I really don't believe this is a big nerf to veils. At most it nerfs veil radiance and veil-dueling. Veils are a completely terrible artefact, though, so that's why people hate them. Even people with veils often hate them.
Re: Cyrene and PK. Cyrene doesn't really keep anything more than arena fighters, for reasons mentioned. The type of PKer that is attracted to Cyrene essentially wants either danger-free PK or wants the typical RPG chaotic-neutral freedom that they imagine the aligned cities would strip them of.
Right. So people can respond to why they don't like cities and stuff and you don't play mom to them, but I respond to the post about the change to veils and you're all over it. Cute!
My rave is for people who don't whine about artefacts. More power to you.
Whining and discussing balance aren't the same thing.
Not sure why the hostility. If you can't understand why attacking someone drops your 'hidden from everyone but ppl like me' for a short few seconds, then I think you're not understanding the problem!
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
I really don't believe this is a big nerf to veils. At most it nerfs veil radiance and veil-dueling. Veils are a completely terrible artefact, though, so that's why people hate them. Even people with veils often hate them.
Re: Cyrene and PK. Cyrene doesn't really keep anything more than arena fighters, for reasons mentioned. The type of PKer that is attracted to Cyrene essentially wants either danger-free PK or wants the typical RPG chaotic-neutral freedom that they imagine the aligned cities would strip them of.
Considering how you can't follow any other Divine but the city ones I'd say is less imagined and more of a fact. Not sure where the comment about danger-free pk comes from, though. Pretty sure most of the Cyrenian combatants I've seen would welcome more combat and danger, not less.
And sometimes people can like/enjoy combat and still have other priorities/ enjoy other things, much like @Aerek and the rest mentioned. Liking combat is not a flip switch that overrides everything else.
And you won't understand the cause of your grief...
It's an artefact that was intended to hide people, and it's bloody expensive at that. So... I just don't think it needed changing.
Also that went through before my forums caught up and @Daeir's post went through. So I will say this, I get that it's frustrating that people who have the means to dole out for things other people can't get the advantage. But that's really no different than RL. I don't have the money to go out and buy a Mercedes, instead I have a Honda nearly as old as I am that's on its last leg but it's still driving, and I get kinda envious of people who drive really nice cars, but c'est la vie.
I mean that's really what it's coming down to at this point isn't it? People getting upset because other people have the money they don't, or refuse to dish out for the same privileges.
In an effort to be understanding, I will say that I imagine if I were a more avid fighter, and if that's what did it for me in these games, I'd probably be more annoyed about the veil's mechanics too. But I'm looking at it from a completely different angle than those of you who get so uptight about them.
It still hides you. Unless you attack someone else And if you attack someone else then why would you want to hide? You want to kill someone at least give them the chance to fight back properly.
And you won't understand the cause of your grief...
I really don't believe this is a big nerf to veils. At most it nerfs veil radiance and veil-dueling. Veils are a completely terrible artefact, though, so that's why people hate them. Even people with veils often hate them.
Re: Cyrene and PK. Cyrene doesn't really keep anything more than arena fighters, for reasons mentioned. The type of PKer that is attracted to Cyrene essentially wants either danger-free PK or wants the typical RPG chaotic-neutral freedom that they imagine the aligned cities would strip them of.
Considering how you can't follow any other Divine but the city ones I'd say is less imagined and more of a fact. Not sure where the comment about danger-free pk comes from, though. Pretty sure most of the Cyrenian combatants I've seen would welcome more combat and danger, not less.
And sometimes people can like/enjoy combat and still have other priorities/ enjoy other things, much like @Aerek and the rest mentioned. Liking combat is not a flip switch that overrides everything else.
The order stuff is fair, but it's not like it's impossible to follow other orders, just hard. We still have people in other orders, and despite the fact we're (for some reason) being extra stringent on that right now, the point stands. Targ might be a different story, I suppose.
Considering raiding Targ often has like 70% of their qw sit out, I don't see much validity to 'but I like other things than combat, too!' Even in Mhaldor not everyone always defends, and, realistically, how often do you think raids even happen? Unless you're Hashani + unlucky there's no situation where you'll be raided every day you're online.
The idea that Targ and Mhaldor aren't for people who enjoy things other than combat is frankly pretty insulting to all the people in those cities that stand out for things completely unrelated to combat. Both cities have some stellar players that wouldn't know how to pk a potato.
I was more referencing the idea of 'Combat people should just leave Cyrene and go over to x' Not really judging whether you can or can't do anything but combat in any other city. Just that sometimes combat is not the end-all, be-all that define someone's character.
And you won't understand the cause of your grief...
Since joining Mhaldor I will say I have a newfound appreciation for Cyrene. It's kind of sad that it happened backwards.
When I was part of Cyrene and the Shield I got really tired of getting yelled at if, heaven forbid, I accidentally practiced something real quick and was too far away from the Tiltyard and arena. It was exhausting feeling like the rest of the city loathed the Shield and blamed them for any hint of a possibility hostility would visit the city. And, sometimes I was just bored. I don't really like raiding or getting raided on a daily basis, but not getting raided/raiding at all was just dull. But, Cyrene had a lot of great things going for it too, like the neutrality factor that people have mentioned. It was pretty awesome to be able to go to any city, and not have anyone think twice about you being there (minus Mhaldor and their stingy martial law :P ).
I will say though, that just because someone is playing in Mhaldor or Targossas, does not mean that they immediately have to be a zealot. Sure, the ideals require more knee-bending, as it were, but really that doesn't mean that every character that plays in one of those two cities actually RPs being a zealot. I think there are a fair few Mhaldorians and Targossians that are kind of casual in their attitudes.
Mhaldor doesn't require everyone to defend or actively raid, but there is a bit of pressure there to do so, and those that do are obviously more favored than those that don't. Not sure if it's the same way in Targ or not, at this point.
There are a lot of days, on an OOC enjoyment level, that I would go back to Cyrene in a heartbeat just to have that simplicity back.
Maybe that's why Hashan is so big at the moment. I can go anywhere I want pretty much (except Mhaldor), but we get raided and no one yells at you if you accidentally kill someone in the middle of the city. Perhaps people have caught on?
I don't define my character by combat. But if I like to do combat 50% of the time, I'm not going to join a city that doesn't do any. What I want to do the other 50% might determine which of the 5 combat cities I join.
Whatever the case, the comment was made half-jokingly.
It's not immunity at all. Finding someone who is veiled is pretty easy given that any other player with a veil can find a veiled player, and there are a lot of us.
Finding someone who is veiled, in the middle of a 1v1, or while phased, or on Meropis/ferryisland/farnorth/whatever, etc, especially when time is of the essence and they're trying to flee, or follow you, or hide, is pretty much immunity to any sort of effective tracking. It offers you the ability to choose when and where the conflict happens, so you pretty much always have the home-field advantage, and have nearly full control over whether or not such conflict takes place for more than a second or two.
Seems pretty broken to me. *shrug*
ETA: A city improvement to disable the use of veils for city enemies/non-citizens/everyone within city limits (tuneable by minister) would be pretty great, tbh. Maybe use some of that now-worthless ice that everybody's mining.
Mhaldor doesn't require everyone to defend or actively raid, but there is a bit of pressure there to do so, and those that do are obviously more favored than those that don't. Not sure if it's the same way in Targ or not, at this point.
Officially, raid defense is required from everybody in Targossas, but it's not exactly enforced. In terms of offense, participation in at least some offensive actions is required if you're a soldier, but the solution there is pretty simple: don't join the army if you don't want to actually be part of the army.
Mhaldor requires every citizen to join the army. It's not an option. So it's kind of skewed how things are right now. But Mhaldor is pretty broken at the moment, so I don't know.
In games like this it's hard to really have anywhere that is going to 100% appease every player, so I guess we go where we think we'll at least enjoy 90% of what's offered? I can't say that's the case for me right now. I think I'm more around the 30% enjoyment mark in Mhaldor, but I also don't have the energy to org hop because that starts to be a big deal to other people and then reputations start building and "ain't nobody got time for that".
Or, maybe I'm just a really old IRE grumpy player at this point lol. After 15 years or so I'm just not sure what's fun to me any more. Well, that's not entirely true, I love shopkeeping and tradeskills and the busy work that a lot of people dislike, like gathering and harvesting and such, and I love RPing. But, currently I don't own a shop and I don't get much RP.
I've been a bit on the nostalgic side lately too, about things that I used to really love about IRE that don't seem to really be a part of it any more. Halp! I need the magic back!
Maybe that's why Hashan is so big at the moment. I can go anywhere I want pretty much (except Mhaldor), but we get raided and no one yells at you if you accidentally kill someone in the middle of the city. Perhaps people have caught on?
Hashan's like - You wanna raid? Sure. Throw parties? Yep. Chill with friends and gaggles of creatures? also an option. Drunk fight on the streets? That's ok too. I love the chaotic neutral alignment of the city but Cyrene is better I think if people find raiding and defending all the time to be annoying. Sometimes, when we are being raided three times a month by different cities, newbies ask me if hashan is always like this and I can understand why some people prefer cyrene more.
Commission List: Aesi, Kenway, Shimi, Kythra, Trey, Sholen .... 5/5 CLOSED I will not draw them in the order that they are requested... rather in the order that I get inspiration/artist block.
Maybe that's why Hashan is so big at the moment. I can go anywhere I want pretty much (except Mhaldor), but we get raided and no one yells at you if you accidentally kill someone in the middle of the city. Perhaps people have caught on?
Hashan's like - You wanna raid? Sure. Throw parties? Yep. Chill with friends and gaggles of creatures? also an option. Drunk fight on the streets? That's ok too. I love the chaotic neutral alignment of the city but Cyrene is better I think if people find raiding and defending all the time to be annoying. Sometimes, when we are being raided three times a month by different cities, newbies ask me if hashan is always like this and I can understand why some people prefer cyrene more.
Cyrene has its drawbacks too. Heaven forbid you do anything that might tick someone else off.
Maybe that's why Hashan is so big at the moment. I can go anywhere I want pretty much (except Mhaldor), but we get raided and no one yells at you if you accidentally kill someone in the middle of the city. Perhaps people have caught on?
Hashan's like - You wanna raid? Sure. Throw parties? Yep. Chill with friends and gaggles of creatures? also an option. Drunk fight on the streets? That's ok too. I love the chaotic neutral alignment of the city but Cyrene is better I think if people find raiding and defending all the time to be annoying. Sometimes, when we are being raided three times a month by different cities, newbies ask me if hashan is always like this and I can understand why some people prefer cyrene more.
Cyrene has its drawbacks too. Heaven forbid you do anything that might tick someone else off.
Yep! That's why I left....also cause Occie and raiding and stuff.
Commission List: Aesi, Kenway, Shimi, Kythra, Trey, Sholen .... 5/5 CLOSED I will not draw them in the order that they are requested... rather in the order that I get inspiration/artist block.
As someone who, for the vast majority of my playing time has been adamantly opposed to Shallam and then to Targossas, I really have to rave about Targ. I never thought I'd end up playing there, but damn, y'all know how to make a girl feel special. The random tells that happen on occasion of people saying "Finally! I'm so glad you moved!" and all my @Tesha time has made it a blast. I was starting to phase out my Achaea time, but Targ brought me back.
I really don't believe this is a big nerf to veils. At most it nerfs veil radiance and veil-dueling. Veils are a completely terrible artefact, though, so that's why people hate them. Even people with veils often hate them.
Re: Cyrene and PK. Cyrene doesn't really keep anything more than arena fighters, for reasons mentioned. The type of PKer that is attracted to Cyrene essentially wants either danger-free PK or wants the typical RPG chaotic-neutral freedom that they imagine the aligned cities would strip them of.
Considering how you can't follow any other Divine but the city ones I'd say is less imagined and more of a fact. Not sure where the comment about danger-free pk comes from, though. Pretty sure most of the Cyrenian combatants I've seen would welcome more combat and danger, not less.
And sometimes people can like/enjoy combat and still have other priorities/ enjoy other things, much like @Aerek and the rest mentioned. Liking combat is not a flip switch that overrides everything else.
The idea that Targ and Mhaldor aren't for people who enjoy things other than combat is frankly pretty insulting to all the people in those cities that stand out for things completely unrelated to combat. Both cities have some stellar players that wouldn't know how to pk a potato.
As someone who, for the vast majority of my playing time has been adamantly opposed to Shallam and then to Targossas, I really have to rave about Targ. I never thought I'd end up playing there, but damn, y'all know how to make a girl feel special. The random tells that happen on occasion of people saying "Finally! I'm so glad you moved!" and all my @Tesha time has made it a blast. I was starting to phase out my Achaea time, but Targ brought me back.
Glad you found somewhere! I love the Targ crowd. Wish they would play against/with me more.
I really don't believe this is a big nerf to veils. At most it nerfs veil radiance and veil-dueling. Veils are a completely terrible artefact, though, so that's why people hate them. Even people with veils often hate them.
Re: Cyrene and PK. Cyrene doesn't really keep anything more than arena fighters, for reasons mentioned. The type of PKer that is attracted to Cyrene essentially wants either danger-free PK or wants the typical RPG chaotic-neutral freedom that they imagine the aligned cities would strip them of.
Considering how you can't follow any other Divine but the city ones I'd say is less imagined and more of a fact. Not sure where the comment about danger-free pk comes from, though. Pretty sure most of the Cyrenian combatants I've seen would welcome more combat and danger, not less.
And sometimes people can like/enjoy combat and still have other priorities/ enjoy other things, much like @Aerek and the rest mentioned. Liking combat is not a flip switch that overrides everything else.
The idea that Targ and Mhaldor aren't for people who enjoy things other than combat is frankly pretty insulting to all the people in those cities that stand out for things completely unrelated to combat. Both cities have some stellar players that wouldn't know how to pk a potato.
I do not know how to pk a potato.
Quisse begins to wield a chef's knife in her right hand. Quisse drops a chopping board. Quisse drops a crock pot. Quisse says, "Burn, heretic!"
Quisse begins to wield a chef's knife in her right hand. Quisse drops a chopping board. Quisse drops a crock pot. Quisse says, "Burn, heretic!"
Commence the slaughter!
Quisse brings the flat of a chef's knife crashing onto a potato. She misses.
Quisse attempts to slice a potato with the handle of a chef's knife. She misses.
Quisse swings the blade of a chef's knife towards a potato. A chopping board has been slain by the might of Quisse.
Quisse furiously attempts to drive the tip of a chef's knife into a potato. A crock pot shatters, slain by Quisse's superlative knife-play.
A potato suddenly grows into enormous proportions, as a pair of extremely muscled arms emerge from its sides. Gigantic fists repeatedly slam into Quisse as the now-mutated potato screams, "ORA ORA ORA ORA ORA ORA!" before sending her flying into the sky with a final uppercut. Quisse has been slain by the might of a potato.
Report #154 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Submitted by: You Status : Approved Skill : Evileye Ability : Bleed ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Problem: The majority of Apostates choose Nimble for Evileyes, which makes Decay at > 4 seconds ridiculously tedious as a hunting skill. Bleed, however, exists to rectify this. In its current state, it's not feasible though, since the WP drain is massive and the damage is so negligent that it is laughable. I propose the following alternatives to Apostate hunting to make it marginally better/on par with the speed of other hunting abilities. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Solution #1: Make Bleed in Evileyes do decent amounts of damage, but keep the WP drain the same. This will limit the amount of time one can hunt, but increase the efficiency. Short, powerful bursts of hunting. Solution #2: Make Bleed in Evileyes do marginally more damage against denizens (DWC comparison, maybe?) and significantly lower the WP drain to make it feasible to use over a long period of time. Solution #3: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Decision: Some variation on solution 2 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh joy! I am going to hunt myself into a stupor! Have been holding thumbs for this to be approved ever since I submitted it.
As much as I fanboy about BM, I enjoy learning about the other classes to.
Had a blast learning about druid PvP last month. The class is a monster that has yet to be unleashed upon the world (like DWB infernal). Definitely going to multiclass into it in the far future and I really wish Eleusis had more druid combatants.
Be the change you want to see in the world, right?
I hope that reflects onto Shaman bleed (Curses), as well, as it has almost the same problem.
What, no it doesn't. First of all, shamans don't spec EQ to bash. Second, curse bleed actually does good dps. Evileye bleed is just not even worth doing even if you had like level 4 balance bonus.
Comments
And you won't understand the cause of your grief...
...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.
Re: Cyrene and PK. Cyrene doesn't really keep anything more than arena fighters, for reasons mentioned. The type of PKer that is attracted to Cyrene essentially wants either danger-free PK or wants the typical RPG chaotic-neutral freedom that they imagine the aligned cities would strip them of.
My rave is for people who don't whine about artefacts. More power to you.
Not sure why the hostility. If you can't understand why attacking someone drops your 'hidden from everyone but ppl like me' for a short few seconds, then I think you're not understanding the problem!
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
And sometimes people can like/enjoy combat and still have other priorities/ enjoy other things, much like @Aerek and the rest mentioned. Liking combat is not a flip switch that overrides everything else.
And you won't understand the cause of your grief...
...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.
Also that went through before my forums caught up and @Daeir's post went through. So I will say this, I get that it's frustrating that people who have the means to dole out for things other people can't get the advantage. But that's really no different than RL. I don't have the money to go out and buy a Mercedes, instead I have a Honda nearly as old as I am that's on its last leg but it's still driving, and I get kinda envious of people who drive really nice cars, but c'est la vie.
I mean that's really what it's coming down to at this point isn't it? People getting upset because other people have the money they don't, or refuse to dish out for the same privileges.
In an effort to be understanding, I will say that I imagine if I were a more avid fighter, and if that's what did it for me in these games, I'd probably be more annoyed about the veil's mechanics too. But I'm looking at it from a completely different angle than those of you who get so uptight about them.
And if you attack someone else then why would you want to hide? You want to kill someone at least give them the chance to fight back properly.
And you won't understand the cause of your grief...
...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.
Really not seeing how this is a problem.
Edit: Cost of the item, and 'but if X has one, then you can ask them!' are not valid arguments in regards to the balance the artefact offers.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
Considering raiding Targ often has like 70% of their qw sit out, I don't see much validity to 'but I like other things than combat, too!' Even in Mhaldor not everyone always defends, and, realistically, how often do you think raids even happen? Unless you're Hashani + unlucky there's no situation where you'll be raided every day you're online.
The idea that Targ and Mhaldor aren't for people who enjoy things other than combat is frankly pretty insulting to all the people in those cities that stand out for things completely unrelated to combat. Both cities have some stellar players that wouldn't know how to pk a potato.
And you won't understand the cause of your grief...
...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.
When I was part of Cyrene and the Shield I got really tired of getting yelled at if, heaven forbid, I accidentally practiced something real quick and was too far away from the Tiltyard and arena. It was exhausting feeling like the rest of the city loathed the Shield and blamed them for any hint of a possibility hostility would visit the city. And, sometimes I was just bored. I don't really like raiding or getting raided on a daily basis, but not getting raided/raiding at all was just dull. But, Cyrene had a lot of great things going for it too, like the neutrality factor that people have mentioned. It was pretty awesome to be able to go to any city, and not have anyone think twice about you being there (minus Mhaldor and their stingy martial law :P ).
I will say though, that just because someone is playing in Mhaldor or Targossas, does not mean that they immediately have to be a zealot. Sure, the ideals require more knee-bending, as it were, but really that doesn't mean that every character that plays in one of those two cities actually RPs being a zealot. I think there are a fair few Mhaldorians and Targossians that are kind of casual in their attitudes.
Mhaldor doesn't require everyone to defend or actively raid, but there is a bit of pressure there to do so, and those that do are obviously more favored than those that don't. Not sure if it's the same way in Targ or not, at this point.
There are a lot of days, on an OOC enjoyment level, that I would go back to Cyrene in a heartbeat just to have that simplicity back.
I don't define my character by combat. But if I like to do combat 50% of the time, I'm not going to join a city that doesn't do any. What I want to do the other 50% might determine which of the 5 combat cities I join.
Whatever the case, the comment was made half-jokingly.
Seems pretty broken to me. *shrug*
ETA: A city improvement to disable the use of veils for city enemies/non-citizens/everyone within city limits (tuneable by minister) would be pretty great, tbh. Maybe use some of that now-worthless ice that everybody's mining.
Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files
In games like this it's hard to really have anywhere that is going to 100% appease every player, so I guess we go where we think we'll at least enjoy 90% of what's offered? I can't say that's the case for me right now. I think I'm more around the 30% enjoyment mark in Mhaldor, but I also don't have the energy to org hop because that starts to be a big deal to other people and then reputations start building and "ain't nobody got time for that".
Or, maybe I'm just a really old IRE grumpy player at this point lol. After 15 years or so I'm just not sure what's fun to me any more. Well, that's not entirely true, I love shopkeeping and tradeskills and the busy work that a lot of people dislike, like gathering and harvesting and such, and I love RPing. But, currently I don't own a shop and I don't get much RP.
I've been a bit on the nostalgic side lately too, about things that I used to really love about IRE that don't seem to really be a part of it any more. Halp! I need the magic back!
I will not draw them in the order that they are requested... rather in the order that I get inspiration/artist block.
I will not draw them in the order that they are requested... rather in the order that I get inspiration/artist block.
Right back at you @Sobriquet.
I do not know how to pk a potato.
Quisse begins to wield a chef's knife in her right hand.
Quisse drops a chopping board.
Quisse drops a crock pot.
Quisse says, "Burn, heretic!"
Commence the slaughter!
Quisse brings the flat of a chef's knife crashing onto a potato.
She misses.
Quisse attempts to slice a potato with the handle of a chef's knife.
She misses.
Quisse swings the blade of a chef's knife towards a potato.
A chopping board has been slain by the might of Quisse.
Quisse furiously attempts to drive the tip of a chef's knife into a potato.
A crock pot shatters, slain by Quisse's superlative knife-play.
A potato suddenly grows into enormous proportions, as a pair of extremely muscled arms emerge from its sides. Gigantic fists repeatedly slam into Quisse as the now-mutated potato screams, "ORA ORA ORA ORA ORA ORA!" before sending her flying into the sky with a final uppercut.
Quisse has been slain by the might of a potato.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submitted by: You Status : Approved
Skill : Evileye Ability : Bleed
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Problem:
The majority of Apostates choose Nimble for Evileyes, which makes Decay at > 4 seconds ridiculously
tedious as a hunting skill. Bleed, however, exists to rectify this. In its current state, it's not
feasible though, since the WP drain is massive and the damage is so negligent that it is laughable.
I propose the following alternatives to Apostate hunting to make it marginally better/on par with
the speed of other hunting abilities.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Solution #1:
Make Bleed in Evileyes do decent amounts of damage, but keep the WP drain the same. This will limit
the amount of time one can hunt, but increase the efficiency. Short, powerful bursts of hunting.
Solution #2:
Make Bleed in Evileyes do marginally more damage against denizens (DWC comparison, maybe?) and
significantly lower the WP drain to make it feasible to use over a long period of time.
Solution #3:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Decision:
Some variation on solution 2
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh joy! I am going to hunt myself into a stupor! Have been holding thumbs for this to be approved ever since I submitted it.
got gud
Had a blast learning about druid PvP last month. The class is a monster that has yet to be unleashed upon the world (like DWB infernal). Definitely going to multiclass into it in the far future and I really wish Eleusis had more druid combatants.
Be the change you want to see in the world, right?