The Revelation

Austere

Zenui said:

A big part of the cooperation, I think, comes down to the (reported!) math for how relinquish works. Specifically, people have indicated that the bonus effect is for relinquishing is exponential. Hence, if I count each gathered splinter as being worth 1000 essence (as the Announce post suggested) then three individual splinters would count for 3000.

But an exponential scaling for the bonus would suggest that three splinters at once would count for something like 1000^3 i.e. 1 billion! That's a rather eye-popping figure, one which would dwarf the base amount. Moreover, the sheer number of players after splinters each round means that the only practical way for large splinter collections to happen for people to voluntarily wait their turn rather than jump the gun.  So that scenario would seem to very strongly favor cooperation between Orders, with many splinters per relinquish rather than many people with single splinters.

That said, I'm more than a little skeptical of this being the true calculation. For one, I've not taken into account the difference between gathering essence and subverting essence. More importantly, in my opinion, I've baldly assumed that the way relinquish works with multiple splinters is that it multiplies them together rather than just adding them. This would be exponential in the number of splinters, but it's not the only such scenario. (An exponential law includes both a base and a prefactor.)

All in all, I think this to be a scenario where players having info about the underlying formulas would actually help improve competition, by showing that the above logic is flawed. But within the present model, cooperation really does seem quite rational.

The logic is irrelevant though.  They aren't releasing any numbers just because this shouldn't be a numbers game.  In the end, they will retain full control of the situation (as they should because we don't want random divine killed off because their order were less inclined to fight for pieces).  This should be about fun, first and foremost. The great thing about having people behind the scenes that aren't releasing information is they are allowed to steer the narrative where it needs to go. I'm sure there will be rewards for the mega shrines, but personally, I'm more interested in the experience than the result. Day two:  most fun I've had in Achaea in over a year. 

Sarathai

Austere said:

Day two:  most fun I've had in Achaea in over a year. 

I hate your chaosrays so very much.

Korben

Austere said:

Most fun I've had in Achaea in over a year. 

In over nine years !

Jonathin

I'm bored with the cooperation. I want to die and group fight, but fighting the same people over and over is boring.

Also, before someone says 'just do it', I'm not inclined to lose citizenship because someone else got butthurt that I wasn't helping.

Jarrod

I can PK people in a group any day.

Actually forcing multiple factions into a semi-hostile/aligned RP situation is a much rarer thing. To each their own.

Farrah

Given that Makarios and Nicola have both indicated that this event will last more than a few days, and that factions will probably change their courses of action at some point, I don't really see why anyone is freaking about any particular course of action.

I had a blast with pk before the coalition was formed, and I'm sure there will be plenty more to go around before the event concludes.

Epifania

This quickly went from something I couldn't participate in at all aka feeling helpless to something I can be a part of and help my God when it is our turn, and support others along the way. I wasn't having fun in the beginning and couldn't get a single splinter but I definitely am now. Some feel the opposite and that is fine. 

Morsul

Hence my initial request: can we just fast forward to the next phase? It's become somewhat of a snoozefest, even with the Babelites and their shenanigans.

Cooper

At first I was pretty against the whole team work thing because we've spent so long trying to undo the team stuff that has happened in the past. But it's definitely a more interesting way of doing it that I think will create more fun as the event progresses, and it's definitely already allowed more people to have fun that wouldn't have been able to or wouldn't want to participate in a huge PK fest for a week.

Re: Zenui's numbers point - you're right. It was largely based off of information that was gained from the forums that no one knew exactly how it worked in game. We still don't. But it's fun for now!

Trey

All of you calm the fuck down and look at this kitten.

Zulah

@Trey that kitten needs to be the one calming down! It's breathing entirely too fast

Makarios

Sounds like what we need are some wyverns!

(Right Conclave participants? Right?)

Exelethril

Could also use an honours line, had facets for currency

[spoiler] I know that ship has sailed but the salt remains [/spoiler]

Jadys

This went from fun to not fun for me very quickly. I had a really slow start due to being prone to migraines that trigger when the spam becomes too much, which it always does at the start of any large event. I deal with it and find ways to adapt. Combat was out, too many voices spread across party and ic clans, compounded by it being people who never worked together as a group before. When I realized I could collect splinters and get them to the shrine without much spam issue, I got my first one (thanks Austere) and relinquished it. I went to bed excited to get up the next day and see how many I could get for my Divine. Thing is, I woke to this alliance and not being allowed to gather splinters anymore unless it was our "turn". OK. But then a few minutes later I hear one person was designated to collect on our turn. So that pushed me out of anything to do with gathering. In addition, I find out that in order to participate in the offense or defense, I had to attack my city mates. So ya, not happening. Basically, I was reduced to sitting and watching. Fun to done overnight.  

Morthif

I feel like if the Tsol'teth/Black Wave are back hell bent on destruction why wouldn't we all loosely rally behind the staff bearer? I mean if anyone is going to fuck up Achaea it's us not some invading force. 

Jarrod

Daeir said:

I'm not bagging on it as being a bad thing, but it definitely isn't the rarity that you're making it out to be.

A handful of events over the past multiple RL years. Yeah you're right it's just as common as group PK -_-

Siduri

Morthif said:

I feel like if the Tsol'teth/Black Wave are back hell bent on destruction why wouldn't we all loosely rally behind the staff bearer? I mean if anyone is going to fuck up Achaea it's us not some invading force. 

True, makes perfect sense as Jarrod bears the staff of Nicator.

As for those who whine about world events having alliances, it'd be a great idea to play the rest of the year where conflict is the de facto situation instead of popping during events and demanding they function in the very same way 90% of the year did.

Rohalla

Daeir said:

Jarrod said:

I can PK people in a group any day.

Actually forcing multiple factions into a semi-hostile/aligned RP situation is a much rarer thing. To each their own.

It's good that people are getting the opportunity to flex out their diplomatic muscles and revel in the glow of teamwork, but if this status quo persists for more than a few days, it's going to get incredibly boring

As opposed to the pretty much daily raiding where nothing of any real interest happens and people type aliases at each other and have little other meaningful interaction besides lame shit talk.

This is much more interesting, and less common. You want it to fast forward to more of the same thing and don't think that would be the more boring option?

Zulah

Whence the master shrines are done does the shrine placement war start right after or?

Bleak

Zulah said:

The new way of doing things is a bit lame. Went to look at a splinter and was attacked by Bleak/Antonius/Xaden just for touching it. Wasn't even an Avatar. When I tried to say I wasn't an Avatar I was still attacked. So much for looking at them. Seems like most other events, if you're not in the main group your target for gank squad. Only thing that changed is now you can gank with a city enemy.

This is not true. I stopped attacking when you said you where not an avatar. Then I told you not to take the splinter. You just got grumpy and started talking about having cause or not. 

Jonathin

Jarrod used the staff's power and rallied people to fight for him, although I think he did it backward because instead of  10 people with the strength of 10 men, he's got 100 fighting at 1/10 strength.

Dunn

I'm having fun (when I have people here to play with).

@Jhui and I both got >70 kills yesterday and collected a ton of splinters. I got nothin but pride for these dudes and what we've done.

@Austere @Hirst @Airius @Dalran @Jinsun (late last night)

Thank you @Farrah for pointing out that we are not sided with the Tsol'teth at all. We are accomplishing the same goal, but without a silly alliance (and doing quite well). And our Order denizen moved for the first time in >=2 years to reaffirm this feeling for us. Y'all can enjoy your clipboard and roaming collection groups. We're having a hell of a time.

Siduri

Jonathin said:

Jarrod used the staff's power and rallied people to fight for him, although I think he did it backward because instead of  10 people with the strength of 10 men, he's got 100 fighting at 1/10 strength.

This is for the Ashtani troops fighting us. Gawd.

Zulah

Bleak said:

Zulah said:

The new way of doing things is a bit lame. Went to look at a splinter and was attacked by Bleak/Antonius/Xaden just for touching it. Wasn't even an Avatar. When I tried to say I wasn't an Avatar I was still attacked. So much for looking at them. Seems like most other events, if you're not in the main group your target for gank squad. Only thing that changed is now you can gank with a city enemy.

This is not true. I stopped attacking when you said you where not an avatar. Then I told you not to take the splinter. You just got grumpy and started talking about having cause or not. 

You assume it was you I was referring to. Not all about you

Bleak

Everything is about me.  Now tell me how handsome I am.

Zulah

Bleak said:

Everything is about me.  Now tell me how handsome I am.

So sexy but you need to do something with your hair. Maybe dye it pink!

Szanthax

Dunn said:

I'm having fun (when I have people here to play with).

@Jhui and I both got >70 kills yesterday and collected a ton of splinters. I got nothin but pride for these dudes and what we've done.

@Austere @Hirst @Airius @Dalran @Jinsun (late last night)

Thank you @Farrah for pointing out that we are not sided with the Tsol'teth at all. We are accomplishing the same goal, but without a silly alliance (and doing quite well). And our Order denizen moved for the first time in >=2 years to reaffirm this feeling for us. Y'all can enjoy your clipboard and roaming collection groups. We're having a hell of a time.

I love the attitude. it's good to see and you guys kill crazy fast lol

Morthif

I qq'd last night right when the Ashtan super bomb went off. Crazy deathsight lag was worth a good chuckle. 

Datrius

I'm having a blast but definitely got thrust into a position of leadership I wasn't expecting for this and it's got me all kinda wonky. But multiple people have told me to not stress so much about it and make sure I sleep, cause I've done like...7 hours of sleeping since the reveal.

Siduri

@Datrius - I definitely understand that. I'm pretty much second-in-command for the Aarash Kheyr effort. Was very active on reveal and yesterday. But I teach tomorrow morning and at some point, we just have to focus on RL and physical wellness.