The Revelation

Mathilda

I'd like to echo the concern that, more often than not, it's the midbies who get shat on for participating in splinterfalls. Go after each other, artifacted people. It's frustrating to be jumped or killed twice almost a whole day after a splinter skirmish with certain people.

Dunn

Consequences for actions, etc. I think it's a little insane to expect non retaliation after you dogpile someone. I don't discriminate against mid low high midlow lowhigh midhighbies, though. 

Patroklos

Retaliation is one thing, but trying to push the actual definition of when it's okay to kill someone because they have 'intent' is a whole different situation. Holy shit, if people got punished based on intent, I'm pretty confident this entire planet would be a prison.

Exxia

Mathilda said:

I'd like to echo the concern that, more often than not, it's the midbies who get shat on for participating in splinterfalls. Go after each other, artifacted people. It's frustrating to be jumped or killed twice almost a whole day after a splinter skirmish with certain people.

I've been there, still there technically, but you're just gonna have to keep fighting, know the limits. There's no way but up. You don't have to get artefacts at all, but if you like combat, obviously you're going to have to, at least to get some sort of even ground.
Like, hunt up some levels for real, with more experience gain the less experience loss, well it's the same I'm sure, but you don't notice it as much as you go up in level.
Practice with your citymates a lot a lot. Like, you got so many good people in Eleusis. Your character is only 18 you got some ways to go considering the people you're fighting are all regular players who spend on average at least 2-6 hours a day in realms and have been doing so for rl years.

tl;dr : YOU GOT THIS KEEP GOING

(Join Mhaldor become a hero)

Patroklos

Daeir said:

Name and shame the people doing the people days after the fact. That kind of shit is petty, and the only way it's going to stop is if people pressure others not to play that way.

That being said, if you do dogpile on someone, don't expect to be safe for the remainder of the day until you've died for it.

Naming and shaming isn't going to fix the behavior, because there's people guilty of it on all sides. I'm just going to be happy when this leg of the event is over and we can just go back to killing each other amicably in raids.

Cooper

Daeir said:

Name and shame the people doing the people days after the fact. That kind of shit is petty, and the only way it's going to stop is if people pressure others not to play that way.

That being said, if you do dogpile on someone, don't expect to be safe for the remainder of the day until you've died for it.

This is not the time for name and shame. If you gank someone 8v1 you deserve to get your ass kicked, and logging out for the day doesn't make that go away. 

Dunn

Patroklos said:

Retaliation is one thing, but trying to push the actual definition of when it's okay to kill someone because they have 'intent' is a whole different situation. Holy shit, if people got punished based on intent, I'm pretty confident this entire planet would be a prison.

If you're referring to last night, you had subverted that splinterfall and were standing on a splinter at the time as we entered the area. It wasn't a logical leap to decide to kill you.

Not sure why you're talking about intent in the context of RL, though. Intent and previous behavior influencing my decision to PK you in a game is entirely different. Fairly certain intent is  portion of several legal definitions, but I am not a lawman. 

Patroklos

By that logic, anyone who's historically subverted, regardless of whatever timeframe you justify clearly has intent to subvert again. Perhaps I'm just scouting and attempting to have someone of that Order come subvert instead for the shard bonus? That logic's a slippery slope, and anyone more issue happy would likely have hit you with one. If shardfall areas were open pk I wouldn't mind having my rectum torn inside out in that instance.

Dunn

Uh no. I've bounded that logic within the time frame of that splinterfall. Your slippery slope argument applies if the person applying the logic has no limit. You're right, some dickhead could do that. I didn't, but here you are complaining a day later after you sent me a whiny tell about it. 

Szanthax

ouchies

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/u5CpOhtD

Frederich

Honestly shout out to @Yae for saving my ass whenever @Dunn tried to merk me as an avatar.  With herself being an avatar.

to you yae.

Nazihk

I feel like anybody who is a known participant in splinterfalls, whether they be subverter or aggressor or defender, who is complaining about being attacked in a splinterfall area because 'I hadn't subverted yet so you aren't allowed to!' is basically just a whiny rules-lawyer and that they should man up and stop crying and accept the fact that participation in a PvP event might mean you get PvPed.

You are a known participant in splinterfalls. Splinterfalls are a PK event. You know that splinterfalls are a PK event. Crying because they didn't let a known enemy combatant wander the splinterfall area freely is ridiculous and it reflects badly upon you and your organization and your associates. It's like whining "Yes, I insulted him yesterday but that was yesterday and so he has to let it slide now".

Cooper

If the admin wanted that to be the rule, they would have. Asking players to follow the rules the admin put in place is not being a whiny rules lawyer. 

The subverting/avatar rule is the only thing that is allowing Mhaldor to participate, and even then it's only possible during off peak hours.

Nazihk

The Guidelines --------------
        1. There must be a justifiable role-play reason for every attack and death.

This does not mean you can attack other players repeatedly just for being a
member of an opposing organisation. Neither can you justify your behaviour by claiming something like "my character is a psycho killer!" A player must have
done something serious to you to warrant an attack, and they must be aware of
the conflict before you attack them.

PK Rule #1. It seems pretty clear that there's a justifiable RP reason for those kills(you oppose their splinterfall faction), that you were doing something to warrant an attack(known splinterfall combatant in a splinterfall area), and that you knew there would be a conflict when you went to the splinterfall(duh). 

I feel like those guidelines about subversion/etc are mostly there for the sake of people who aren't really involved in the event, so that you can't just gank an uninvolved Joe Midbie who is walking through the area on his way to Azdun or whatever. I do not think that they are there so that active and involved participants can cry foul when the other side takes a shot at them.

After all, the event rules/posts just say that subverting makes you Open PK; they say nothing about overriding the existing PK rules that are already in place and nothing about you being safe until you start subverting.

Cooper

The admin have stepped into coalition parties to tell them to cool it off.

We've been told to issue people that aren't following the subverting/avatar rule.

I disagree the rule does not over ride the rule you quoted, because if it didn't, there would be no point to it.

Edit: It's kind of a moot point regardless, because every active PKer/event participate in Mhaldor has been attacked on sight during every splinter fall since we left the coalition. I've been attacked over 200 separate times when I wasn't subverting or an avatar, or attacking an avatar.

Jonathin

This argument is about as entertaining as stuffing a knife into an electrical outlet.

Tahquil

So.... Very.

Armali

So it's electrifying!?

Lylith

It's fairly shocking.

Datrius

@lylith I still lol at the thought of our duel to settle the one matter. So knew I was gonna lose that.

Caelan

Torinn said:

I agree wholeheartedly. I began this event having never really fought before. I am level 90 and never offensively raided, I didn't even have defense sets set up properly that's how much if a noob at pvp i was. I have learned a great deal and think I'm getting better but lately I've really been turned off from participating because I ultimately feel like I don't matter. I'm not dragon, I don't have tons of artefacts, and I can't fight one on one versus someone who makes PvP their focus even if they're lower level.  Then I get shit on because when I do fight it's with others more knowledgeable than myself and not honourable 1v1. And then those combatants who make PvP their life come around later and roflstomp me for participating in PvP the only way I have a chance at. I take it all in stride but it's just real shitty all around.  Farrah and antidas and others of Targossas have been amazing but it's still super discouraging.

I get it. But if/when you go/went to high school, did the seniors fuck w you? How about college? (Going to guess no military?)

And I know it sounds like blaming the victim or whatever but honestly, it is kind of the way it goes. It is a sort of..  like..  they are testing what you're made of, how serious you are, etc. Plus everyone in PvP sees a new guy and wants to see where they stack up.   if you whine and bitch, they will come here and mock you and count every. single. cause (oh really mofo, you wanna quote rules? good. step out of line one more again . i dare ya) but if you can take it.... well you start to get A LITTLE respect and if you talk w them and say stop, not feeling it today, whatever instead of pumping out issues like a 2005 Mhaldorian, they realize it isnt fun for you anymore.  The decent ones stop. the griefers dont, and you know those are the ones that will only stop when issued.  

I just came back after 5+ years away. I am rusty as shit w no curing. but i joined the event anyway and defend the city. i dont even know what my class skills do for the most part.  I got yanked out of Hashan and killed by 4 Nihilists as an avatar. I just said "good one"  because Jhui got lucky AF with his boomerang. I should have known better than to stop on the straightaway... and my mass had JUST worn off.   Aside from that the only problem was a certain someone taking advantage of the knowledge I dont have curing right now, by being an asshat. whivh makes me realize I need to cure better and mudstomp his face into a curb. over. and over. (So like..  and then over and over again) But I will die A LOT to learn what it takes.   It is the game, man.

Frederich

One word.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK

That is all.

Szanthax

Caelan said:

Torinn said:

I agree wholeheartedly. I began this event having never really fought before. I am level 90 and never offensively raided, I didn't even have defense sets set up properly that's how much if a noob at pvp i was. I have learned a great deal and think I'm getting better but lately I've really been turned off from participating because I ultimately feel like I don't matter. I'm not dragon, I don't have tons of artefacts, and I can't fight one on one versus someone who makes PvP their focus even if they're lower level.  Then I get shit on because when I do fight it's with others more knowledgeable than myself and not honourable 1v1. And then those combatants who make PvP their life come around later and roflstomp me for participating in PvP the only way I have a chance at. I take it all in stride but it's just real shitty all around.  Farrah and antidas and others of Targossas have been amazing but it's still super discouraging.

I get it. But if/when you go/went to high school, did the seniors fuck w you? How about college? (Going to guess no military?)

And I know it sounds like blaming the victim or whatever but honestly, it is kind of the way it goes. It is a sort of..  like..  they are testing what you're made of, how serious you are, etc. Plus everyone in PvP sees a new guy and wants to see where they stack up.   if you whine and bitch, they will come here and mock you and count every. single. cause (oh really mofo, you wanna quote rules? good. step out of line one more again . i dare ya) but if you can take it.... well you start to get A LITTLE respect and if you talk w them and say stop, not feeling it today, whatever instead of pumping out issues like a 2005 Mhaldorian, they realize it isnt fun for you anymore.  The decent ones stop. the griefers dont, and you know those are the ones that will only stop when issued.  

I just came back after 5+ years away. I am rusty as shit w no curing. but i joined the event anyway and defend the city. i dont even know what my class skills do for the most part.  I got yanked out of Hashan and killed by 4 Nihilists as an avatar. I just said "good one"  because Jhui got lucky AF with his boomerang. I should have known better than to stop on the straightaway... and my mass had JUST worn off.   Aside from that the only problem was a certain someone taking advantage of the knowledge I dont have curing right now, by being an asshat. whivh makes me realize I need to cure better and mudstomp his face into a curb. over. and over. (So like..  and then over and over again) But I will die A LOT to learn what it takes.   It is the game, man.

I was picked on by everyone... from like... grade school through college. Computer nerd... dork.. fag. Yep got it all. Now i'm the coolest kid in school.

That being said I don't agree with bullying and I don't think it made me a better person today. I know that is not where your post was directed but... that how i read.

Caelan

Szanthax said:

Caelan said:

I was picked on by everyone... from like... grade school through college. Computer nerd... dork.. fag. Yep got it all. Now i'm the coolest kid in school.

That being said I don't agree with bullying and I don't think it made me a better person today. I know that is not where your post was directed but... that how i read.

Why were you picked on for smoking?   

And yeah, but in the game, as in nature, you can't step into a coliseum or a ring and NOT have people "test' you.  Same with a battlefield, or even just being the newest gay guy at the college IT desk (I still love you - you know what I mean damnit!).  I'm a hunter and fisher IRL.  The best lure for fish, is an injured fish.  The genetics of the herd require the strongest deer to test the younger ones.  When beaten, the mantle is passed.  It is literally Nature.

Szanthax

Caelan said:

Szanthax said:

Caelan said:

I was picked on by everyone... from like... grade school through college. Computer nerd... dork.. fag. Yep got it all. Now i'm the coolest kid in school.

That being said I don't agree with bullying and I don't think it made me a better person today. I know that is not where your post was directed but... that how i read.

Why were you picked on for smoking?   

And yeah, but in the game, as in nature, you can't step into a coliseum or a ring and NOT have people "test' you.  Same with a battlefield, or even just being the newest gay guy at the college IT desk (I still love you - you know what I mean damnit!).  I'm a hunter and fisher IRL.  The best lure for fish, is an injured fish.  The genetics of the herd require the strongest deer to test the younger ones.  When beaten, the mantle is passed.  It is literally Nature.

I love the animal and coliseum analogies. Have we really risen above the basic primal instinct of a fish? Are we any better than the gladiators that fought in the coliseum? Is this prison rules and we have to test every new recruit? I just don't know anymore. The socialist in my says yes... we have... the realist... not so much.

I don't know I have a lot of conflicting thoughts. I test people I work with. I throw them in the fire... I want to see if they sink or if they swim. But it's based on their work, and how they react based on when things go wrong, because they always do. It's not because they are different, the newest gay guy, or a wounded fish.

Asmodron

With all these posts, I had hoped there would be some log of the introduction of the 2 new tsol'teth. What a let down

Frederich

Be a part of the coordination and you might get some dead ass logs punk.

Caelan

Szanthax said:

I love the animal and coliseum analogies. Have we really risen above the basic primal instinct of a fish? Are we any better than the gladiators that fought in the coliseum? Is this prison rules and we have to test every new recruit? I just don't know anymore. The socialist in my says yes... we have... the realist... not so much.

I don't know I have a lot of conflicting thoughts. I test people I work with. I throw them in the fire... I want to see if they sink or if they swim. But it's based on their work, and how they react based on when things go wrong, because they always do. It's not because they are different, the newest gay guy, or a wounded fish.

This is essentially that... a new PvPer enters the work force and needs to be stress tested /hazed / whatever to see if they have the skin to stay and play, or if they will wash out and bash all day. And there is a line that can be crossed obviously by that one employee, Paul, who is just a dick and wants to break your spirit (griefer). Sometimes he does and the other employee quits and sometimes the employee doesn't, and is a stronger employee for it - and will always remember what a complete dick Paul was and that he can't be trusted with shit. Paul is a dick. dont be like Paul.

The main difference is that I dont think most PvPers are like "lol this guy doesnt look/talk/etc like me so Im going to ruin his life"  You never know, that dude you're testing might think you're fucking w him because you somehow found out he has 3 toes or that *HE* is gay and doesnt know you are too, or literally whatever - when it is just a check on his resolve, you know. And if there is a PAUL in there, it is likely to exacerbate the new employee's stress when you keep testing him too until he think "omg everyone here is an asshole". You never had a boss or supervisor that gave you shit and you thought hated you - only to find out they just wanted to make sure you knew/could handle your tasks?

Korben

Caelan said:

I get it. But if/when you go/went to high school, did the seniors fuck w you? How about college? (Going to guess no military?)

High school definitely sucked for a while. College, not so much after the traditional first week hazing (engineering major... we were all too busy passing by the skin of our teeth to have time to mess with each other). The military hasn't been a problem at all (granted I'm not in uniform - civil services employee) but aside from the odd troubled individual there is a general atmosphere of respect that you don't find in a private sector job.

Kresslack

Szanthax said:

ouchies

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/u5CpOhtD

How did that even happen? I didn't even see an attack (unless it got cut out?).