Cyrene

Velyse

I agree with Iocun that ideally there should be no mandate that cities must have rigid ideologies, directly conflicting with an opposing city. It feels a little silly and unrealistic to divy everyone up into black-and-white teams, and makes everything incredibly predictable. Unfortunately, there aren't many legitimate avenues for conflict outside of doing just that under the current system. As is, the near entirety of Achaean conflict essentially boils down to variations of: "I am ideologically opposed to you, so we are going to come into your city and kill your people." This means that conflict comes, primarily, from those with strong ideological bases who have strong moral opposition to another entity.

Cyrene is a city based on an ideological aversion to combat (hereafter referred to as "PK"), in a game where the primary driving force behind interaction/conflict is PK over ideology. Really, there are three options to changing this: Force them to join the existing war on Shallam's side, separate and create a new war with a new Cyrenian ideological pantheon (to be based off of Scarlatti, Phaestus, and maybe Neraeos), or create a new system that allows for conflict/world influence through non-PK methods. They all have their problems: Redundancy, upsetting a major group of players within the city, shoehorning of some manner, and never-gonna-happen-because-it-would-take-a-new-mechanic to name a few.

All that being said, Cyrene has an incredibly healthy albeit disconnected population, so while steps may be taken to bring players together I don't think that radically changing what the city does or stands for is a good idea. Respect should probably go. When I first started reading this thread, I couldn't think of any times that "respect" and "disrespect" had been used as a shield from, or dismissal of criticism. By the time I was done, I could think of three that stood out, and I've not been playing for more than a few months.

I'd also not like to see Cyrene basically become Shallam-light, and I think most of the player base would hate to see that too. If there's going to be a shifting of Cyrene's ideologies, I'd rather it be away from Shallam and toward a more independent conflict, preferably something new with Hashan. Hashan needs love, too.

Daklore

@Idelisa the reference is actually Dragonball Z Abridged, not Cyrene. Nice try, though.

As shown here:

Verrucht

@Daeir really points to my largest frustration, which is that I have to get out and beat the drum and practically force people to participate in things for the city. If I want people to show up to something, I have to blast the city channel with over and over and over.

I tend to agree with @Iocun, also. I think that having a specific driving purpose can be a nice RP tool, but also tends to alienate people who enjoy one aspect of a city but not others. I like that Cyrene is inclusive in this way and that we allow multiple directions for people to go in and still be "Cyrenian".

As for the people who have talked about respect, I feel like you're talking about a problem that doesn't really exist anymore. The days of using respect as a shield and a sword both is pretty much over, the last time I saw someone try it over the city channel, they got told off. Having said that, I think that respect as a core principle is NOT a bad thing. It gives the city as a whole a sense of decency and decorum that (from what I've been told by other people, and shown in logs) other cities seem to lack.

I like that pretty much the leadership just have to clear their throats and people shut their shutholes over the city channel if they're being ridiculous.

I like that people from 18 year old obvialts to 300+ year old cranky jerks have a say in the city.

I like the culture that we've made, even if people get persnickity over little things and blow things out of proportion.

We have a nice sense of togetherness and I've actually described Cyrene as a tribe before, quite seriously. I just wish that people seemed to give more of a crap on a daily basis.

---

P.S. As for @Kyrra - in the end the happiness of the player is the most important thing. I think none of us should ever lose sight of the fact that this is a game and should be treated as such. As long as the way we play it doesn't negatively impact others in a real sense, we should go for it.

Aerek

I actually agree with @Iocun on all fronts. I think Cyrene's lack of clear, one-directional ideology is why it's interesting, because I'd quickly tire of one-way zealotry in Shallam or Mhaldor. The city really isn't that different from Ashtan, in principle, it's just the different attitudes of the states that makes Ashtan extroverted and Cyrene introverted. Even so, the tag-team of Phaestus and Scarlatti has worked hard to drive home the idea that we may be neutral, but that doesn't allow us to be apathetic. @Kyrra's mention of the argument about Selene's teachings is a prime example of that, where our Patron(s) threw down against a perspective that ran counter to the city's established culture. (The argument in question was about how killing kids could be "beautiful" according to Selene's doctrine.) I know a lot of Beloved were offended by that, but it was a great precedent for the city because it sends a clear message to the citizens that just because something is tolerated within Cyrene, doesn't mean it's accepted. We may not have a core, centralized ideology, but that doesn't mean "anything goes". We have a culture, and we have a purpose, it's just multifaceted and realistic instead of one-dimensional. That's a blessing, not a bane.

Respect is a double-edged sword. One one hand, it lays the foundation for a tighter community than you see in Ashtan or Hashan by regulating what is acceptable behavior from citizens across the board. On the other, it does raise difficulties when it comes time for the city to discuss the hard questions. To answer @Tanris' question about those debates, in my experience, it usually requires a high-ranking citizen or Patron to step in and say "No, keep talking about this, it's important," after someone tries to end the discussion by playing the "respect" card. I can't say I'd want to axe it, entirely, as we'd have to replace it with something that would continue to maintain that sense of unity. (And the "City of Common Courtesy" sounds even more lame) I think all that's really necessary is to cultivate leadership that takes a practical approach to it, using the idea of respect to regulate the masses' behavior, but not allowing it to stagnate the discussion and evolution of Cyrenian culture as the world changes around us. Honestly, I think we're doing okay in this regard right now. Our Patrons don't pull punches when people try to hide behind respect, and I can't think of any current leaders that use it as a weapon, either.

I think the only complaints I have about the city are inactivity and the current tendency to "stay the course" in the terms of policy making, and I think the former might be an effect of the latter. Cyrene, being a neutral state, always has the potential to be dull and boring, but that tedium is usually broken up by instances of controversy or unexpected mobilization. That stirs up passions, inspires activity, gets the citizenry a little frenzied. Can it result in some headaches and drama? Of course it does, but it keeps folks engaged, which I think is a worthwhile trade. I guess the best way to sum up my thoughts is that I haven't been "surprised" by Cyrene's leadership since I came out of dormancy. (At least 7 months ago, maybe more) Before or while I was dormant, in no particular order:  we signed the non-aggression treaty with Mhaldor; that surprised me. We first objected to, but then negotiated a compromise with, Rho to save our Devotion; that surprised me. We mobilized the whole city to go to war in the Underworld when the Magisterion tried a coup; that surprised me. We declared war on Ashtan when they got too frisky; that surprised me. We then all-but impeached the Imperiate for signing a peace treaty; that blew my mind. It's important to note that I didn't agree with all of these things, I was against some of them, (or would have been, was I active) but I still enjoyed them because they were interesting, unusual, engaging, and broke the city out of its comfortable zone to try something new.

And then I came back. And since then, we've done nothing unexpected, nothing controversial, nothing to get the city's blood running. We came close with the Citadel vs. Lumeni episode, and there was debate about a city-wide ban on "new theft" by citizens, but those stayed comparatively low-key because of how reserved our leadership has been, the only real passion came from citizens who have no real pull or power within the city. I know it's ironic to complain about stately, professional, careful politicians, but the result is a Cyrene that's one big, happy family, where we don't squabble with each other anymore and we don't require unpopular things from our citizens anymore, and that's boring. And because that's boring, people have stopped caring and stopped participating. I admit to intentionally trying to stir up some dissent on occasion, (Which has not done wonders for my popularity!) because I think, more than anything, the Cyrenian leadership just needs to remember that this game is a story, and stories are only engaging and entertaining when they take risks, have plot twists, try new directions, and have villains. Right now, we're just a day-in-the-life-of blog, and it's losing people.

Iocun

Aerek said:

We came close with the Citadel vs. Lumeni episode

That's one thing I'm honestly a bit disappointed about. This had the potential of being a very interesting internal conflict, but it seems to me that much of what happened between the Citadel and the Lumeni was kept between themselves and never disclosed to the citizens of Cyrene. I learned lots of things from OOC sources regarding this that would have quite infuriated Iocun, but sadly it was never publicised IC.

Verrucht

I intended to comment to @Aerek from above with an edit, but in the end this was too long to do that.

Nothing Cyrene did impacted Rho's decision, and he was still going to excommunicate all of Cyrene, except that Mithraea and Pentharian stepped in and told him to back down. People always want to play up Cyrene's role in that, but as someone who saw into both sides both ICly and OOCly, it's kind of interesting to me how the story has shifted.

For the whole treaty-signing, that's a really long story that I don't particularly want to get into, old news as they'd say. However, I didn't find it particularly that interesting or enjoyable as someone who was pretty much mired in the whole mess. The one thing I am thankful about is that helped bring about open Senate meetings (which all the Senators complain about, but are really a positive since the citizens are given the opportunity to be engaged) and the transparency that might seem like a little meaningless nothing, but really represents a positive to me as both a citizen and a leader in it.

As for the Lumeni vs. Citadel incident, all that almost happened was a couple people almost got all of Cyrene's devotionists nuked because they thought that Cyrene devotion is somehow untouchable. Again, I don't find this enjoyable or interesting because of how many other people's gaming experiences would have been negatively impacted.

Lisbethae

I disagree that the problem is respect as a basic core value. The problem with it is that it may be a bit too complex for all people to understand completely. 

Respect isn't liking someone, it is letting them have their say. Respect isn't bridged when someone disagrees with you, too often it is seen as just that. You can respectfully say you are doing it wrong. Anymore, you can't have a discussion for long over CT before someone says, This is not the place for this conversation. Which makes me roll my eyes, nearly every time. If we actually did debate on CT, that would be wonderful, because it may show that people CARE.

The biggest problem with Respect is that Cyrene loses some of it's core beliefs because people are all, "respect what they are doing" even if it is square against the Ethos of the city. That's not respect, that's apathy to the purpose of the city. You can respectfully believe that someone is doing it wrong. Community isn't formed by everyone always doing their own thing, community is formed when people all do (roughly) the same thing. In a city of neutral Good, we tip toe around people who hunt anything and everything because it is easier, not because it is good RP. When we talk about it there is much about about hunting choices being their right. I think we'd gain a good deal if we took a stand one way or another. I'd like to see the "You're not the boss of me" attitude turned on its ear.

Aside with the core Apathy of purpose, the biggest problem I see is what someone termed "Buttsitters." People who sit around doing eff-all, except for pointing out the flaws of the things that the people who are doing things are doing. (Yup, like that sentence.)

The other problem I see are the "All for One and -I'm- the One" people. Sure, this is a game, you should enjoy it, but a city doesn't run on it's own. If you don't participate, the game isn't going to attract people. If it doesn't attract people, it won't be economically feasible to maintain, and that means, boys and girls, there would be no more Achaea.

Another problem, which I think isn't unique to Cyrene, is how quickly people take offense and are willing to cannibalize the community bonds in Cyrene. There's no slack cut for people because you know they meant well. There's no glossing over someone's bad day, giving people the benefit of the doubt, all too often people use someone's bad day as a reason to HATE THEM FOREVER.

Negative RP, we got. Positive, not so much.

PS - I should say that not everything is bad, there's good too. I have been amazed by many people, but this was talking about what is wrong, not what is right.

Vayne

Cyrene, City of Respect Postmodernism?

Aerek

Iocun said:

Aerek said:

We came close with the Citadel vs. Lumeni episode

That's one thing I'm honestly a bit disappointed about. This had the potential of being a very interesting internal conflict, but it seems to me that much of what happened between the Citadel and the Lumeni was kept between themselves and never disclosed to the citizens of Cyrene. I learned lots of things from OOC sources regarding this that would have quite infuriated Iocun, but sadly it was never publicised IC.

I feel the same. Without trying to be accusatory, I believe it was kept quiet because it would have infuriated the masses, and that's against the quiet, cautious, let's-not-get-anyone-riled mindset of the current leaders. I thought about trying to make it more public, but I was already on thin ice at the time, and being a rabble-rouser really isn't the image I want for Aerek, though I'm certain that's how some folks see me, by this point.

Edit: Dang, this thread exploded while I was typing.

@Verrucht It feels to me like you look at those events from practical and mechanical standpoints, where I see them from a narrative standpoint. The Cyrene/Mhaldor treaty was interesting because it brought out Cyrene's "Neutral" side over the "Good" side. The Rho ordeal showed me a side of the city that was willing to negotiate with foreign powers, when our usual response is "You can't tell us what to do!" The Citadel ordeal drastically altered the precedent of the Lumeni from "ally of the Church/Citadel with understood subservience" to "subsidiary of the Citadel." That's a big deal to the folks who built that clan up from the ground, and it would have been poor roleplay for some of us to go quietly along. Regardless of the individual details and behind-the-scenes factors, I enjoyed all of these events because they made for good stories to tell the next generations of players, or even people who don't play the game to show them how deep it is. I gloss over a lot of headaches and drama if it makes for a good story.

Cooper

Cyrene forum threads are the worst because everyone write a freaking book.

Aerek

It's because we don't get to talk about it on the forums often. :P

Talonia

Aerek said:

the Cyrenian leadership just needs to remember that this game is a story, and stories are only engaging and entertaining when they take risks, have plot twists, try new directions, and have villains. Right now, we're just a day-in-the-life-of blog, and it's losing people.

This is worth emphasizing.  In almost all the cities, leaders generally maintain a holding pattern resembling municipal government, with a focus on provision of services like credit sales, regen/alchemy/enchant rooms, etc.  If leaders were less concerned about clinging to power and willing to be a little wilder, things might be more fun without the admins having to come in to shake things up.  

Verrucht

Talonia said:

Aerek said:

the Cyrenian leadership just needs to remember that this game is a story, and stories are only engaging and entertaining when they take risks, have plot twists, try new directions, and have villains. Right now, we're just a day-in-the-life-of blog, and it's losing people.

This is worth emphasizing.  In almost all the cities, leaders generally maintain a holding pattern resembling municipal government, with a focus on provision of services like credit sales, regen/alchemy/enchant rooms, etc.  If leaders were less concerned about clinging to power and willing to be a little wilder, things might be more fun without the admins having to come in to shake things up.  

Probably the reason that people focus on it is because someone actually has to. It's important for people to remember that these are player-run governments, and that the Divine aren't going to handle the mundane day to day crap, that's left to the players.

Talonia

There is no day-to-day crap, or at least, there doesn't have to be.  The only "crap" there is to deal with is self-created.  No one says you have to give out credits at certain intervals, or respond to citizenship applications a certain way or within a certain period of time, or have a well-defined system of enemying outsiders and charging them with certain crimes.  The Ambassador of a city could be so much more than a paper-pusher - it could be a proselytizer-in-chief in aligned cities, an established roleplayer with a penchant for conversions, for instance.  But people lack imagination and are constrained by what came before. 

Sewer systems do not actually carry waste, potholes do not develop in roads (and in fact, they need no maintenance at all save for special circumstances, like dragon attacks or raids), utility lines do not need to be maintained.  Stop treating Achaean government like it should be anything but really good roleplay facilitation, and we'll all have a better time.

Also, you should open leadership meetings and decisions up to more players (in the cities where this makes sense - Cyrene, Hashan, Ashtan, Eleusis, I'd say).  There's often a phenomenon where leaders of a city monopolize events or decision-making authority, and that means opportunities for meaningful personal moral self-examination and internal struggle are minimized.  Halos was right to start opening the floodgates to the Citadel after the Te'Serra died - the fewer rule at the top, the worse it goes if those leaders aren't truly fantastic at facilitating fun.  

Daklore

I don't have much to actually add, but I suppose I should actually add something.

Yes, yes, jokes about my icon being a baked good and me being Cyrenian aside; they're actually rather unrelated as shown in a previous post.

Most people will find that Daklore(when I'm actually paying attention), is rather anti-snuggle/anti-fun/anti-baked goods/anti-CIJ when it goes on around him. I have litterally had people b-p-whine and moan when I tell them to bugger off and go back to Hashan if they want to do X, Y, or Z(ed). Yes, Cyrene has problems at Centre Crossing with some people being rather openly silly and rather not very image friendly.

Get over it. Yes, it's a game. But let me remind outsiders: Cyrene is NOT under draconian law. We're not under tyrannical rule. The reason these things happen is because they have the democratic freedom to do these things... you know, kind of like in a democratic society such as the ones that exist in real life. Is this a good reason? Probably not. But that is one thing Cyrene has. Got a problem with it? Do what you'd do in real life, ask them to get a room or go somewhere private.

Respect as a tenant is both a problem, and yet not a problem, at the same time. It's one of those double-edged sword type of ideals, and I'd be more than happy to see it vanish as one of the reasons for Cyrene being Cyrene. I have seen it used as a weapon and a shield on a multitude of occassions, I've even spoken out against it(ICly, of course), and, I don't really back down when someone whines about me being disrespectful because I won't let them act like a child-like puppy prancing about. ... This has happened...

That Cyrene doesn't have a polarizing ideal, or factional stance, or anything, is kind of a lame reason to whine about Cyrene. Cyrene DOES have a polarizing ideal. We're xenophobic peace lovers. Why do you think we stay in the mountains and don't want to engage in combat? Read up on Cyrene. Cyrene was founded, originally, as a haven from the Shallam-Ashtan wars. I think we're living up to that premise fairly decently.

Yes, Cyrene could do with a bit more military back-bone and training... and hell, when the time comes, we usually -do- get it. Part of the lack of a military backbone is the fact that we're rarely raided--and when we are, it's overly excessive and anti-fun--which means, Cyrene is a peaceful nation that really doesn't fund its military(well, Cyrene "funds" her military, but it's the best correlation I can come up with).

Also... this is apparently a book... hey, I think it's partly a rant! ... And I don't think it flows together right.... par for course!

Cyrene doesn't need to be this head-turning faction, it doesn't need a change in idealogy(it however, does need a change in how most people(and most of them are already Cyrenian)perceive and live up to these ideals), nor does it need to suddenly become a polarized aligned faction. Cyrene is the place where everyone -wants- to get along with everyone else. That's part of the whole respect and toleration bit(that some people take way too far), and there's nothing wrong with being a city/state/country that actually -wants- to be friends with everyone else diplomatically.

So... quit whining about Cyrene, please. If you're a member and don't like how things are done, do something(yes, I know, you've heard this before. If you gave up, that's your problem for giving up in the face of adversity). If you're not a member and don't like how things are done, then bugger off. If you're not a member and you're just here to make lulz at Cyrene, well.... you can bugger off as well, but I think we can handle that.

If you're from Hashan; hello and welcome to the other-side of the "What's a _______" joke.

Verrucht

Talonia said:

Also, you should open leadership meetings and decisions up to more players (in the cities where this makes sense - Cyrene, Hashan, Ashtan, Eleusis, I'd say).  There's often a phenomenon where leaders of a city monopolize events or decision-making authority, and that means opportunities for meaningful personal moral self-examination and internal struggle are minimized. 

Actually Cyrene does this. Every other meeting is open to the citizenry, plus all citizen comments put forward at each meeting.  In my opinion, if people want to have more of a say that's very much up to them. We have multiple avenues for people to participate, but they often don't, or the participation turns into a circle-jerk of "I agree" neither of which are constructive.

As for the rest, I think we fundamentally disagree about the role of a government in Achaea. What you consider uninteresting, I consider part of a city being a well-oiled machine, and what you suggest doesn't really seem to fit into the framework of what Cyrene currently is.

Idelisa

@Talonia, one of the things that I find absolutely brilliant about Cyrene's leadership is shit gets DONE. They have weekly Senate meetings (of course on a day when I can't play Achaea), where anyone that's a citizen can come in and suggest a change and change ACTUALLY HAPPENS.  

Living in a city like Eleusis makes me appreciate how awesome it is to see leadership (Cyrene) that's actually willing to say, "Sure, lets hear your side."  There is no making a suggestion to someone and it getting lost, it's said in public and voted on then shared with the whole city to see.  The dynamic is entirely different, and if you get involved you cannot help but feel like you're a part of a big family.  

Carry on.

Idelisa

Daklore said:

I don't have much to actually add....

...664 word book later.

I know I teased you about your muffin icon, and I will tease you about this, too but in all seriousness I've had nothing but good experiences with you, and so many people here... and there's other people I'd like to put out of my misery.

I know that this is a sensitive subject for a lot of people - people like @Melodie, @Verrucht, @Rinzai and @Velyse and so many others who pour their hearts and time into making Cyrene a better place.

The unfortunate thing in life, however, is that perception is usually people's reality.  There are literally people in Cyrene (That I'm related to, no less) that I avoid because they are so full of sugary sweet hyperness that I feel like I'm getting cavities IRL.  Then there are others, like @Nim who protect bunnies and love sweets but she's anything from hyper and she's fantastic at RP and combat and is very contemplative. You would never know those things about her unless you RPed a bit more intimately than just an encounter at CC.  There are more people than I can begin to mention that have really solid RP.  

But come hang out at CC and you won't see Nim, although she's there she'll be dwarfed by the snuggle attacks. 

One thing that I think further hurts the image from within the city (or other organizations) is the extended communication.  I hate it.  With a passion.   Try to do a KoTH because it looks like there's 30 people around when in reality there's only a handful and everyone else in on a boat, up north, or on an island.  So I've seen more than one cultural aide get  frustrated (even more than before extended communication) and downright give up because it's impossible to get people involved when it looks like so many are around.  

I head the events department in the Sylvanic fellowship, the position with the highest turnover rate in the House.  From what limited experience I've had, the mix of people within Cyrene is really no different than anywhere else.  You have achievers, people that are full of themselves, backstabbers, and great RPer's but more than that you have mostly people that just wanna do their own thing and get left along.    

My alt entered a limerick contest in Cyrene and I was told I'd probably win cause nobody else was entering.  I tried to do a limerick contest for the Sylvanic fellowship and I literally have to ask each person individually to get people involved, despite a post and 3 different credit prizes.  It's extremely frustrating when you are trying to rally people for a cause, or activity, but... well, that's just how it goes.

On top of it, lots of the people that go to Cyrene are because they WANT a simple, peaceful existence to just do what they want and not have to participate.

tl;dr - There's good people and bad people everywhere.  Also, get rid of extended communications, damnit!

Asmodron

people people, it is called "Leave a Comment" not "Leave your memoirs", Feels like im reading highschool essays O.o.

Daklore

When you start a thread about Cyrene, or read a thread about Cyrene, you should be prepared to read books. There's a reason why Cyrenians are usually listed in the bardic winners/runnerups/mentions.

Melodie

Wow, this thread exploded while I slept. Suppose I should have expected that!

To everyone's back and forth about respect being a core ideal - I understand it's a double-edged sword. Lived it for years. I feel like respect should be replaced with something similar to "good common sense", but sounds better. It's okay to disagree with each other, it's okay to have a healthy debate, it's not okay to spy on citizens, it's not okay to outright insult someone, etc etc. I still think respect should be apart of the culture, just not so much a focus. @Verrucht is right when he says it's not been -as- big of a problem as it was in the past. The debate about Selene's realm (obviously before the current event) is a great example. There was a huge difference in opinions between people on that, and was actually very interesting to hear/talk about. I'm sad I wasn't there for it. Debates are good and healthy for a neutral-ish city like Cyrene - it keeps us sharp.

I also agree with @Aerek, @Iocun, @Verrucht and a couple of others on not needing to be a polar faction. It's good to have something to drive us, mind you, but we don't need Good, Nature, Evil and so on to do so. The fact we can have a city where there's those like the Kindred, who are a mostly neutral org that focuses on a lot of Lupine ideals, and then have the Lumeni, who follow the Light, and we actually (usually) get along is interesting. We clash sometimes, but that makes for something interesting.

Now for @Verrucht and @Aerek being on opposite sides of the idea of government and RP - God, why am I always directly between you two? - I think it's a balancing game of equilibrium, where you constantly have to shift (that was just for you Nerai). I do agree with @Verrucht in that a lot of the drama that can come of these events are -such- a headache, as a leader, at times. It's also, for me, very draining, simply because of who I am as a person - empathy can be such a -, sometimes. -However-, that said, @Aerek is right in that creating a story is a big purpose of playing Achaea, and we as leaders should be trying to do that on occasion. I'm not going to comment on the Citadel missive thing because I was right in the middle of ALL of that, and I personally had plenty to deal with in that situation that I honestly did not want to go further with it. But, I also ended up handling large parts by myself, or with a few people. I also ended up getting chided a lot on a lot of sides because of it - I cannot think of a single, more draining RP situation that I ever dealt with. I literally had to take a break for a week and only log in occasionally just because of that. The leaders are always to blame, remember, so we end up getting the most crap because of any kind of conflict/issue/etc, -even- if it helps tell a story and is interesting. Just something to keep in mind.

About the affection and so on - I really have absolutely no problem with people being affectionate. My issue is the public displays of affection, because it can really get overboard. Anyone who interacts with me on a daily basis will see me peck the cheek of people I know in public - that's usually as far as I take it in places like Centre Crossing and etc, and even there, I try to keep it limited. What people do off the main streets, I couldn't care less about. Mel has a text-family that she takes care of, and affection is apart of the role. But nibblekissing, snuggling, licking, passionate kisses that we can actually see your tongue through - these are not appropriate to perform in front of strangers. It makes you feel uncomfortable in real life, and it should make you feel uncomfortable to do at CC, too. Beyond this, there are varying degrees of what people are comfortable with doing in public, and that's okay, I don't want to debate that, because if we do, it'll never stop.

Government transparency - Like @Verrucht stated, we do this already. Every other meeting is open, and if we cancel a meeting, we always have open meetings to take up for it. It can be very, very difficult to run an open meeting (both Chryseas and Verrucht are amazing at it), but more often than not, we have people who show up and... afk through the whole thing. Why show up if you're not going to contribute, at all, and not even offer anything to the meeting? I don't get it. But anyway, that ties back into apathy and all of that.

I think everything else got answered by someone at some point.

Edit: Clarity. Also, sorry for no tl;dr, there really is no way to do that when it comes to these kinds of posts.

Asmodron

^

The Pain!!!

Melodie

You're not forced to read and discuss here if you don't wish to.

Sherazad

Melodie said:

You're not forced to read and discuss here if you don't wish to.

RESPECT THIS THREAD OR GTFO! >(

Daklore

Sherazad said:

Melodie said:

You're not forced to read and discuss here if you don't wish to.

RESPECT THIS THREAD OR GTFO! >(

SURROUNDED BY GUMDROPS AND LOLLIPOPS.

Barrons

Okay. I'll vent.

From my perspective, part of what discourages me from getting involved in role-play with others in the city is the attitude of most of the people I meet. And that's odd for a city that rants about respect. Some are even rude while telling you to be respectful. It's gotten so bad I hate even talking on CT. You never know when you're going to say something that's going to get some uptight, self-important jerk jumping down your throat.

Now, sure, I know Barrons sometimes pushes the limits when it comes to his humor but even when he's being completely serious he's been verbally attacked by total strangers. The people in the city of Cyrene are so friggin touchy and quick to get offended that I've had to just turn and walk away at times even when it's made me look childish to do so. As far as I'm concerned, snarking on people for no reason is as bad and illogical as far as roleplay goes as not roleplaying with people at all.

The only thing that's kept me in Cyrene is an inability to see how I could fit this character into another city and the somewhat decent rp available with the Kindred. Otherwise... some people need to realize that they're actually creating a hostile environment and discouraging interaction and role-play. These people really should get over themselves.

There are my two cents, I'm done.

Rinzai

As for extended communication, I adore it so so much because I can sail forever, be away from Snuggletopia and still help people, sure I can't join a KoTH, but you know what, if I was sailing before I wouldn't have least this way I can still help.

But if a KoTH was just started up with out asking who wants in, it will probably fail. Often times it takes a while to get people interested, because I would sail back if I wanted to join up and probably make it, or maybe if I could convince a FFA instead or something.

A lot of the problems are expectation and communication, like everything in life. oh and booze.

Melodie

@Barrons While I can understand partly where you're coming from, you also handed out panties via your homunculus, which um. Presents a bad image.

Edit: To be slightly more constructive, if you have problems IG with people, you can always talk with someone, and we'll try to work with you. I'm going to -assume- the uptight issue isn't directed at me, since you've never said anything to me.

Verrucht

Melodie said:

@Barrons While I can understand partly where you're coming from, you also handed out panties via your homunculus, which um. Presents a bad image. Edit: To be slightly more constructive, if you have problems IG with people, you can always talk with someone, and we'll try to work with you. I'm going to -assume- the uptight issue isn't directed at me, since you've never said anything to me.

 Honestly, I assumed it was about me, since I gave Barrons a bit of a talkin' to, but that's also hilarious to anyone who actually knows Verrucht.

Barrons

Aww it wasn't about either of you. I like you two. I don't mind a scolding when I deserve it.

But just for the record, not only was the panty thing not my idea but another cyrenian supplied the panties. I was actually playfully threatened if I didn't agree to go along and it was freakin funny anyway. To me and several others anyway. But... Lesson learned!

I love Verrucht. And Phaestus...even though I'm pretty sure he despises me lol.