Sartan vs Eleusis

Iniar

Can't imagine being in the position of the volunteer.

Kiet

Ognog said:

No doubt there is more going on between Mhaldor, Sartan and Eleusis than I see, but news of Lord Sartan personally slaying Eleusis' defense parties and nobbling the combat abilities of an Eleusis leader isn't a particularly good look, especially when Eleusis doesn't have an active God to operate at that level. Just because Mhaldor has an active God on it's side shouldn't mean Mhaldor becomes invincible while their enemies are brought to their knees.

Is making uninformed accusations a personal hobby of yours, or something you're dabbling in?

Rangor

Problem here is that disfavor disable you from playing the game. Disfavor needs to be reworked. Shutting down someone's skills is an appropriate response to greifing, not shouting at a God. Incineration and other nasty effects would be appropriate for that.

Rangor

Asmodron said:

Just so everything is clear here.

The majority of complaints brought up are about TDFs in  general and how stunting they make gameplay, rather than the individual in question being punished, yes?

For the first, I can agree TDFs are just a bad form of punishment, however a more 'developed' or 'designed' punishment, such as those historical ones we have seen in the past, requires quite some time to make. We are basically asking of the admin behind Sartan to take some time out to develop some interesting curse or what-not that would properly define the punishment and exhibit the wrath of Sartan. We cant even be sure he has the time to take out to do that.


I do still agree about TDFs and what they do to gameplay.

Or he could give a normal df and zap coamenel and nuke his room.

Ognog

Kiet said: Is making uninformed accusations a personal hobby of yours, or something you're dabbling in?

I only dabble. @Kiet and @Reyson are the real experts.

Reyson

So, the people who clarified the situation (who had a first-hand view of how things went down) are all lying, or wrong?

Coamenel

I'm not particularly interested in a (hostile) wrong/right discussion with you, but I would like to point out that the perspectives of both factions are different. E.g. You and Kiet claim there was no Eleusian defense party, multiple Eleusians say there was. So your opinion may actually be something others don't agree to. 

Saeva

That slaughter by Sartan definitely happened while we were NOT engaged with them. We wanted to be. But they had been ignoring us for what... 30 minutes or more? Nah. That's not a defense party, sorry.

Reyson

So when people say there was not an actual fight going on at that moment, and Mhaldor had not engaged yet, they are incorrect? Not in the spirit of hostility, but in the interest of clarity- when Sartan slew people, did it swing the outcome of a fight? 

Coamenel

Reyson said:

So when people say there was not an actual fight going on at that moment, and Mhaldor had not engaged yet, they are incorrect? Not in the spirit of hostility, but in the interest of clarity- when Sartan slew people, did it swing the outcome of a fight? 

No, not an ongoing fight. Mind you I wasn't there. But you can probably imagine that morale, already a fragile thing in Eleusis, got drilled right into the ground when the party got destroyed by an immortal. Thus, likely unintended, influencing any spirit for a fight after that had happened. 

And no, you weren't engaged and had to wait 30 minutes before a party was even formed. That's what you get if you decide to raid a city with mainly non-coms in it I guess. But when the non-coms finally form a party after 30 mins of being under attack, that is in fact still a defense party. 

I just wanted to make clear though, that some people do not share your view. I've noticed that a lot off you have in fact got very strong opinions on everything, and can almost never be wrong about anything too. That's actually not a bad thing per se, if it weren't for the fact that discussions in the Achaean community are often hostile and filled with hatred. Even when Fred kinda agrees with me, he can't resist to call me 'fucking dumb' and 'lolz inducing at best'. It is why I, and others, are already gone from the achaea discord. It is why I am considering not getting myself involved in the forums anymore. Hell, if I wouldn't have had invested probably over 2000€ in Coa, I may even have pulled the plug on it alltogether. Not the producers, not the volunteers, not any off the complaints that you can find on these boards, but the attitude in the Achaea community is having issues. I'm also not saying that because of myself, I'm pretty sure achaea will be just fine without. It's the fact that I'm most likely not the only one feeling this way, it's a genuine threat to the game imho. 

Anaria

I have a low opinion of the God situation, given the long term absence of so many critically important Divines and the way it seems to go unaddressed for RL years. 

You should really appreciate Lord Sartan ooc'ly. He is one the very few who is doing his job, and that volunteer arguably has one of the hardest Divine roles. The game is very lucky to have a villain in the form of a dark God and an actively antagonistic city for the rest of the world to (theoretically) rally and fight against. Mhaldor is a universal enemy, and they serve a very important purpose in that they keep Achaea from growing too peaceful and too stale. I feel this is one of the very few areas of the Achaea setting that is functioning perfectly right now.

That being said, I do sympathize a little bit with Eleusis only in one regard. Its rough to be in a conflict where the other side has a super heavy weight in their corner, who isn't afraid to throw his weight around, when your side has nothing to match it. It's not your fault (or Lord Sartan's) but I do think its a tad unfair.

Reyson

I think maybe you're reading a bit too much into the antagonism. My disagreeing with you is about facts, and not every disagreement is a personal attack. As a matter of fact, I've always enjoyed  fighting you, and while some people are rude just for the sake of making an impression, I can't recall  instance where I was out of line with you, IC or OOC.

If your objection to Sartan's action is that gods shouldn't get involved in world affairs in a way that threatens players IC, fine. If you think gods shouldn't touch a losing side, fine. 

The way you phrased it, however, makes it sound like Sartan actually raided eleusis or something. Like he cleared the way for us to blow up a room or whatever. That's patently false, and while I get your frustrations with achaea at the moment, I'd be remiss if I didn't try and point out what is plain misrepresentation. 

If OOC avenues are ruining the game for you, by all means don't partake. Many people who've stopped using them have said it's been good for their enjoyment of the game! And in the end, games are meant to be fun. I do think it'd be good, however, not to take every disagreement as a personal attack. People (even on the internet) can like you and still think you're wrong. 

Saeva

I didn't say we were waiting for you to form up for 30 minutes, expecting a fight. We wanted a fight but we knew we weren't getting it so we were doing our thing exterminating without you. There was no ongoing or pending fight. There was no expectation. There was no action, for a long time. That was between you all and Sartan alone, not the Mdor players.

Also, poor Eleusis and their no God morale. It's like you had two of the most gracious and involved gods ever (Gaia!?!? Artemis!? Why was Artemis so nice to you anyway, you are all so uninterested in divine direction and help. You just want hand outs and pats on the head) and you pushed them out the second they did something that didn't suit you. So boo hoo your morale. So hard  that one of them didn't sprout out of the ground and say "Now I will fix it for you!". Also if your divine slaughtered all of Mhaldor, almost nobody in our city would care. We all die for Sartykins on the regs, and it just legitimately doesn't crush our will to play. The chance to play with admin is rad, live or die. The super duper few we have, have been spicing things up to make things interesting.

i guess I don't know why I'm surprised you hate a divine interaction, when it's literally why you guys never keep a god.

Klendathu

I feel for the Eleusian players, it's not fun being on the losing side, but Mhaldor was the underdog for a while. Perhaps the people on the "winning" side should remember how it feels to be on the "losing" side, rather than using it as an excuse for their behaviour, and be a little less condescending and patronising.

Remember, there's people at their keyboards on both sides. Snarky shitty personal attacks are not necessary.

Taryius

It's just a death, yes the experience can be annoying if you are really grinding for it but its nothing you can't earn back quite quickly... But now you get to tell the tale of when Sartan nuked an entire group of eleusians.

You guys had sat upon your gatehouse for quite a long time (not saying thats a -bad- thing, if you don't want to defend don't defend, but that is a whole other can of worms). It's not like Sartan intervened in an active fight.

Cooper

Ignoring all of that, it was pretty funny for us to have had a formal talk with the Speaker of Eleusis last night and agree to a ceasefire pending him posting to his council about wanting to concede defeat, so they could work their shit out for a few days.

...and then login to Eleusis having raided us.

Mathilda

Having a Godmin smash Eleusis when they were already clearly done with the conflict at that moment isn't likely to endear Eleusis towards Godmins in general.

There is a fine line, and having a faction be decimated by exterminations and Divine action at the same time may have crossed that. 

Cooper

Mathilda said:

Having a Godmin smash Eleusis when they were already clearly done with the conflict at that moment isn't likely to endear Eleusis towards Godmins in general.

There is a fine line, and having a faction be decimated by exterminations and Divine action at the same time may have crossed that. 

Then Eleusis shouldn't do the thing that has historically lead to a God killing everyone in a city.

Siduri

Cooper said:

Ignoring all of that, it was pretty funny for us to have had a formal talk with the Speaker of Eleusis last night and agree to a ceasefire pending him posting to his council about wanting to concede defeat, so they could work their shit out for a few days.

...and then login to Eleusis having raided us.

That's because the head isn't connected to the hand in Eleusis' case. There are two possible solutions to that, but it's their job to sort it out. In the meantime, I'm all for letting them understand the consequences of that.

Jacen

I don't see any problem with Eleusis enemying Sartan if that's what we're talking about. Not only does it make sense from the RP side of things, but it seems like an incredibly petty thing for a god to get pissed off over. Heck, I think it makes a lot of sense for a city to enemy a god, especially cities like Hashan, Cyrene, and Ashtan, which might occasionally (and have historically) associate with gods outside of their faction. Gods are living roles in Achaea, it makes sense to keep a record of their transgressions against your city, if you otherwise might ask them to patron you at some point.

Aegoth

Cooper said:

Ignoring all of that, it was pretty funny for us to have had a formal talk with the Speaker of Eleusis last night and agree to a ceasefire pending him posting to his council about wanting to concede defeat, so they could work their shit out for a few days.

...and then login to Eleusis having raided us.

Yea, that's not gonna end well for them...

Valaria

i remember long time ago that Shallam has Sartan as patron at one point.. or maybe a church? it was funny.

Siduri

Cities enemy orders, not Gods.

Jacen

Daeir said:

Yeah, because Eleusis is totally going to ask Sartan to patron them.

You're absolutely right, it's asinine. Their purposes are just so diametrically opposed. One might even call them... Enemies.

Shirszae

Yeah, because saying,

"Hey, YOU, near-omnipotent glowing fire of death, YOU are not welcome here. So don't YOU dare come here or the guards will do short work of YOU!"

makes perfect sense. Yes, they are enemies for all intents and purposes. But treating a God like just another mortal -Should- be asking for trouble. You -can- do it, maybe,  just prepare your rear for it first.

Exelethril

Should you have an issue with the behaviour of the volunteers who devote many hours to improve Achaea, please email support, or Nicola or Makarios directly, rather than addressing them in a derogatory fashion in a public forum. Thank you!

Taryius

Things like this, when people complain over these small and temporary measure are why so many gods leave their roles and abandon Achaea... I mean the God of EVIL can't even smite a group of citizens at war with HIS city? Or punish the MORTAL that enemied him?

Don't leave us @Sartan. We love you! And the other half the world will learn to love you!

Zelisia

I honestly cannot fathom how weak we have become as a subset of society when an e-punishment for e-disrespect causes three pages of back and forth like this. Really sad. If you are offended over this, I can't imagine what the rest of your days are like. Good luck with real life, it is a helluva lot tougher.

Sobriquet

You seem to be saying only Evil Gods can do this. 

Shirszae

Exelethril said:

I've edited Exelethril's comment as it's not appropriate to speak poorly of our volunteers!