Classleads

Rangor

starburst flask needs to cancel out starburst tattoos or something like that so we're back to 1 starburst each person. self-resurrection should be limited to once every 5 minutes (sure, you can have two gems, class rezz, whatever rezz, devo rezz, soulrezz, puppet rezz, but you have to spread them out over 5 minutes.)

Xaden

As someone who relies solely on Burst / Inked burst in these situations I really don't understand why everyone gets their knickers in a twist over it. 

I've long since accepted as a fact of life that some people are just gonna have more arte's than me.

Kiet

ok let's just not bother balancing anything at all then, sounds good xaden.

Hataru

Ugh, Xaden stop. You're making me agree with Rangor and that's just not right man. How are you not getting this? Everyone gets that maybe there should be some limit, apprently except you.

Xaden

The only limit I'd consider 'balancing' would be removing one Gem from that sequence.

If you start limiting bursts then you put MORE emphasis on the artefacts because bursts are available to everybody and the artefact is only available to those that can afford it.

There's already a limit on all forms of external resurrection, as has already been pointed out.

So take your sarcasm, Kiet, and shove it up your hole.

Reyson

Years and years ago, I remember conversations about veils and gems, and how it was okay because not many people had them. Now, I constantly hear how people don't know how many people other teams have because of veils and gems!

Kiet's pretty right about this- just because only a handful of people can do it right now, doesn't mean that'll always be the case. As people rack up money via bashing/elite/purchases, bad balances only become more and more pronounced, so the fact that only a couple people have a problematic combination of abilities/artefacts is a pretty bad argument against doing something about it.

Hataru

Xaden, Rangor's idea was to make it so burst/burst arties were on the same cooldown. That is actually limiting the artie as well. Which still makes the artie worth it cause, I mean, screw inking amirite?

Antonius

Hataru said:

Hataru said:

I'm just trying to point out that Fred doesn't really seem to know how Necromancy works and is making arguments based off really off base assumptions about our skills[...]

@Antonius

Thanks for pointing out something that is irrelevant to my point. My point was literally that Fredrich knows nothing about Necromancy and should maybe look into the skills and their cooldowns, which he admitted to not knowing, before talking big and bad about them.

I literally even also said I'm not saying Dev-rezz is a fix all for you guys, so idk why out of everyone you're coming at me, instead of like idk the everyone else that's pretending it is or people actually calling for cooldowns.

I'm not "coming at" you. I'm pointing out that, despite not knowing the specifics of how things actually work, Frederich's point (his actual point, not the one you thought he was making by missing part of it out) is still valid.

Your response - in fact, both of your responses - was essentially "I wouldn't trade soulcage for resurrection." That's not what was being said at all, since Alchemist has the ability to resurrect. "I'd rather have Soulcage + Vengeance + Alchemist rezz than Alchemist rezz + Devotion rezz" seems like a pretty sane idea, personally. The cooldown of Soulcage means it can only be used infrequently, but it's still worth having.

If you don't think that's a relevant response to your posts, I'm more than happy to agree to disagree and drop this.

Telendrieth said:

Man, reading some of the classleads.. I feel like @Makarios is going to just close them with an announce post of "Well, it was good while it lasted. We're going to be using the ever kind and eternally mature ideas from the forums from now on. kthxbye."

I'm guessing you and @Dochitha have never read classleads before? People are acting like this is worse than any other round of classleads, which is definitely not the case.

Makarios

I already know what we're doing regarding the resurrection situation, as a note.

Xias

There are pros and cons to limiting the number of resurrections I feel.

If you limit the number, you do get a more even balance of power which makes each life really matter or count. WoW did this in raids to prevent class stacking for rezzs and to take away a degree of zerging a boss during a fight.

However, by limiting the number, I feel you devalue artefacts or powers that do rezz. I'd be a bit miffed if I invested in two or three items or class skills that offer rezz and then the limit was dropped to two. I could just use burst tats for that.

I haven't experienced that many classes and I've never touched a Gem, so my knowledge is very limited. Personally, if the powers are there for you to use, why wouldn't you?

Should there be a small rezz sickness/cool down? Maybe. Perhaps a temporary debuff that stacks, diminishing damage and health after a large number of deaths in a short period? Risk vs reward--rezz a large number of times at reduced capacity or embrace, lose time, but be at full power.

Kiet

Of course you devalue artefacts, that's the point. It was the point of not making 19 str axks one shot from full str, too, and a whole slew of other balance changes.

Makarios

I don't see any harm in posting the plan here, so:

- Eye sigils shall prevent resurrecting in a room (self currently, may expand this to all forms but I feel that is most likely unnecessary at this stage). Starburst is not included in this, obviously.
- It will no longer be possible to leave a room with an eye sigil as a soul, similar to how it is currently not possible to enter one.
- X seconds after death in a room with an eye sigil (tentative value is currently 5, though I am still pondering this particular part) a person will be forced to embrace if an eye sigil is still present. Alternatives to this may be extreme speedups of the mana drain as a soul if an eye sigil is present, etc.

The idea here is less to nerf self resurrection mechanics and more to add counters, as I feel that is the crux of the issue: once someone is dead there is currently no way to prevent the resurrection from happening. Obviously, someone could remove the eye sigil in the window to try to let their hero reenter the battle. I am currently considering if trying to rez yourself and hitting an eye sigil would force embrace to prevent spamming, but am not particularly happy with that solution so will be considering that aspect some more. A rez cap is a final resort with something like this, I feel that it is a fairly bland fix to something that can be solved in some ways to add some depth.

I am also going to state for people's peace of mind that we have some other changes that will mitigate this slightly (I actually rejected a report back in January or April because of them), which you can expect to see some time before 2018.

Antonius

There's a difference between reducing their value and (almost) removing their value, though. 19 strength axekick may not be as powerful as it used to be, but there's still a difference between a 12 strength axekick and a 19 strength one. A lot of the proposed solutions are much closer to doing the latter than the former.

Aralaya

Regarding the non rez thing, does that include Depthswalker Rebirth or just other players doing like, Devotion Rez or Alchemist or something like that.

Melodie

Rezz op man.

Aralaya

Problem: Resurrection is too OP, pls Nerf

Solution #1: Delete Farrah
Solution #2: All deaths are permanent
Solution #3: Delete Mhaldor

Itkovian

Aralaya said:

Regarding the non rez thing, does that include Depthswalker Rebirth or just other players doing like, Devotion Rez or Alchemist or something like that.

I believe Makarios specifically wrote that this is for self-rez abilities, not including Starburst. He may expand it to include any rez within the room, though overall that impact will be minimal for any corpse-rez, since for those it's relatively trivial for the rezzer to mushroom the eye sigil.

The main impact will be for the Gem, and any self-rez abilities like Rebirth. In short, if you're a soul, you cannot rez yourself if standing on an eyesigil.

Aralaya

Aww. That makes rebirth largely useless now, since everyone's gonna start dropping eye sigils

Xaden

Hey...

Guess how many rez's I go in that entire crusade?

One.

Back on plane.

Austere

Oh fun, another artie to regret buying, I guess.  Second gem, it was fun while it lasted. 

Torinn

I always thought it was silly you could get more than one.

Makarios

Austere said:

Oh fun, another artie to regret buying, I guess.  Second gem, it was fun while it lasted. 

I do feel this is a bit of an exaggeration - the functionality will remain, people will just have options to counter it, and will almost certainly fail to do so a good deal of the time.

That said I'm fine with looking at the gem to retain some value if the concensus is its no longer a worthwhile investment, but that'll be something we discuss after classleads close.

Klendathu

Problem: Makarios keeps trying to balance things
Solution #1: Delete Farrah
Solution #2: Delete Mhaldor
Solution #3: Keg party!

Farrah

Aralaya said:

Problem: Resurrection is too OP, pls Nerf

Solution #1: Delete Farrah
Solution #2: All deaths are permanent
Solution #3: Delete Mhaldor

Klendathu said:

Problem: Makarios keeps trying to balance things
Solution #1: Delete Farrah
Solution #2: Delete Mhaldor
Solution #3: Keg party!

Report #199

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Submitted by: Anonymous      Status      : Submitted

Skill       : Misc       Ability     : Misc

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Problem:

Farrah, once again, has failed to be addressed in more recent classlead rounds. Everything she 
does is overpowered to the point of ridiculousness. It's unreasonable that she takes abilities and
buffs that are open to absolutely everyone and uses them better than anybody else. 

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Solution #1:

Limit Farrah to one engagement per serenade, or per IG month.

Solution #2:
Provide each city with their own factional Farrah.

Solution #3:
Delete Mhaldor. 

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I'm beginning to think I'm not going to survive this round.

It was nice knowing you all.

Klendathu

It's OK, we've got Farah in the Consortium now. You won't be missed

Aralaya

Farrah gets deleted.
Welcome your new citizen, Farrrah!

Nicola

We're going to have to put Farrah in OP Protection at this rate! New name, new custom artefacts, new order, and ask that she tone down all strats so as not to reveal her identity.

Exxia

solution: Delete Mhaldor

Fitz

Who cares about Farrah, where's all the love for the artefact waders idea.

Atalkez

I actually really dislike the idea. We added currents to rivers so they seemed more realistic, not so we could turn around and release yet another 'buy and forget' artefact.

If the currents aren't popular, we may as well remove them, instead of pushing another artefact at people. It's getting old imo!