Achaean Raves

Omor

Kiet said:

Omor said:

Saira said:

Report #154

[and stuff]

I hope that reflects onto Shaman bleed (Curses), as well, as it has almost the same problem.

What, no it doesn't. First of all, shamans don't spec EQ to bash. Second, curse bleed actually does good dps. Evileye bleed is just not even worth doing even if you had like level 4 balance bonus.

Was mainly referring to the wp drain.. clearing one small-ish area as Shaman completely depletes wp.

Kiet

Not so bad if you use jinx, tbh.

Omor

Eh, maybe I'm doing it wrong then. Aelkesh is attuned, swiftcurse is consistently up, but wp drains through in about 45min-1hr of solid hunting. Might be something to do with clotting now that I'm thinking on it, though, I have all those messages gagged...

Cooper

Most classes will have willpower or endurance struggles in an hour of straight hunting.

I have a circlet, artie megalith, trans philosophy and clot at 250 when I'm bashing and will blow through my wp if I use incantation to bash. 

Omor

I'll go back to my corner now. Thanks for the input guys.

Draqoom

Keorin said:

Lisbethae said:

There are a good number of combatants that do well in Cyrene. As long as someone is Cyrenian minded, it works well. There never will be the same density of combatants because you just don't see constant combat in Cyrene, but a bunch of people like PK and have fun in Cyrene.

Sure, there are some combatants that don't like it in Cyrene, but that's largely of their own making, at least from my perspective, that's what it seems like.

When the Dauntless showed up, lets not forget that Cyrene seriously had it brought up if they should be allowed, because people were afraid that having Dauntless might lead to -the horror- a raid. And the compromise was that a member of the Dauntless in Cyrene has to accept any challenge thrown their way or otherwise get out of the city for a while, because of that same fear. I don't know what "Cyrenian minded" means to you, but in this case it seems to mean "has the same reflexive fear of Cyrene ever being on the defensive side of an engagement."

That fear prevents the possibility of ever being involved in group combat, since it also means that getting allied to or defending other cities is banned for fear that it might be an excuse to be raided. And as a result of that, any person who wants to do combat in Cyrene basically has to not ever want to participate in a large portion of it. And for that, and many other reasons that others have pointed out better then me, it's definitely not of a combatants own making if they don't like it there.

TL;DR: There's a reason why Cyrene has always had a notable outflow of people who actually want to participate in combat.


Edit: Oh, right this is raves. Uhm, a lot of the Cyrenian combatants that do, for some reason, decide to stay are pretty cool!  the Shield!

I'm just going to leave this here:

12.3.5 Cyrene, Heart of the Vashnars

                 Heraldic Arms: Argent, a dragon close Azure
                         [CITY LEADERS]
                     Imperiate: Some guy
                        Patron: Some God
                      Senators: Some people
                    Ambassador: Some lady
               Minister of War: Draqoom
          Minister of Security: Some guy
                     Treasurer: Some lady
                       Steward: Some lady
             Minister of Trade: Some lady
                    Chancellor: Some lady
  Minister of Cultural Affairs: Some lady
       Minister of Development: Some lady
  Minister of Maritime Affairs: Some lady



I mean, I don't know about the rest of those people but I'm a pretty avid combatant. Not necessarily an amazing one, but I do my fair share of brawling and I still manage to have a good time in Cyrene.

Shirszae

I've heard Cyrenians even get bitched just for asking about the current event on their city channel. @Draqoom You are a Minister. By virtue of that, you are probably free from the bitchiness a lot of other people are subjected to.

Ahmet

Shirszae said:

I've heard Cyrenians even get bitched just for asking about the current event on their city channel

I feel like people blurred their IC and OOC reasonings for not wanting to (or wanting to) participate in this event, far too much.

IC argument: We're neutral and we shouldn't take part, cause we might cause conflict.
OOC REASONING: The admin aren't going to destroy our city, so there's going to be no negative impact for -not- participating, but we might end up ticking off another city, so we best not.

When in reality it should be

IC argument: Oh my fuck there's vampires trying to take control of a power that could fucking ruin sapience, undead armies and all. To hell with the other cities, we're protecting our future.
OOC REASONING: Oh my the admin put in the effort to do this whole goddamn event we should participate and enjoy it and revel in the fact that the administration is actually advancing the game.


Dunno. Maybe that's just me. I just find it ridiculous that the majority of the city declined to involve themselves in what's got the potential to be a -brilliant- event, simply because another city might get a bit miffed.

Rave for all the hard work the garden's been doing, regardless of how people seem to receive it.

Keorin

Admittedly, a lot of people seemed hesitant because of just how little was known. I definitely wish that we'd voted to participate, but I can sort of understand people being hesitant, when all the letters had more vague flattery then anything to actually distinguish them by. Nothing makes me more annoyed then then people interpreting neutrality as isolation from every conflict ever, though.

And @Draqoom, I never said that it's impossible to enjoy Cyrene and to like combat, just that there are a whole lot of conditions that make it very easy not to. It's cool if you have no complaints, but a -lot- of other people have not enjoyed it nearly as much, and for pretty obvious reasons.

Ahmet

Keorin said:

Admittedly, a lot of people seemed hesitant because of just how little was known. I definitely wish that we'd voted to participate, but I can sort of understand people being hesitant, when all the letters had more vague flattery then anything to actually distinguish them by. Nothing makes me more annoyed then then people interpreting neutrality as isolation from every conflict ever, though.

And @Draqoom, I said that it's impossible to enjoy Cyrene and to like combat, just that there are a whole lot of conditions that make it very easy not to. It's cool if you have no complaints, but a -lot- of other people have had far less positive experiences there.

Not to mention a lot of people have a much harder time shrugging off all the shit that non-conformists have to deal with in Cyrene.

Not that I get any of that, but a lot of shit goes down that can be attributed fully to nonsense.

Omor

I can only see one viable solution here. Delete Cyrene.
and veils

this is a joke.

Kaden

Yeah, it's not like we don't or haven't had fun during our times as combatants. It just gets to me that people assume we're all happy as clams and that the ones who voice complaint or criticism don't have a valid argument. It's a sweeping generalization that tries to dismiss an issue that's been with Cyrene for as far as I remember.

Shirszae

Whoever animated the Death knight.

Elsam

Quick rave about how cool Hashan is. You can get into some deep, opposing view points and still conduct yourselves as respectable adults. If only the real world were so good.

Anedhel

@Asani and @Gamoneterik are pretty cool

Draqoom

I genuinely have not had any problems in Cyrene as a combatant even before I was a Minister. I assaulted Hashan a couple times, defended Eleusis a time or two and I wasn't met with any real resistance. I was told to make sure it didn't become a problem, and it hadn't so I mean the options are there for combat and the Senate in general is pretty open to the idea of combat related stuff. People I think get too discouraged from other people putting them down and don't follow through with their ideas or goals and that's why the combat scene feels bad in Cyrene. It's not bad. I wouldn't be able to function if it was bad.



EDIT: I guess what I'm saying is, be creative.

Keorin

Draqoom said:

I genuinely have not had any problems in Cyrene as a combatant even before I was a Minister. I assaulted Hashan a couple times, defended Eleusis a time or two and I wasn't met with any real resistance. I was told to make sure it didn't become a problem, and it hadn't so I mean the options are there for combat and the Senate in general is pretty open to the idea of combat related stuff. People I think get too discouraged from other people putting them down and don't follow through with their ideas or goals and that's why the combat scene feels bad in Cyrene. It's not bad. I wouldn't be able to function if it was bad.



EDIT: I guess what I'm saying is, be creative.

First of all, defending and attacking other cities is explicitly illegal:

22. DEFENCE OF OTHER CITIES

--------------------------------

The defence of other cities is not permitted except in two specific

cases. 1). Defending yourself when attacked 2). Defending an event when

in another city of place. Outside of those two specific cases, no

exceptions will be made and abuse of either of them will be looked into

by the Senate. No specific penalty currently exists for breaking this

policy, but something can be put in place if necessity demands.

Of course, the corollary to this is that it's Cyrene, so the existence of a given law depends heavily on the opinion of who ends up enforcing it (hooray for strongman politics!). If the senate was actually open to this sort of thing, maybe they'd start taking off some of the restrictions.

There's any number of small things that quickly add up to a pretty stifling atmosphere. Despite testing things being legal, for instance, in the last few days I've both had a leader of the Shield say to do it in the arena (while we were testing curing a single affliction at the gates) and heard from a security aide that it should be kept there as well. I've heard just in conversations that defending another city might be bad because gods forbid we get raided and they'd have to see people dying on deathsight. Formal allying is also banned, the reasoning explicitly being that it might draw ire to Cyrene, if I remember correctly. Again, when the Dauntless became a thing, the senate literally had to decide if it would be allowed after there was a bit of skirmishing because of it. The compromise is that Cyrenians have to accept duels or leave the city, where any other city would just defend their combatants, and it makes it pretty clear how the city feels about having people interested in fighting.

You could say that caring about that stuff is just letting other people put you down and that you should ignore it, but that doesn't mean there isn't a frustrating culture when it comes to combat, it means that things aren't that bad if you just pretend it doesn't exist. That hardly feels like a fun way to play in a city. And if being creative means to just break the laws and hope that the leaders don't care in your case, then that seems like a problem in its own right.

Ahmet

@Keorin when you say 'formal allying', what do you mean? Cause you can totally become an ally to any other city.

Melodie

With a final strike of the hammer, you finish forging the lance.

You have forged an exceptional lance!

Your eye for detail tells you that an ivory lance cannot be refined any further, and has reached the maximum level of perfection that may be achieved with it.

You have mastered the forging of ivory forged items. Congratulations!

You have achieved the status of Legendary Blacksmith and are one of the most storied craftsman in the history of Achaea.

A lot of time, money and commodities later, finally finished with this. Thanks to everyone who has ever sold me stuff (often at discounts), and a special thanks to @Aegoth and @Leviticus for being very generously helpful in pushing me through what was an extremely daunting task. I never really imagined Mel as a forger, but I'm sure I'll work this into her character somehow!

Keorin

Ahmet said:

@Keorin when you say 'formal allying', what do you mean? Cause you can totally become an ally to any other city.

That's what I meant, but seems I was incorrect, thanks! I got it conflated with defending other cities since that's the big reason I'd want to defend (and it's usually a part of being an ally, seems like).

Anedhel

@Israyhl and I had a really enjoyable fight

Aerek

Keorin said:

There's any number of small things that quickly add up to a pretty stifling atmosphere. Despite testing things being legal, for instance, in the last few days I've both had a leader of the Shield say to do it in the arena (while we were testing curing a single affliction at the gates) and heard from a security aide that it should be kept there as well. I've heard just in conversations that defending another city might be bad because gods forbid we get raided and they'd have to see people dying on deathsight. Formal allying is also banned, the reasoning explicitly being that it might draw ire to Cyrene, if I remember correctly. Again, when the Dauntless became a thing, the senate literally had to decide if it would be allowed after there was a bit of skirmishing because of it. The compromise is that Cyrenians have to accept duels or leave the city, where any other city would just defend their combatants, and it makes it pretty clear how the city feels about having people interested in fighting.

• Don't forget relics. If you have a relic, you're a threat to the state and shouldn't enter the city, or if you do, you should leave to be ganked by request. It would be a terrible inconvenience to the citizenry if they had to come to your aid or something.
• Demonstrating basic attacks was deemed too tough a requirement for Army enlistment.
• The Warden/Shield combat rituals required super-special Senate permission to exist, (Wardens were almost forbidden from doing it under previous governments) and eventually the Tables had to be amended to allow them.
  
• I don't know combat testing to be legal at the moment. Despite the "mutual consent" clause in the actual Tables, it was made clear to me during my last argument about it that the current administration interprets the Tables differently than I do, that testing anywhere is technically illegal, and that they're all doing us a big favor by not punishing us when caught combat testing. They are gracious enough to turn a blind eye to it as long as we hide under rocks and in house estates while we do it.

At the end of the day, I don't think -all- of Cyrene's policies are bad. Obviously a city built on a foundation of peace is going to have some restrictions on fighters, and I support the democratic process even when it writes policies I don't agree with, so just because I don't like a policy doens't mean it's "wrong". What does bother me is the painfully obvious reality that combatants in Cyrene must deal with all of the inconveniences of living in a city built for non-combatants on a daily basis, but those non-combatants raise absolute hell when they must face even the slightest inconvenience of living in a city that allows (and even has a House built for) combatants. They love it when we go out and hunt down thieves who stole from them, but when someone comes after us because we're Mark/Dauntless/relic holder/rival/whatever, we're a public health hazard.

Nataliia

Lately I have been pretty bummed about the distinct lack of roleplay. Feels like I ran into a huge dry spell.

That being said, I have a HUGE shout out rave to @Khoraji for coming back and, not only that, actually taking the time to RP. It was pretty epic. I'm stoked because it's RP like that which tend to add depth to characters, one little encounter at a time.

Thanks for making my day in between the other iffy parts of Achaea that made up today.

Sarathai

The obvious answer to that is to just refuse to go and hunt thieves for them, if they're not able to adequately defend themselves to ensure it doesn't happen in the first place.

( @Aerek )

Ryzeth

Is this a bug, or an unannounced change? Rave if it's the latter.

[4360h | 4215m | 21000e | 89%] ex (23:27:58.527) 
You see the following people here:
Jukilian, A ghostly figure
[4360h | 4215m | 21000e | 89%] ex (23:28:00.400) 
You conceal yourself using all the guile you possess.
[4360h | 4290m(+75) | 20980e | 89%] e (23:28:02.210) 

Yay for being able to hide while others are present :O

Ahmet

Ryzeth said:

Is this a bug, or an unannounced change? Rave if it's the latter.

[4360h | 4215m | 21000e | 89%] ex (23:27:58.527) 
You see the following people here:
Jukilian, A ghostly figure
[4360h | 4215m | 21000e | 89%] ex (23:28:00.400) 
You conceal yourself using all the guile you possess.
[4360h | 4290m(+75) | 20980e | 89%] e (23:28:02.210) 

Yay for being able to hide while others are present :O

It's when you're in the presence of allies, IIRC.

Ysela

Sarathai said:

The obvious answer to that is to just refuse to go and hunt thieves for them, if they're not able to adequately defend themselves to ensure it doesn't happen in the first place.

( @Aerek )

Or stage a military coup

Ahmet

Ysela said:

Sarathai said:

The obvious answer to that is to just refuse to go and hunt thieves for them, if they're not able to adequately defend themselves to ensure it doesn't happen in the first place.

( @Aerek )

Or stage a military coup

Or just stop putting up with certain peoples' bullshit. That's a thing too.

Eguzki

Ahmet said:

Ryzeth said:

Is this a bug, or an unannounced change? Rave if it's the latter.

[4360h | 4215m | 21000e | 89%] ex (23:27:58.527) 
You see the following people here:
Jukilian, A ghostly figure
[4360h | 4215m | 21000e | 89%] ex (23:28:00.400) 
You conceal yourself using all the guile you possess.
[4360h | 4290m(+75) | 20980e | 89%] e (23:28:02.210) 

Yay for being able to hide while others are present :O

It's when you're in the presence of allies, IIRC.

Mutual allies, yes.

Krypton

Is it mutual now? Because that is new if so.