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Sartan vs Eleusis
So this just happened:
2017/06/02 07:49:42 - Coamenel declared Sartan to be a formal enemy. Reason: The Malevolent One has wiped clear an entire defense party, while forest rooms were being exterminated.After Sartan personally killing defensive parties, crusade groups and whatnot, I think Sartan is overstepping his game here. Eleusis is down on actual fighters, because of internal power struggles, and Sartan's actions have brought morale to an absolute minimum. I'm absolutely fine with RP consequences, burn the forests, destroy Eleusis time after time for not responding to Mhaldor terms. But actually disabling my offense in sentinel (no more truemorph, enrage, wolf pet, skullbash, impale, doublestrike, and extirpate to name a few) for FIVE RL days, I think he's crossed a line. I think the TDF is unreasonable, given for what was said, after we were provoked for the nth time. To my opinion, I was polite and respectful. The Achaea discord wasn't agreeing with me, but after being told to hang myself irl I don't take them very seriously anymore. I'm particularly curious to the opinions of @Makarios @Nicola on the matter.
5947h, 99%m, 100%e, 99%w +bdckm EX-
Thousands of daemons howl and shriek as Sartan, the Malevolent roars above the cacophony, "You wish Me as an enemy Eleusis? So be it. Your hubris will your undoing."
5947h, 99%m, 100%e, 99%w +bdckm EX-
7040h, 100%m, 100%e, 99%w +bdckm EX- (+45m, 0.6%)
Your voice rises, harried by a frosty mist as you shout, "My dear Sartan, with all do respect, You have killed many of us. How do you expect us not to enemy You?"
7040h, 99%m, 100%e, 99%w +bdckm EX- (-15m, 0.2%)
7030h, 95%m, 100%e, 98%w +bdckm EX- (-10h, 0.1%)
A male voice resonates with the clarity of Severian himself, "When you were but a little tot Coamenel and your mother told you to never disrespect a God no matter how much you disagreed with Them or else. Did you think she was lying to you?"
7040h, 91%m, 100%e, 98%w +bdckm EX- (+10h, 0.1%) (+45m, 0.6%)
6990h, 97%m, 100%e, 98%w +bdckm EX- (+908m, 12.9%)
You see Ahura Rangor Corten, Hierophant of Eleusis shout, "Since the early days of my life Evil has warred against Nature, Eleusis has always stood against your Legions and will continue to do so."
6990h, 98%m, 100%e, 98%w +bdckm EX- (+60m, 0.9%)
7020h, 91%m, 100%e, 98%w +bdckm EX- (-20h, 0.3%) (+75m, 1.1%)
Guardian Xaden Ashture, Song of the Lightbringer booms from near the heights of attainment, "I thought he was quite polite, Morthif. Not that you'd know much about manners."
7020h, 91%m, 100%e, 98%w +bdckm EX-
7030h, 91%m, 100%e, 98%w +bdckm EX- (+10h, 0.1%) (+45m, 0.6%)
A male voice resonates with the clarity of Severian himself, "Not sure what you are implying Xaden."
7040h, 86%m, 99%e, 98%w +bdckm EX-
7040h, 99%m, 100%e, 97%w +bdckm EX- (+19h, 0.3%) (-15m, 0.2%)
Guardian Xaden Ashture, Song of the Lightbringer booms from near the heights of attainment, "I'll add lacking in intellect to your list of deficiencies too, so."
7040h, 99%m, 100%e, 97%w +bdckm EX-
7020h, 92%m, 100%e, 97%w +bdckm EX- (-12h, 0.2%) (+75m, 1.1%)
Director Klendathu, Ixteolotl Teotl booms from near the heights of attainment, "Finally a topic on which you have first hand experience, Xaden."
7040h, 92%m, 100%e, 97%w +bdckm EX- (+20h, 0.3%) (-15m, 0.2%)
7020h, 87%m, 100%e, 96%w +bdckm EX- (-20h, 0.3%) (+75m, 1.1%)
Guardian Xaden Ashture, Song of the Lightbringer booms from near the heights of attainment, "Indeed, Klendathu, I've dealth with morons from Ashtan since I was but a tot."
7040h, 87%m, 99%e, 96%w +bdckm EX- (+20h, 0.3%) (-15m, 0.2%)
(PP)5060h, 99%m, 100%e, 97%w +bdckmHSV EX- godfeelings
You are:
True disfavoured by Sartan for under 5 Achaean months (which is about 5 days).
8
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
I'd have dropped the 'my dear' personally, but I don't think he was 'talking shit'
5 year old children learn that continued bad behaviour leads to escalating punishment. I'm not sure why we, as a playerbase, struggle with it.
As I said in Discord, too, there's an actual history of Eleusis/Oakstone enemying Sartan in the past. He reacted much more violently than this back then, lol. If you're a forestal trying to engage a god, shouldn't you at least be expected to have basic knowledge of past history with them?
Everyone's like 'oh we want more god rp!!' but not when it's negative to them.
You're lucky he didn't kill all of Eleusis, destroy all your rooms, and exterminate every forest in the game.
You don't get to do that and talk to gods like that. Cringe worthy log.
Dunn tells you, "I hate you."
(Party): You say, "Bad plan coming right up."
I'm sure it's difficult to predict how these things will play out for anyone, particularly gods when playing the game. I'm sure the TDF will be favourably reviewed (lol punz).
The entire theme of this war seems to be that people seem incapable of making the link between action and consequence.
Is the TDF going too far? Probably, but only because the mechanics are bullshit. Gods need to have a way to punish mortals for roleplay reasons that 1. aren't just killing them, and 2. don't require them to come up with a custom punishment. TDFs should fill that role, but the mechanics involved are overly punishing because of the skill adjustments. Those should probably be removed from both favours and disfavours; the damage increase and lowered stats is sufficient to communicate "You crossed a line." in most cases.
I seriously doubt that Gods consider the specific impact they'll have on your skills with a (dis)favour, and instead simply think of it in terms of a sliding scale of tools available to them to communicate that they're not happy with you.
Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files
I don't know if he's right or not, not my place, just how I'm interpreting this thread.
ETA: look up the Einstein quote about the definition of insanity.
I cant stand the way mortals talk to Divine like that and ( then usually run here to bitch about RP..) you just disrespected a God. If it was your Order that is one thing... this was calling a Divine out in front of all of Sapience.
In this case the TDF miiight be much (1 day would suffice) but everything else shows a shit ton of restraint from a God (ig).
Historically speaking, enemying a god to an organisation has been very rarely done and the god retaliation has generally been about this level or worse. Some gods are more tolerant of it, but Sartan is basically at the complete other end of that spectrum. Maggoting is actually the norm here, but that would not have been appropriate during the middle of a war.
I can promise you with 100% guarantee that the player behind Sartan has no personal dislike of Eleusis or Eleusian players. He is very true to the Sartan role and his role's actions in this regard were very much in keeping with previous incarnations of Mhaldorian gods. I understand that this will be very inconvenient, but I'll note that dragoncraft gives mechanical recourse in your case, and on the bright side you'll be able to flex about this a year from now. Disfavours are for days, bragging rights are forever.
I would've been fine with a tdf for a day, con set to somethine really low like 5 for a few days or whatever. But the level of constraint plus the duration is a pretty strong punishment given the impact vs what was said (I did miss capitalizing a 'Y' there, that was unintended btw, as you can see the last You IS capitalized). Also I was pretty much burnt to the ground on discord for using 'my dear Sartan', I didn't think that would be condescending so I'll take that as a lessons learned.
Also, like the admins probably already are aware of, Eleusis is being torn up by internal bickering. It's been going on for a pretty long while now and it's starting to reach a critical point, numbers of players online are dropping (at least during my play times), players are leaving, and the council is divided on almost every little thing. Let's just say I'm hoping to receive a new Matron soon (and since gods are apparently able to draw up their own rule book, I'm hoping for a real bitchy Artemis here > RIP Mhaldor), so we can get a focus on something else instead of our internal bickering and political schemes.
Sartan is probably like the only God who gets himself enemied to orgs >_>
I said this before, but I'll ask @Makarios @Nicola @Tecton again: I really think the game would be well served by thinking up some other effect for a God-given TDF rather than having it be the exact same as an admin-given one.
Damn how times have changed...
Anyone remember Original Babel's good ol' horribly painful spirit-shattering punishments? I sure do.
Those require thought and some imagination which is what you want from the admin. I'm not going to comment on this war as I'm not involved at all, but just hitting the TDF button seems more like an OOC punishment than an IC one, even though it is IC. As @Antonius said above, the mechanics here are not great.
5 days, especially whenever the city is in dire conflict with another is like going "Hey. You know how you guys were being crushed before? GGHF"
Am I saying he didn't deserve it? Oh hell no, Coamenel is fuckin dumb IC and is lolz inducing at best. However, basically just chopping off someone's leg for 5 OOC days is.. kinda harsh. They don't have an Artemis or Gaia to TF them to counterbalance it.
Hell, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say he's not gonna be able to hunt or pvp with that. Always gotta remember that fine balance between IC punishment and OOC fun. A 'curse' is one thing (random hell visions/ambient messages that eventually lead to death and/or worse for a few hours). TDF requires nothing extra put in by the god (which can be a good thing if he's short on time and fucks to give), but doesn't really enhance Coamenel's RP...
Eh. It'll work itself out eventually.
The majority of complaints brought up are about TDFs in general and how stunting they make gameplay, rather than the individual in question being punished, yes?
For the first, I can agree TDFs are just a bad form of punishment, however a more 'developed' or 'designed' punishment, such as those historical ones we have seen in the past, requires quite some time to make. We are basically asking of the admin behind Sartan to take some time out to develop some interesting curse or what-not that would properly define the punishment and exhibit the wrath of Sartan. We cant even be sure he has the time to take out to do that.
I do still agree about TDFs and what they do to gameplay.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.