Shrine Phase 3/Crusades - Final Form!

Cailan

Something that hasn't been mentioned that I think plays an important role is experience/exposure, which is related to diligence but not really. The so called top tier fighters have literally years of experience under their belt. A lot of being a decent or better PKer is just going out and getting your ass kicked and figuring out why and what to do better. Especially for specific class tricks that require unorthodox curing priorities and whatnot in order for survival.

And ask questions. Especially the stupid ones. @Farrah @Karren deal with my ridiculously newbish questions daily.

Kiskan

Daeir said:

Atalkez was forged in the crucible of grief, like every other good fighter. Giving no fucks about dying or loss in general is how you win.

For the people saying "they have years of experience" about some of the top tier, that's true actually.  And they've also been on top for most of those years.  So pretty early on, they were able to get to the top and stay there ever since.   

The essential truth of a "crucible of grief" culture is very different than a "keep trying to get better" culture.  The first might have some aspects of a "keep trying to get better" culture (like people willing to give tips) but it's a whole different attitude. 

A crucible of grief culture says "if I can make it, and become part of that top tier, it was obviously ALL my hard work, you're all just lazy cowards who need to keep getting owned more", except... people are always bragging about how "easy" something or other was for them to master in the first place, while others continue to struggle with basics.  Except in a situation like right now, where the talent aspect is sort of being called on the carpet, in a way.  And even if they don't brag, the sheer ease with which they progress is usually apparent.  Yeah, they get owned in the beginning, but they are able to keep progressing without ever really getting "stuck" (for long) the way most people do.  That is talent.

But most importantly, the other side of that coin is that if you don't have the talent to eventually be a true competitor in a "crucible of grief", but you keep going back for more, you're basically a sucker.  Because that system ultimately views everyone who isn't top tier or going to BECOME top tier as disposable.

Ryzeth

Please stop.

Bann

As someone who's been a top-tier fighter in two games besides Achaea, I don't agree with you at all, @Kiskan. Not even a little bit. Your view is so warped and twisted that my tiny, black warrior's heart actually feels a little pity for you.

Dunn

PHASE

R u doin it wrong?

Farrah

We don't even have a "crucible of grief." All combat is optional and you can largely use arena spars and combat rankings to learn if you don't want to actually die.

If you want to do group combat, all you have to do is accept the combat culture that comes with it. You don't have to be top tier or be "griefed." Like, if you help kill Proficy, know that you're going to be considered by him to "owe" him a death. As long as you don't care about that death, there's not really any harm or anything following you around eternally.

The softies like me don't even collect that death, unless there's a writ, bounty, or contract on you over it. But worst case is pretty much one death after everything.

Coamenel

Farrah said:

We don't even have a "crucible of grief." All combat is optional and you can largely use arena spars and combat rankings to learn if you don't want to actually die.

If you want to do group combat, all you have to do is accept the combat culture that comes with it. You don't have to be top tier or be "griefed." Like, if you help kill Proficy, know that you're going to be considered by him to "owe" him a death. As long as you don't care about that death, there's not really any harm or anything following you around eternally.

The softies like me don't even collect that death, unless there's a writ, bounty, or contract on you over it. But worst case is pretty much one death after everything.

Ah so that's why he loljumped me the other day!  

Nazihk

Farrah said:

If you want to do group combat, all you have to do is accept the combat culture that comes with it. You don't have to be top tier or be "griefed." Like, if you help kill Proficy, know that you're going to be considered by him to "owe" him a death. As long as you don't care about that death, there's not really any harm or anything following you around eternally.

And if you accept this fact and just challenge him to a straight up 1v1 over it you'll probably resolve it in under 5 minutes and then you can go about your merry way. 

Kenway

Can confirm. My SC 3 lists like 90 something kills but I'm pretty sure everyone is aware that it's mostly due to me living in the arena and my kills including arena probably approach 2k

Jarrel

You just need a logical approach to your offense to be top tier. I break my attacks into time based tables with afflictions and match it to a time based opposing cures and flow chart it. Once I figure out what can work, then you put it into practice on afk people or you ask them if you can 'test' till they die lulz. Then you go and put it into practice in the real world.

Dunn

Are you attacking people irl Jarrel??????? 

Prythe

Dunn said:

Are you attacking people irl Jarrel??????? 

Only if they are afk, I think.

(IRL afk = looking down at cell phone while world moves around you.)

Jarrel

Ofcourse I am, I am a dentist, every single day is a vicious assault on someone's oral cavity. And I get paid to do it.

Dunn

Are you alting? I miss your sass. 

Asmodron

Reviving this for a moment.

Could we perhaps have a way to access Nishnatoba during a Crusade, without the need of having an order member on prime to do so?


It can be a bit frustrating either waiting for an order member to wake up or requiring one to have to jump back on prime to haul the asses of those that woke up/returned from halls.


The landing spot could be the portal location in Nish, or some other generic spot up there.


Ideas of how this could be made possible:

1. When a crusade starts, a portal opens at the Shrine of Ascension, of which any can enter to access Nish

2. When a crusade starts, one can go to the shrine of ascension and put in some command (Let us say TRANSCEND NISHNATOBA) which will begin a 10 second channel from them to be transported to nish

3. New small artifact that will allow one to enter Nish from their location during a crusade, after a small channel.

4. Go to Tomacula and touch the statue of Khalas to be transported (Would be wrong if I didnt include this somehow)

Sarathai

I like the limitation that it requires an Order member to access it. Yes, in some cases you'll have to send somebody back to the main plane to fetch people if they die and need to embrace (Eleusis had that issue in the crusade that just happened now), but that's also just part of strategy. It also encourages people to watch for the pillars etc. to see who's coming and going and keep track of who's going where in the area.

Mathilda

The limitations of Crusading (and anything shrine-related, to be honest) are just more felt in Hashan, due to the nature of Twilight's Order.

Frederich

Ashtan has.. 2 people who can drop you in there.
Hashan has... 3-4 people who can.
Targossas has like 15+ people who can.
Mhaldor has 4-5 people (?)
Eleusis has 9-10 people, if not more.

It's mostly an issue with cities that have dual divine that cause people to want to join an order.

Sarathai

Frederich said:

Ashtan has.. 2 people who can drop you in there.
Hashan has... 3-4 people who can.
Targossas has like 15+ people who can.
Mhaldor has 4-5 people (?)
Eleusis has 9-10 people, if not more.

Targ probably has the most by a massive margin, since last I was told Aurora's order has 20+ people in it.

Ashtan also has the Aegis order members and so on, though. It's not just city patrons.

Frederich

I originally did it by order (babel went there).

Aegis' order also applies to Hashan, Eleusis, and Ashtan, at that point then.  Increasing their numbers.

Asmodron

Yes. Because it is based on orders, it comes down to the players in orgs and the membership there. The membership itself would be based on several things, from divine activity (which is the case in Ashtan and Babel), to org rp devotion (such as Mhaldor's vs Hashan), to simply personal rp.


It would make it more balanced to add 1 equal way for any to get up there.

Taryius

I completely understand the point here, and I agree. This last crusade, I really wanted to go participate in the bloodshed but there were no order members around to get me, or anyone else in. Essence gathering is already gated behind Order members, so you wouldn't see any more people scrambling about to steal or sneak some essence to their shrine than you see now. Just more bloodshed, and I'm all for that.

(On second thought, I get some people don't want more fighting but if you're going on a Crusade odds are you enjoy fighting and adding more of risk makes the reward all the better)

Klendathu

Frederich said:

I originally did it by order (babel went there).

Aegis' order also applies to Hashan, Eleusis, and Ashtan, at that point then.  Increasing their numbers.

Ashtan also has a non-zero number of members of Vastar's order.

Caelan

Sarathai said:

Frederich said:

Ashtan has.. 2 people who can drop you in there.
Hashan has... 3-4 people who can.
Targossas has like 15+ people who can.
Mhaldor has 4-5 people (?)
Eleusis has 9-10 people, if not more.

Targ probably has the most by a massive margin, since last I was told Aurora's order has 20+ people in it.

Ashtan also has the Aegis order members and so on, though. It's not just city patrons.

There's a majority who are Eleusian, actually.  Well, at least half the order.  When they are here.

Shirszae

Could always just try to bribe people from other Orders into hauling you in there.

Armali

Nigh obscured in a sombre nebula, the Dragon Nicola dwells here.

She is a <color> Dragon, obscured in a shifting nebula of blackness. Squirming

restlessly across her entire form are serpentine coils of <color>, ambiguously

slithering beneath translucent scales and betraying the colour of her soul.

Colossal wings protrude from her body, extending perpetually with outreaching

shadows. Materialising and dissipating from head to tail, rows of inky spines

protrude menacingly along her back, promising pain to those unfortunate enough

to make contact. Keen, obsidian eyes, sit above her long, flattened snout and

stare, unblinking, from her imposing visage.

Borran

Had a blast fighting in the Crusade this evening. Didn't realize it would be so much fun.

Honestly, I've very little clue what I'm doing, but Depthswalker makes it fun because it has so much group utility, I can find ways to be useful without always being in the melee. Though just straight Chrono Dooming people isn't working- I thought my teammates would be more hindery and I could snatch some free wins.

Valaria

Borran said:

Had a blast fighting in the Crusade this evening. Didn't realize it would be so much fun.

Honestly, I've very little clue what I'm doing, but Depthswalker makes it fun because it has so much group utility, I can find ways to be useful without always being in the melee. Though just straight Chrono Dooming people isn't working- I thought my teammates would be more hindery and I could snatch some free wins.

depthswalker is awesome. You will be able to fight all the more in the battle.

Tyamat

Daeir said:

Armali said:

Nigh obscured in a sombre nebula, the Dragon Nicola dwells here.

She is a <color> Dragon, obscured in a shifting nebula of blackness. Squirming

restlessly across her entire form are serpentine coils of <color>, ambiguously

slithering beneath translucent scales and betraying the colour of her soul.

Colossal wings protrude from her body, extending perpetually with outreaching

shadows. Materialising and dissipating from head to tail, rows of inky spines

protrude menacingly along her back, promising pain to those unfortunate enough

to make contact. Keen, obsidian eyes, sit above her long, flattened snout and

stare, unblinking, from her imposing visage.

Can.. can I be a Twilight person now?

Sure come talk to me

Twilight

Daeir said:

Armali said:

Nigh obscured in a sombre nebula, the Dragon Nicola dwells here.

She is a <color> Dragon, obscured in a shifting nebula of blackness. Squirming

restlessly across her entire form are serpentine coils of <color>, ambiguously

slithering beneath translucent scales and betraying the colour of her soul.

Colossal wings protrude from her body, extending perpetually with outreaching

shadows. Materialising and dissipating from head to tail, rows of inky spines

protrude menacingly along her back, promising pain to those unfortunate enough

to make contact. Keen, obsidian eyes, sit above her long, flattened snout and

stare, unblinking, from her imposing visage.

Can.. can I be a Twilight person now?