Sartan vs Eleusis

Aegoth

I remember when Sartan HDFed me for 12 rl days bc i failed a task, and I still raided in lesserform. Mindset is everything. All this whining... sheesh.

Eleusis only has themselves to blame for being persnickety little shitheads throughout this while ordeal. 

Ahmet

Want good punishments? Force people to touch Gaia's frog.

Dochitha

The shouts were disrespectful, but well played. 

The tdf is right on spot, better than maggoting, but the punishment is inappropriate. 

Agree with everyone, God tdf needs better mechanics, different from administrative punishment, before it hurts your business $$$. 

Alrena

When I left Eleusis, I had -two- TDF's for 5 rl days. And a ton of Eleusians very eager to get my head.

Honestly, it's very annoying to see just how bad Eleusis is with respecting Gods. By far the worst of all the factions. You talk about your RP not allowing you to surrender but it's a-okay to talk crap to a God? Come on.

Antonius

Alrena said:

it's a-okay to talk crap to a God?

As long as you don't tread on any flowers in the process.

Valaria

At this point, it seems only way to go against an Elder God is to band all dragons(except mhaldorian?) against Himself... just as it has been done ages ago in the Lore(against different elder gods). but.. who will be the one to band all dragons together?
From the RP point of view, it is probably only the way to force Elder God's to respect and not to bother mortal's affair. Although I'm not sure how exact this event happened.

In any case, good luck guys I'm playing lusternia way before Sartan vs Eleusis happened. And good luck try to RP this out!

Cooper

Asmodron said:

5 day TDFs are considered harsh punishment?


Damn how times have changed...



Anyone remember Original Babel's good ol' horribly painful spirit-shattering punishments? I sure do.

That was my first thought too. When I left the original Infernal guild, I was given what was called an eternal disfavour at the time. Basically the TDF today. It was unlimited duration.

I think it was about 3 RL months that I had it before I did whatever it was to remove it. Knowing me back then it was probably crying and begging like a little bitch until he gave in.

Atalkez

Cooper said:

Asmodron said:

5 day TDFs are considered harsh punishment?


Damn how times have changed...



Anyone remember Original Babel's good ol' horribly painful spirit-shattering punishments? I sure do.

That was my first thought too. When I left the original Infernal guild, I was given what was called an eternal disfavour at the time. Basically the TDF today. It was unlimited duration.

I think it was about 3 RL months that I had it before I did whatever it was to remove it. Knowing me back then it was probably crying and begging like a little bitch until he gave in.

FTFY

Kiet

Sobriquet said:

TDF's are so... boring and unthoughtful. Doesn't take any imagination to execute. We have unique insta kills, divine with no balance loss to make their own (Pandora hitting 50 fashions and obliterating instantly was amusing) and mortals thrown into aggressive mobs, or onto the Moon, or depths of the sea. Unique RP retaliation? Just ask Tenebrus and Tarah. It might have taken a few minutes to write up, but surely enveloping him in red fog causing death, or such like wouldn't be too hard?

Those require thought and some imagination which is what you want from the admin. I'm not going to comment on this war as I'm not involved at all, but just hitting the TDF button seems more like an OOC punishment than an IC one, even though it is IC. As @Antonius said above, the mechanics here are not great. 

I agree that skill malus is a bit strong for IC punishments, but it's really not that bad anyway, it's not like you can't fight in dragon or do less pk for 5 days.

I am pretty tired of the 'but it's not original!' complaints, though. What exactly do you expect? For gods to put their 100% creativity into every single interaction, ever? That's a good way to burn them out even faster. I know that I, personally, run out of creative ways to even welcome people to our City pretty quickly, I can't imagine having to come up with a unique punishment every single time someone is sassy when playing a factional god.

Also, yeah, come on, if someone can carry two tdf's while being hunted by the entirety of a city personally, then you can deal with one when dealing with mostly group stuff.

Nazihk

IMO "city brand sartan enemy" is a half-ass minimum-effort insult, so the minimum-effort TDF pairs up nicely with it. 

Ankhareoutef

To be fair, I don't think this circumstance really warrants a super well thought out God punishment.  That's more for people heavily invested in that God's domain, and well, this just isn't that.

Not everything deserves a creative punishment.

Kiet

Let me tell you he punishes us in creative ways pretty regularly. I agree that's something you have to earn, though.

Gannicus

I'd say you got off pretty easy, despite the length of the disfavor.

When Landon, as Speaker of Eleusis at the time, enemied Sartan the entire Garden truedisfavored him. It was considered incredulous that a mortal would attempt to lower a God into the petty politics of cities.

Sobriquet

Kiet said:

Sobriquet said:

TDF's are so... boring and unthoughtful. Doesn't take any imagination to execute. We have unique insta kills, divine with no balance loss to make their own (Pandora hitting 50 fashions and obliterating instantly was amusing) and mortals thrown into aggressive mobs, or onto the Moon, or depths of the sea. Unique RP retaliation? Just ask Tenebrus and Tarah. It might have taken a few minutes to write up, but surely enveloping him in red fog causing death, or such like wouldn't be too hard?

Those require thought and some imagination which is what you want from the admin. I'm not going to comment on this war as I'm not involved at all, but just hitting the TDF button seems more like an OOC punishment than an IC one, even though it is IC. As @Antonius said above, the mechanics here are not great. 

I agree that skill malus is a bit strong for IC punishments, but it's really not that bad anyway, it's not like you can't fight in dragon or do less pk for 5 days.

I am pretty tired of the 'but it's not original!' complaints, though. What exactly do you expect? For gods to put their 100% creativity into every single interaction, ever? That's a good way to burn them out even faster. I know that I, personally, run out of creative ways to even welcome people to our City pretty quickly, I can't imagine having to come up with a unique punishment every single time someone is sassy when playing a factional god.

Also, yeah, come on, if someone can carry two tdf's while being hunted by the entirety of a city personally, then you can deal with one when dealing with mostly group stuff.

Oh, I'm not saying that you have to have unique interactions for everyone, the Gods will burn out. I feel flinging him across the continent into an instkill room would be pretty cool though 

Kiet

Everytime he's killed someone that I saw it was a unique room, dropping holocausts, his unique insta, or generally unique things. At some point you want more than that as a punishment, though.

Aerek

Skill loss on TDFs is too harsh save for perhaps Administrative punishments, and is the only reason (reasonable) people complain about them. The loss of stats and extra damage from a TDF is fine and interesting; the removal of capstone abilities for an extended amount of time removes (some) players' ability to enjoy the game at all. If it were not for that, nothing in the OP is even remotely rant-worthy.

I have never understood the animus against branding gods as city enemies. To expect to enemy a God and get no response is foolish, but to say Sartan isn't an enemy of Eleusis or Targossas is also silly. I would fully expect some form of dramatic reply from the god if I enemied one, but I don't know why we think that move is such a faux pas. Formal enemy'ing of a god is rare, but then a god taking a personal hand in wiping out a defense party is, itself, highly unusual. While that's certainly within their rights as a GM and storyteller--and I'm fine with that--I don't see why gods' direct transgressions should be overlooked by nation states. Thoth burned down the Mojushaine Hold, and Cyrene enemied him for it. Why should that be a strange concept?

In essence, I don't see a problem with anything that happened on either side, except the skill loss on TDFs.

Taryius

Sartans interference wasn't even that bad, he wiped them out when we weren't fighting and its not like we charged into the field to take advantage of all their deaths. We decided we wanted to raid Eleusis, regather our forces, sent our serpent in and by the time we entered Eleusis they were all back up.

Eliana

Frederich said:

Am I saying he didn't deserve it?  Oh hell no, Coamenel is fuckin dumb IC and is lolz inducing at best.  However, basically just chopping off someone's leg for 5 OOC days is.. kinda harsh.  They don't have an Artemis or Gaia to TF them to counterbalance it.

This -->>  Coamenel is fuckin dumb IC and is lolz inducing at best <<-- is why I start to lose interest in Achaea. When will some of you stop being bitches and consider there are real people behind the characters? 

Melodie

Alrena said:

When I left Eleusis, I had -two- TDF's for 5 rl days. And a ton of Eleusians very eager to get my head.

Honestly, it's very annoying to see just how bad Eleusis is with respecting Gods. By far the worst of all the factions. You talk about your RP not allowing you to surrender but it's a-okay to talk crap to a God? Come on.

This. Gaia also TDF'd and maggoted me when I left Eleusis, the first for 3-5 days and the latter for a day (Artemis wasn't back yet). I literally had less than 1k health. Iakimen pwned me with 1 1/2 combos from full health because after I left and joined mdor, there was a lot of fighting going on. I was in a brand new class I had no idea what to do with, could barely function in, and had my skills decimated in. Hasar thought I was insane but I just kept on fighting, anyway.

Talk/do shit, get hit. It's life. 

Aodfionn

I had to deal with worse just to apply to join Mhaldor. Zero sympathy for the anger over a punishment that will pretty quickly go away. 

Kayeil

Enemying like that is a mortal construct. Totems and guards aren't going to hit or bother a God. I can see why doing such a thing comes with backlash. Charging a God with fees and what not isn't going to get you anywhere, and a God isn't going to contact your minister of security to get unenemied. This is why it can be such a huge insult because Gods aren't held to mortal punishments and expectations, we are beneath them and not the other way around, even the ones we disagree with IC.

Khel

I seem to recall Kairuni getting hdf'd, killed at Fish Street a few times, along with long-term cursed to say random Seven Truths, all because he enemied Apples to Shallam. Just a 5 day HDF doesn't strike me as such a big thing.

Asmodron

Valaria said:

In any case, good luck guys I'm playing lusternia

My condolences

Asmodron

Cooper said:

Asmodron said:

5 day TDFs are considered harsh punishment?


Damn how times have changed...



Anyone remember Original Babel's good ol' horribly painful spirit-shattering punishments? I sure do.

That was my first thought too. When I left the original Infernal guild, I was given what was called an eternal disfavour at the time. Basically the TDF today. It was unlimited duration.

I think it was about 3 RL months that I had it before I did whatever it was to remove it. Knowing me back then it was probably crying and begging like a little bitch until he gave in.

Mmm that one sounds beautifully painful.

I recall when Babel tortured me for straight up an entire month. Original Babel was big on respect, which a lot were refusing to give because he was basically redefining the idea of Chaos and....was a doomsayer. In the end, He won, and I gave in.

Valaria

Asmodron said:

Valaria said:

In any case, good luck guys I'm playing lusternia

My condolences

why it sound like you pity me? Nah, only the reason I got bored because, at dragon level, there is nothing to offer but levels and talisman. So, I just got bored as result of that. Wish I could stay longer but I'm not into Korean grinding style.

Kiet

weird, I've kept doing stuff after I got dragon.

Farrah

Kiet said:

weird, I've kept doing stuff after I got dragon.

You didn't get the memo that we aren't allowed to leave the Parthren Gare, ever again? A lifetime of Titonus's dragon meetings and listening to him boast about his scale colour.

Valaria

Farrah said:

Kiet said:

weird, I've kept doing stuff after I got dragon.

You didn't get the memo that we aren't allowed to leave the Parthren Gare, ever again? A lifetime of Titonus's dragon meetings and listening to him boast about his scale colour.

hahaha. Sadly, on similar note, my character never left Parthren Gare. If i were RPin, I would be teaching dragon-lets to fly and Don't be like those spineless sapience dragons down below.

Ognog

No doubt there is more going on between Mhaldor, Sartan and Eleusis than I see, but news of Lord Sartan personally slaying Eleusis' defense parties and nobbling the combat abilities of an Eleusis leader isn't a particularly good look, especially when Eleusis doesn't have an active God to operate at that level. Just because Mhaldor has an active God on it's side shouldn't mean Mhaldor becomes invincible while their enemies are brought to their knees.

Reyson

You're grossly overexaggerating, clearly haven't read the circumstances of those attacks, and are ignoring the part where Eleusis brought this on themselves. Maybe you should read the whole thread before opining?