Forums Home Forum Rules Achaea.com Lore Wiki Vote for Achaea! IronRealms.com
Home› Everything Achaea› North of Thera

Cyrene

123468

Comments

  • IdelisaIdelisa
    @Tvistor *cough-her-cough*
    image
  • MelodieMelodie Port Saint Lucie, Florida
    edited December 2012
    Okay, since I think I was the one to mention people sitting and doing nothing in Senate meetings, I'll address that.

    I understand the environment is very controlled, and can be a bit stifling. That's because unfortunately, if we did not, the meetings would (and have in the past) go on for hours - two, three, four, sometimes more. I remember during the time the Citadel sent their missive to Cyrene, we had an open forum (rather than a meeting) that lasted for four-five hours. It was ridiculous, I was exhausted. And then we had another private meeting that lasted three hours a day or two after that. Since that time period, though, the Senate has been slowly making things a lot more effective. In our last meeting, @Verrucht tried something new - if people wished, they could voice a very quick opinion, either agreeing or a simple point, to him privately, and he'll express it out loud. This is not only much, much quicker, but opinions were still expressed in a way that could be constructive.

    You have to remember, even during huge world events, often the admin will put in a block to make it so people cannot emote, use defenses, attack, etc etc just so the actual story unfolding can happen. Ours is similar to that, but not quite so restrictive. Also, if the open meeting is smaller, we tend to be a lot less strict on those attending, and let them move around and express themselves in a better fashion. Numbers play a huge part here. We try to let people still come and have the ability to learn and express themselves, while still getting things done in a timely fashion. It's an extremely difficult game of give and take, and it's something we -constantly- test new things and improve on. If you have any actual -constructive- suggestions you'd like to try to improve the atmosphere, please, feel free to contact a Senator IG!

    I agree with a lot of @Aerek's points, as well. While you are certainly allowed to deviate from the norm as a character, just remember, that doesn't mean you're going to get approval (ICly) about it. I'm pretty sure the last two times I had a major deviation in my RP, I was in all kinds of trouble with different kinds of people! Still ended up being some of the best roleplay I've had in a long, long time.
    And I love too                                                                          Be still, my indelible friend
    That love soon might end                                                         You are unbreaking
    And be known in its aching                                                      Though quaking
    Shown in this shaking                                                             Though crazy
    Lately of my wasteland, baby                                                 That's just wasteland, baby
  • KadenKaden
    >_> Personally think just being there, even if you don't say anything is a good sign. You can at least hope they're learning something and just don't have anything to say (that hasn't been already said). It does tend to get silly when things loop around and you can't expect everyone to each have a super special insight.
  • MelodieMelodie Port Saint Lucie, Florida
    edited December 2012
    @Kaden, no, of course I don't expect everyone to have an awe-inspiring insight into a situation. Especially when we start talking finances and math and all of that, something I struggle to follow myself. But I cannot tell you how many times we've had people just time out during a meeting - I think I recall one where we had maybe a dozen people attending, and a good four-five timed out, and I think perhaps two of them came back. That was just -one- meeting. We've also had times where we present certain subjects to the citizenry, expecting a lot of backlash or opinions, and the whole crowd is silent and has nothing to say. That is where a lot of our annoyances at apathy come in - when it's a topic that actually affects the city greatly, but people not only have nothing to say on it, they're timing out in the room with us. You can understand how that's frustrating to seven five people who spend hours a week putting their time into this.

    It likely wouldn't bother me half as much if people would show any actual interest other than showing up and sitting silently. Making a few comments in tells. Talking to one of us before/after the meeting. Doing a few emotes, even just small ones, when possible. When you feel the need to, speaking out as another opinion. Anything to show you're actually interested and not just using us as a safe AFK room.
    And I love too                                                                          Be still, my indelible friend
    That love soon might end                                                         You are unbreaking
    And be known in its aching                                                      Though quaking
    Shown in this shaking                                                             Though crazy
    Lately of my wasteland, baby                                                 That's just wasteland, baby
  • IdelisaIdelisa
    edited December 2012
    @Melodie, I've already mentioned how much I appreciate all that you do, and I genuinely do so I hope that you don't read my picking that particular issue out as anything more than an example.

    I think it's a very good demonstration of how individuals who are passionate about something may wrongfully judge others that do not respond/react/interact the way they feel people should.  It's in our nature.

    I personally feel that there's really nothing wrong with the meetings, they SHOULD be organized and as @Nim stated, I think it's fairly well known why they are structured.  I am sure someone disagrees with how they are run, but I dunno that it's actually been expressed here.  Nim pointed out possible reasons for an individual not interacting in the meeting, while still acknowledging why it could be perceived as apathetic.


    image
  • IdelisaIdelisa
    @Melodie, you could always start just picking out random people to ask the opinion of if you wanted to ensure there are no AFK-ers. :)
    image
  • ArlandaArlanda
    It really depends on how you want to RP your character. If you want it to be actively involved in changing policies and stuff then you've got to speak up and approach the Senators. Tie them down and argue over issues with them. If you prefer to RP a quiet service then grab an aide job and do behind-the-scenes jobs and shut up. Arlanda mostly does the latter. 

    Also it could be a problem between balancing your priorities. Some people invest most of their energy in their Order or House and leave little for the city. Similarly some invest most of their energy in the City and little for others. Nobody can say the other person is wrong. It is just a difference in what you are looking for. 
  • JamethielJamethiel Adelaide
    The other glitch is that people overestimate the time they have to do the "work" (for want of a better word) they've promised to do and then they get overwhelmed. Usually people don't want to disappoint others so they keep their "positions" but look like they're not doing much. This is as much a problem in real life organisations as it is in Achaea and I suspect all the other MUDs get the same issue.
  • VayneVayne Rhode Island
    Cultural change is sloooooooooooooooooooow. Ask the KGB.
    image
  • MelodieMelodie Port Saint Lucie, Florida
    @Arlanda covered mostly what I wanted to say, just very bluntly! This is in no way any grump towards your alt, @Idelisa, as obviously, I dunno who they are/their circumstances, and our couple of IC interactions on your main have been just fine.

    However, I might take that suggestion under advisement, if I can get the Senate to play along. Next meeting is open, too... hmm.
    And I love too                                                                          Be still, my indelible friend
    That love soon might end                                                         You are unbreaking
    And be known in its aching                                                      Though quaking
    Shown in this shaking                                                             Though crazy
    Lately of my wasteland, baby                                                 That's just wasteland, baby
  • HalosHalos The Reaches
    Vayne said:
    Cultural change is sloooooooooooooooooooow. Ask the KGB.
    agreed

    A frenzied cleric screams, "Like more than one halo!"
  • IdelisaIdelisa
    @melodie it would probably fail miserably at first unless you declared up front that you would be doing that. It would be a good way for people to feel like they are involved, too, while still keeping things in check.

    And I know it's not but it was something I could relate to and use for discussions sake. :)

    image
  • TrillianaTrilliana
    Damn, i didn't want to post here, but here goes.

    I think at least most of the Senators have noticed that Trilliana's very quiet even mid-meeting, and I can't even say that OOC stuff has come up (IE: it's dinner time and I have 2 very loud children...) Most of my questions are asked or answered before I can even think to bring them up. 

    Cyrene -really- used to be a lot of fun, I still remember we had bachelor and bachelorette auctions for fun on CT, but that's before the Divine put their foot down about it- and yes gold went to Cyrene. We also had random design other auctions as well in the courthouse one Blufest. I really do see a lot of people who are active in Cyrene, but it's not the way the Senate would like them to be active, and understandably so... people saying they wouldn't win an election vs me and @naomh... that's just insane, everyone stands a chance. 

    I honestly love the group of Senators we have, the Ministers need to get good aides though, that's the big one. That's the only problem I see- they get aides that don't do anything, and it's sad. But that's about the only complaint I have. 

    And I'm done!
    meh


  • BoosteyaBoosteya
    I just skimmed through six pages of talk about Cyrene, and if anyone used the idea of moderation (not admins and such, but a conscious steering away from an excess of anything) then I missed it. Then again, I WAS only looking for the one word.

    Please picture a group of at least twenty people, all pulling a large circle of cloth in his or her own direction. Net result: nothing moves, nobody's happy, nobody's interested.

    Now, change the people, so that they raise the big circle to gather air underneath, and on a signal, people at various points move with their edges toward the middle, while the rest, on that signal, simply let go. Those people will see the cloth as the air escapes, and there will be a point where it will look like a mushroom.

    This is a visual example... and now I'm thinking people will think I'm off-topic, but I'm not.

    Meh. I'm going to bed soon. I'll give this another go, but if I don't post this, I'll forget the meaning.
    Miin-aan baash kimini-sij-i-gan bitooyin sij-i-gan-i bukwayszhiigan = blueberry π
  • TreyTrey
    To forget it I think there has to be one there already. O.o

  • JamethielJamethiel Adelaide
    edited December 2012

    Most of the aides to culture - who are actually aides to culture for culture's sake (1) - are active within the realms in some sense. Some of them are very active in their house, their order and others are active with other ministries. The problem isn't that the aides do nothing at all it's that they don't have enough time to de everything for which they've committed themselves. 

    In addition, all the ministers, naturally, have different personalities, as does the Senate. The Senate as a group has a personality of its own just as all groups take on an individual personality. Then, of course, there are the citizens themselves. Being an aide means you have to work with a minister and the Senate to do something that the citizens want. Citizens want security. They'd like an active Minister of War for when Cyrene does step outside of the Vashnars and to help train them for rampages, CTFs and the like. They don't want to deal with the intricacies of the embassy and figuring out who may join if they have interesting backgrounds and such. They want cultural events.

    I can probably talk for all the ministers in Sapience and say that trying to get the elected (are the Viceroys in Mhaldor elected?) officials, the relevant minister, the aides and the citizens to actually agree on a course of action and have the majority of all said parties somewhat happy about the actions (for some definition of happy) is possible but a lot of hard work. It's often work that doesn't pay off up front. Take for example organising a festival. Sounds easy? Even figuring out a theme for the festival can become a discussion point (and then @Sarapis drops Bal'met on the world). Once you've done that, even if you've farmed out the work to other organisations, you still need to make sure that they've actually got their act together; and trust me the organisations one thinks would be orderly are not always the most orderly! Then you have to deal with the amazing Achaean time calculations (confounded 25 hour months), the fact everyone's all over the world and it's easily overwhelming especially if one mob says, "Oh, but I can't, I want to switch with them" and so forth. My point is, that it's a lot of work, a lot of thought and not much gain until the festival/event is over. Even then you'll have people finding faults with how it run, or you might think to yourself I could have done that better.

    For culture, at least, being an aide can be a lot of fun. It can also be a lot of work and culture being what culture is, it's not so hard to figure out what culture the Senate and the city wants - I believe all Cyrenians who do participate actively have a reasonable idea of Cyrenian culture - however finding enough things to do with enough aides to do it such that most people feel included who aren't overburdened by other Achaean work who get along well with the Minister and Senate is a task with many shifting variables.

    People might criticise the current Minister of Culture for various reasons but in reality, he took over during a time when the Minister of Culture was effectively absent, got landed with a large event that hadn't been organised and, to coin a phrase, got Bal'metted! The city's doing its best to have a semblance of normality - quizzes still run, the arena games (some with awards) still run, UnCyrenian Families is still played - but having new Lords appear, cities sink and Divine die makes for interesting times. And it make the job of the Senate or any of the Ministers any more easy. To be honest, I can hear the thought now: "Gods drying, cities sinking, I'll become a Ministerial aide!"

    Being a culture aide - and I suspect the other ministries have similar issues - can be very rewarding but it's not like it's a clan slot for a clan you don't speak on. It does require effort and work and unfortunately, sometimes, I think it's easier for people to enjoy the work of others rather than put in some of that work themselves. Those motivated are often motivated in their house, their order and other organisations. As I said at the beginning, most of the aides who are active in Cyrene are actively doing work for something that contributes to Cyrene (e.g. being a novice aide who works hard for their house). I don't think it's a problem we'll overcome soon; it's a problem that happens out here in real life just as much as it is in Sapience.

    Still, I do intend to find some more active aides and hopefully without huge overlaps in time.

    (1) Some aides to culture are aides in order to ensure that combat training can take place in the arena.
  • IdelisaIdelisa
    @Daeir - it sounds like you took what is a huge compliment to Cyrene (the fact that leadership DOES help provide activities and whatnot, versus other cities which do not), and turned it into an insult.
    image
  • LodiLodi
    Daeir said:
    ... despite the fact that the world is literally falling to pieces as people rave on about nonsensical things. I can't even make this stuff up.


    Sounds like RL. :(
    I won a competition awhile ago to have Chris Bourassa paint a picture of Lodi. My profile pic is the end product. :)
  • ArlandaArlanda
    Daeir said:
    That's not quite the point I wanted to get across. It's great that these things are done, but they should not be a necessity or used as a crutch in order to establish interaction. The other cities all have causes or other things to align around in order to spark that stuff off, what does Cyrene have?

    I don't know. Maybe that's the point of Cyrene, a neutral housing for people with commitments to other organizations.
    For example it could be Mhaldor does things that revolves around Evil, Shallam did things that revolved around Good. Cyrene does things that revolves around what we want to do. Simple as that.
  • TvistorTvistor
    edited December 2012
    @Lodi

    That's deep, man.
  • KadenKaden
    Which is a long way of saying: we may be doing nothing but it's our nothing, damn it! 

    Addendum: And you can keep your daily four hour raids! 
  • ArlandaArlanda
    Daeir said:
    Which apparently, is nothing!
    Well I would have to disagree, the purpose of Cyrene's creation was for it to be a haven for people who do not want to get overly involved in all the Good-Evil fight. People who want to perhaps hunt, quest, cook, tailor and whatnot in peace without having to worry about being ganked suddenly on the highway.
  • ArlandaArlanda
    Daeir said:
    Arlanda said:
    Daeir said:
    Which apparently, is nothing!
    Well I would have to disagree, the purpose of Cyrene's creation was for it to be a haven for people who do not want to get overly involved in all the Good-Evil fight. People who want to perhaps hunt, quest, cook, tailor and whatnot in peace without having to worry about being ganked suddenly on the highway.
    Bah, you don't get it. You can have a central theme that doesn't revolve around doing nothing. Like having the city cater towards craftsmen or artisans, or as a city of art, or something of that calibre. Isn't Hashan formed on the same value of neutrality as well?
    Central theme: Do what you want as long as you don't step on the toes of others. 

    And as long as the Cyrene citizens like it then its fine. It's sort of like someone saying that you can't sit at home and do nothing but play achaea because it is equivalent to doing nothing. Your reaction would be then: 1) It isn't nothing, it is something I like 2) Even if it is nothing as defined by you, as long as I like it then so be it
  • ArlandaArlanda
    Very limited interaction with the Patron? o.O Prepared to get bombed by the Cyrenians... There is so much interaction to the extent sometimes he wants us to shut up and not say hello to him
This discussion has been closed.