Classleads

Dunn

Not to mention stance swapping screws with all the break values too... hated that about BM. 

Atalkez

Also you've lost some functionality here as well. Since flamedfist is tied to Arash, now you can't negate rebounding without taking a subpar speed stance and increased damage. So there goes using flamefist in Thyr to try the pommel stack attack, since Arash sucks for accuracy and speed.

You also can't airfist to bypass Parry while in Mir anymore va knights. Now you're stuck in Thyr if you want to use it.

Feel like BM just took a massive hit to flexibility of the class. Not a fan currently, I'll need to dig more.

Dunn

I think you can still do them stand alone without being in the stance. Just need to be in the appropriate stance to couple it with a slash, no?

Atalkez

It's a solid change for group but at face value I feel like it's a pretty big nerf to 1v1.

Minifie

Dunn said:

I think you can still do them stand alone without being in the stance. Just need to be in the appropriate stance to couple it with a slash, no?

This is how I read it, just lets you combo a little more fluid.

Atalkez

Oh I read it as being tied purely to that.

So you can use it normally without any other issues? Like I said I needed to dig more.

Minifie

Atalkez said:

Oh I read it as being tied purely to that.

So you can use it normally without any other issues? Like I said I needed to dig more.

The way the sentence is structured is that you CAN use it following a two-arts slash, but only if you are in the relevant stance to allow it, so I would assume you can still fist seperately in any stance, but to combo it with a TA slash you must be in the right stance.

otherwise surely it would have "you may only perform (fists) after performing a two-arts slash and while in the relevant stance". I could be wrong, but just seems like a minor convenience buff for group combat.

edit: if you are right it's a painful nerf for some modicum (depending on arties) buff to group combat, I don't think it is a warrented nerf for it.

Cailan

So glad I can delete my super buggy gmcp crucible script now

Exelethril

The stay in Mir/airfist slow prep/limbprobe strat works p well against knights, since you won't die to < 22 str DWC disembowels

Farrah

You know people can die to DSBs without it being a one-shot from full, right?

Exelethril

Yeah but super tanky bms that run/fly before getting locked are a thing

Mizik

Dat Arash perma mangle no rebounding, tho

Kenway

Mizik said:

Dat Arash perma mangle no rebounding, tho

Shhhhhhhh let me have fun with it first 

Jhui

i don't get it. people can already be perma mangled.  it might give a little more margin for error.

this doesn't help with people that tumble out of/into room hinder.  Those are the only people that matter.  Everyone else dies the same.

Not that BM needs help with those things, just clarifying what this really means.

as for the other slash/fists.  They all require sacrificing something positive from the other stances to be able to do them.  Nothing OP about them at all.  If voidfist was comboable in thyr or arash, you might have a reason to be worried.

Aerek

Yeah, I think that change will be nice, but not really game breaking. It's not that BM can do anything now that they couldn't do before, it's just that it's slightly more convenient now, and slightly less telegraphed. Requiring the associated stances kinda took all the "OP" out of the change and just made it a streamlining thing.

Still, 1.1s Airfist is a nice thing.

Rom

Aerek said:

Still, 1.1s Airfist is a nice thing.

As you draw Relentless Icewyrm from its scabbard, you drive the pommel into Iakimen's chin.
Strike what, Warrior?
4752h, 5227m, 19045e, 20600w edb- 26 00:04:18.592
You have recovered balance on all limbs. (1.26s)
4752h, 5227m, 19045e, 20600w exdb- 26 00:04:19.852
As you draw Relentless Icewyrm from its scabbard, you drive the pommel into Iakimen's chin.
Freeing your mind to the unpredictable dance of the wind, you hurl a blow towards Iakimen.
4752h, 5227m, 19030e, 20600w edb- 11 00:04:21.936
You have recovered balance on all limbs. (2.798s)
4752h, 5227m, 19030e, 20600w exdb- 11 00:04:24.735

Legslash Iakimen ------------ LEFT
4752h, 5227m, 19060e, 20600w edb- 37 00:04:53.731
You have recovered balance on all limbs. (2.032s)
4752h, 5227m, 19060e, 20600w exdb- 37 00:04:55.763
Legslash Iakimen ------------ LEFT
Iakimen parries the attack with a deft manoeuvre.
Freeing your mind to the unpredictable dance of the wind, you hurl a blow towards Iakimen.
4752h, 5227m, 19030e, 20600w edb- 22 00:05:10.525
You have recovered balance on all limbs. (2.687s)
4752h, 5227m, 19030e, 20600w exdb- 22 00:05:13.212

Seems whenever you strike with a fist you will have the regular balance recovery time for fists.

Asmodron

Well yeah, you wont need to repeatedly cast a fist. They still have a good timer to them.

Aerek

Rom said:

Seems whenever you strike with a fist you will have the regular balance recovery time for fists.

Oh. Well in that case, this is a pretty small change. Hardly world-ending.

Synbios

Aerek said:

Rom said:

Seems whenever you strike with a fist you will have the regular balance recovery time for fists.

Oh. Well in that case, this is a pretty small change. Hardly world-ending.

I don't know...it's still a very convenient change. Even with the added 1-ish second balance difference, you can still continue prepping/pressing your damage pressure.

Aerek

Likely intentional, to avoid the powerful possibilities that we first imagined, but I'd say that given the stance restrictions, that seems a little extra conservative. I'm not going to switch into Mir or Sanya just to chain a fist with a slowed-down slash. Airfist in Thyr and Flamefist in Arash will see some use, but past that the change is much more benign than we'd feared/hoped. 

Makarios

Its intentional. We'll see how this goes then go from there.

Armali

It's great QoL just for raze/fist, imo.

Asmodron

Xaden said:

* When you pull someone out of PHASE with an EYE sigil, they will now be knocked off balance.

Something I was considering. Doesnt this mean that every shop keeper, or private home owner, or whathaveyou, can now completely nullify anyone following them into a location by throwing an eye sigil every time?


Before, while it was possible to detect someone, it still didnt cancel the follow, and people were generally lax about throwing and checking. Now...they can just have an alias to constantly throw an eye sigil before entering, and they can be sure the serpent cant follow because they are off-balance.

Tahquil

... If that shopkeeper or home owner knows how to fight , yes. 

Mostly I see this as pulling the serrp out of phase then standing together awkwardly for a while as the shopkeeper tries to bluster and bully the serpent as they wat for the city to be alerted and form a party to come deal with it if they combatants care.

Aegoth

Or the shopkeeper dies, since throwing an eye sigil is an aggressive action towards the serpent, and the serpent goes home with a trophy.

Ahmet

@Tahquil hes saying, now that eye knocks off balance, you can just add throw eye to the start of your commands to enter wherever and you dont even have to verify that it didnt catch anyone. They cant follow because theyre off balance.

Atalkez

So how is that an issue?

If they throw the eye to begin with, how often will they continue inside after revealing someone? My bet is extremely extremely low.

Ahmet

It's very rare, but it happens. The mild heart attacks these moments induce are really quite enjoyable, after the fact. The issue is that the person being followed can make it mechanically impossible for a phased person to follow them without any thought whatsoever, which wasn't something that was available previously (without some serious drawbacks, and only available to a small number of classes). 

ETA: Not to mention, no more leaving room to wait for eye sigil and then entering/following afterwards, since there's no drawback to doing it all at once.

Aerek

Serpents: "Shop theft is preventable if you take precautions."
Shopkeepers: "Ok, we'll take necessary precautions."
Serpents: "Shop theft precautions are OP."

Atalkez

Ahmet said:

It's very rare, but it happens. The mild heart attacks these moments induce are really quite enjoyable, after the fact. The issue is that the person being followed can make it mechanically impossible for a phased person to follow them without any thought whatsoever, which wasn't something that was available previously (without some serious drawbacks, and only available to a small number of classes). 

ETA: Not to mention, no more leaving room to wait for eye sigil and then entering/following afterwards, since there's no drawback to doing it all at once.

Feel like this is a better route than previous.

If they take the time to throw and eye, they shouldn't have to worry about extra tiny factors like a serpent walking in and following afterwards, imo. If they take the time to throw and eye, then they're obviously conscientious of security.

Not seeing why this action being removed is somehow unfair to anyone.