The Revelation

Frederich

Ayyyy.  @Dunn gets it.

Also I'm not really opposed to getting fucked up if I deserve it.  I just don't wanna get ganked a shitton for standing in a place.  (PS: apparently you can't get retribution if you're attacked on city defendable by a city enemy.  I only learned this yesterday.)

But yeah, @Adeleine can you seriously stop being toxic?  Like.  At one point it was kinda cute, but then it just started getting super toxic (or maybe it always was).  All you've been doing is going "lmao admins are dumb and their rulings are null and void."

"but they're the admins and they have more authority than yo--"

"GIF OF GUY LAUGHING HAR HAR"

Ahmet

If you subvert, you're pretty much open to attack for the rest of the shardfall. At least, that's how most people see you.

Now, what some people (read: Leviticus) need to realize is: If you attack someone for subverting, they can defend themselves. Them defending themselves doesn't mean you can come back after the fact because they fought back.

Kez

What the hell happened? Everyone go google cute puppies right now. Better? Cool.

Datrius

My brain hurts.  Why are there so many weird gifs in our thread?  

Farrah

The real question is why The Revelation thread turned into The More Aggressive Menace.

HEY GUYS, DEVELOPMENTS TONIGHT.

Korben

Adeleine said:

If you're helping people get splinters, you're on the kill list. You don't get immunity from PK just because you're not the specific person who is getting the splinter. Any ruling made that states or suggests otherwise is inherently faulty and violates roleplay and common sense.

Then take it up with the admin. They made the rules; they could have made shardfall areas open PK, in fact some people asked for that specifically, but they didn't. Even if you convince most of us with your argument, we can't change the way the event is set up. Go discuss it with them.

Issues are for cases of harassment that cannot be resolved in-character, not cases of "I was participating in a PK event and got PKed."

There is no such thing as 'a PK event', pure and simple. Every PK event has its conditions and limitations (ie, 'the rules') to limit who kills who when why where.

Denying someone the ability to attack a person for actively opposing and hindering their actions goes against roleplay and common sense as well as the established rules of the game.

Let me start by saying you're right. From a RP point of view every faction should be fighting those on the other side. The thing is, 'you can kill them all' has caused all sorts of deleterious behavior in the past and I can see why the current limits for this event are as they are. In addition, we're dealing with an inescapable tradeoff. Either we have full-on open pk in shardfall areas, with the inevitable result that people already in the area when the fall happened or those passing through will be killed, or we have what we have now: some people assist by scouting, clearing Tide (though I believe that actually helps every overlander faction), or sitting in the defense party and looking ominous, but they can't be attacked. We don't get the happy medium in which everyone helping a faction is attackable and everyone not helping isn't.

Shirszae

@Frederich ...You can always get retribution for someone attacking you, unless you are free pk. Fairly certain of that. 

Also, can people just stop feeding the troll? This thread is rapidly becoming a fucking mess. Interesting stuff happens in the game, but you all keep barking out the same stupid tune. If you really take umbrage for what they are doing, I am sure you know what to do. 

Frederich

@Shirszae was informed by Security team in Cyrene that you cannot seek 'retribution' whenever someone is defending their city.

Person A raids Cyrene
Person B radiances Person A, whilst they are in Cyrene.
Person A cannot (legally) run out and murderalize person B for killing them during a raid.
Person B is still an asshole for using radiance, but well within their right.

Also yay.  I have this feeling I'm gonna go to sleep now.

Wake up.

fog everywhere.  And I am going to be pissed if it happens.

Shirszae

@Frederich Thats just Cyrene being stupid. If someone kills you, you can go kill them. Unless special circumstances like contract or such apply. I am pretty certain of that.

Nicola

Rightyo. I've not had my morning cup of tea yet, so these .gifs are going to receive a rough treatment.

As for the rest, there is the event guideline in place so that newbies and people who might be playing other aspects of Achaea can still do so without being smushed for accidentally walking through the wrong area at the wrong time.

Dunn

If we were still going by actual PK cause, sure. I don't personally do that because I'm aware that I put myself into that scenario, though. I wish we would just fully transition to RP PK and everyone could rid themselves of this Trumpian thin skin. 

Kez

Soooo I wrote NOT YOU earlier and since the post it was in reference to is now gone I just wanna say that was not directed at you, Korben!

Benevolent Overlord Edit: I'll remove that post too, @Kez.

Thanks Overlord!

Aylek

Nicola said:

Rightyo. I've not had my morning cup of tea yet, so these .gifs are going to receive a rough treatment.

As for the rest, there is the event guideline in place so that newbies and people who might be playing other aspects of Achaea can still do so without being smushed for accidentally walking through the wrong area at the wrong time.

Does this mean that someone who is well known for being directly involved in fighting avatars/gathering shards etc, is open to be attacked based on valid RP of them directly involving themselves in the fight for shards, and knowingly entering the area?

Adeleine

Frederich said:

Person B is still an asshole for using radiance, but well within their right.

Defending your city from raids using the means available to your class is being an asshole?

Korben

Frederich said:

Person A raids Cyrene
Person B radiances Person A, whilst they are in Cyrene.
Person A cannot (legally) run out and murderalize person B for killing them during a raid.
Person B is still an asshole for using radiance, but well within their right.

That's how it used to be, though I have no idea if they've changed it while I was away. Person B doesn't even have to be from Cyrene, in an extreme case they could even be another enemy of Cyrene. Person A has two choices, self-defence (kill person B before dying to radiance) or leave the city and let it all end there.

Kez: I know, no problem !

Prythe

There's a TL;DR at the bottom, the background before I toss in my relevant two cents is because I was feeling self indulgent. 

Anybody who knows Prythe knows that she doesn't spend too much time thinking about this type of stuff. She just muddles along and hopes for the best. 

This stems back to my earliest days when somebody would ask me what Class another person was, and I would say, "I don't know." and they would be confused that I did not. But I did not. 

"But they used [insert skill here] so they must be a [Class]."  This was before the open sharing of all this info, and I felt it made more sense for me to not know these things so I was still clueless, and for _me_ that was better RP for _me_.

Flash forward 400 or so game years. Recently I decided to stop going solo in outlying areas, and came back in the midst of this event. Reunite with old friends, and am making many new amazingly wonderful ones (why did I wait so long to do this - oh yeah, consistency of _my_ RP - and I am pleased with how I managed to IC justify the change).

And I am big and I like to Hunt. This event is made for me. Fog beastie. Kill it. Another fog beastie. Kill that one too. Oh look, gold! Mein gott, so much gold! And I can interweave it all with a consistency internal to the essential Prythe. I am having a blast.

(And I can note that the forests are not being well tended, because reasons, and when my "assigned" locations are handled, I go take care of those as well, because you can take the Prythe out of the Forestal "community" but her essence is unchanged.)

And, while I don't like to be an aggressor I can be pointed in the right direction and hurt things / people, in this instance those who are hindering a group effort of "my" people who I believe are "trying to save the world" versus the "Everybody else gets to raid, let's create an excuse to do so" mentality which I have seen at other times and places and which conflicted with my IC ideals and RP. 

This is all a lot of long backstory to say this:

You point me, I kill things. That includes people coming in to hamper "our" efforts to rebuild "our" Shrines.

I have been fortunate to get in the last blow a few times, and have been threatened with retaliation.

My feeling on that - 

You walk into a group with the intent of disrupting the actions of that group, you have no business complaining you were ganked. Nor is that a rationale for "redress" or a demand for a one on one battle.

I will answer ICly about that, making that point. And laugh behind the keys of my computer at those who seem to be missing that larger picture.

I don't go after people just because of who they are, but rather because of what they are doing, and currently only in conjunction with a collective effort which purpose makes sense to me. 

(And if I did, I am sure I would end up dead. Prythe is maxed for the Hunt. Prythe does not Combat well. Two different things.)

I have passed by many people not in my "alliance" and not attacked them, and they have not attacked me. (I won't call them by name as I don't want to get them in trouble.) 

If I walk into a room where they are fighting a beastie, I apologize and scoot. A few have done the same to / for / with me. 

Y'all know who you are, I think. 

I will also note that there are a couple "bad guys" with whom I have a lifelong IC relationship. I prefer not to attack them. I will if I feel I obligated to do so, but in general I will look for a legit way to abstain. :: lick bow :: "Oh, a squirrel!"

TL;DR Walk into the path of a train hoping to stop it, you have no legit gripe with the train when it runs you over.

Kresslack

I like how some problems just take care of themselves.

Cailan

Rules? They're more like guidelines, really.

Bann

I got to admit, there's some very serious salt going on in this thread. I thought I had spawned some in the other games, but being honest, this just about beats out anything I've ever generated. The gifs and memes alone are just...wow. Also gotta lol at the 'admin can suck it' attitude. You're probably one of those peeps who get drug out of wal-mart physically screaming it's a free country and you can go where you want in the nude.

I help A-team out whenever I can with the pvp aspect of the splinterfalls, and outside of @Bleak ganking me like a scrub while I was fighting a blackout ogre, I've basically been left alone even when I'm in a splinterfall area.

Normally if I see them drop in my area and I'm bashing Tidecritters or just bashing period, I'll send @Farrah a tell and be like hey, I'm not doing splinters, I'm just clearing Tide. I basically get left alone. I'd like to say that I get that kind of respect because I'm not a jerk, but, honestly I think it's just because Fararh has a secret crush on me.

Farrah

Bann said:

I got to admit, there's some very serious salt going on in this thread. I thought I had spawned some in the other games, but being honest, this just about beats out anything I've ever generated. The gifs and memes alone are just...wow. Also gotta lol at the 'admin can suck it' attitude. You're probably one of those peeps who get drug out of wal-mart physically screaming it's a free country and you can go where you want in the nude.

I help A-team out whenever I can with the pvp aspect of the splinterfalls, and outside of @Bleak ganking me like a scrub while I was fighting a blackout ogre, I've basically been left alone even when I'm in a splinterfall area.

Normally if I see them drop in my area and I'm bashing Tidecritters or just bashing period, I'll send @Farrah a tell and be like hey, I'm not doing splinters, I'm just clearing Tide. I basically get left alone. I'd like to say that I get that kind of respect because I'm not a jerk, but, honestly I think it's just because Fararh has a secret crush on me.

Well, now I'm going to have to start killing you. Have to keep up appearances!

Kiskan

Korben said:

Adeleine said:

If you're helping people get splinters, you're on the kill list. You don't get immunity from PK just because you're not the specific person who is getting the splinter. Any ruling made that states or suggests otherwise is inherently faulty and violates roleplay and common sense.

Then take it up with the admin. They made the rules; they could have made shardfall areas open PK, in fact some people asked for that specifically, but they didn't. Even if you convince most of us with your argument, we can't change the way the event is set up. Go discuss it with them.

Issues are for cases of harassment that cannot be resolved in-character, not cases of "I was participating in a PK event and got PKed."

There is no such thing as 'a PK event', pure and simple. Every PK event has its conditions and limitations (ie, 'the rules') to limit who kills who when why where.

It does seem odd to not have the areas be Open PK (or maybe Free PK).  Really odd, tbh... (but it looks like they very clearly are not).  I get the rationale of "don't interrupt people playing other aspects of a game" but to me, that's just a sign of how split the game is into really hard lines of com/non-com, with non-coms afraid to be "invaded" by the com side, and certainly not seeing it as something that could ever be fun and interesting (and in all fairness, they are definitely not totally unjustified in feeling that way). 

Silvarien

never mind

Zahan

So last night I am in the Vashnar mountains on a clean install of mush, pretty much blind and lost, testing some new scripts.  All off a sudden, a group of about 6 people dash into the room and just start beating the shit out of me.  Naturally I take off running, around the Thraasi area at this point, trying to yell "NOT DOING AVATAR."  I am never able to stop long enough to utter the phrase, though, and am consequently slain by the group of bloodthirsty maniacs before I could notice a single name.  Then I woke up in a cold sweat only to realize it was all just a dream and that I need to stop reading this thread so much.

True story.



inb4 exp loss from player kill is completely removed
inb4 aggressive action is only permissible by the dauntless

Caelan

Just posting so I, too, can collect the tears of the Fallen.  

Korben

Kiskan said:

I get the rationale of "don't interrupt people playing other aspects of a game" but to me, that's just a sign of how split the game is into really hard lines of com/non-com, with non-coms afraid to be "invaded" by the com side, and certainly not seeing it as something that could ever be fun and interesting (and in all fairness, they are definitely not totally unjustified in feeling that way). 

And this is why I keep suggesting PK levels. You don't get people to join an activity when they get shoved into the deep end of the pool as soon as they dip their toes in. In my vision, you could have many layers of 'PKness' buffering this stark division between coms and noncoms.

Kiskan

Not going to happen.  It is what it is.  But I do think that's exactly why you see sort of odd setups like "we're going to have this epic worldwide event and it's going to crop up in random areas and there will be massive battles there - but, uh, we recognize that a huge chunk of the player base is scared as hell of the "PK server" people coming over to their side, so uh, you guys had better not attack people in the area unless they are DEFINITELY taking action against your side".  Now in fairness, there is a certain kind of non-com who literally does not want to be interrupted, ever, and would be upset regardless, but right, exactly.

Bann

@Kiskan - I used to know someone in another game who would raise unholy hell at world events going on, claiming they were ruining their immersion and gameplay. How exactly that happens is beyond me, but...you know.

Lisbethae

Personally, I am pretty pleased with the ways our non-coms have been finding ways to help. There's something for everyone, you just have to be observant.

Kiskan

Bann said:

@Kiskan - I used to know someone in another game who would raise unholy hell at world events going on, claiming they were ruining their immersion and gameplay. How exactly that happens is beyond me, but...you know.

These people actually benefit greatly from an environment where death is viewed as "pretty high stakes" - because admin will feel like they need to do the sort of thing they did here (publish guidelines severely restricting what the PK side of the house can do, even in the middle of a battleground).  

It's the people who aren't totally turned off by PK (even occasional impromptu PK) but don't feel confident enough about being able to shoulder the losses, that get left out.  So you have very confident PK-ers doing their thing, and the people who don't ever want to be interrupted are (usually, almost always) happy.  But everyone else is sort of trapped in a limbo.

Antidas

That moment when you pickpocket a key from a mob that you're clearly not supposed to have, and admins steal it away in about a second flat

I won't forget this betrayal @Nicola!!