think it was a good investment?
Hands down the worst, awesome purchase ever.
- Limb Counter - Fracture Relapsing -
"Honestly, I just love that it counts limbs." - Mizik Corten