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Gold Generation

ExelethrilExelethril Member Posts: 3,347 @@ - Legendary Achaean
In my opinion, gold caps are a poor mechanic that punishes creativity/hard work in regards to game mechanics.

I suggest introducing IC items that are non-permanent but are powerful enough to make people want them.

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Sarathai
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Comments

  • SarathaiSarathai Member Posts: 2,139 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    To add something to this instead of a Like button, I think shrouds and heron feathers should really be purchasable by gold anyway. I don't know how much of a sink they'd create if they were sold for gold, though.

    And if an auction is being done, then gold-only is also viable for sucking gold out of bank accounts.
    - (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place."
    - With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
    - (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
    - Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
    - Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."



    Averi
  • AustereAustere TennesseeMember Posts: 2,231 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sarapis said:
    In my opinion, gold caps are a poor mechanic that punishes creativity/hard work in regards to game mechanics.

    I suggest introducing IC items that are non-permanent but are powerful enough to make people want them.
    How is running a bashing script to generate gold creative or hard work? 
    I almost defended against this statement, but then I realized that this nerf doesn't even effect people like me.  You almost got me, boss. 
  • AnedhelAnedhel Member Posts: 2,367 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Customisations for gold through the customisation system please! I'd dump a ton of money if that was put in :(
    Nieelensars
  • KlendathuKlendathu Eye of the StormMember Posts: 3,171 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Anedhel said:
    Customisations for gold through the customisation system please! I'd dump a ton of money if that was put in :(
    This exists... CFS to convert gold to credits, then convert to bound credits, then request customisation. :trollface:


    Tharos, the Announcer of Delos shouts, "It's near the end of the egghunt and I still haven't figured out how to pronounce Clean-dat-hoo."
  • AnedhelAnedhel Member Posts: 2,367 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Go away :/
  • KlendathuKlendathu Eye of the StormMember Posts: 3,171 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    The problem with allowing customisations to be purchased directly with gold is that it sets a value for credits.

    Customisation 100cr or 600000 gp means a credit is valued at 6000 gp.

    Tharos, the Announcer of Delos shouts, "It's near the end of the egghunt and I still haven't figured out how to pronounce Clean-dat-hoo."
    AntidasAereidhna
  • AlrenaAlrena Member Posts: 647 @ - Epic Achaean
    Could do what they did with housing and make it cost commodities instead. Silver, gold, platinum, gems,... promotes that market too!
    image
    AnedhelAereidhna
  • AustereAustere TennesseeMember Posts: 2,231 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Klendathu said:
    The problem with allowing customisations to be purchased directly with gold is that it sets a value for credits.

    Customisation 100cr or 600000 gp means a credit is valued at 6000 gp.
    Why leave credit option then?  It doesn't even have to be relevant to the credit value.  500k for nondecay, 500k resetting.  
    Anedhel
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,769 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Austere said:
    Klendathu said:
    The problem with allowing customisations to be purchased directly with gold is that it sets a value for credits.

    Customisation 100cr or 600000 gp means a credit is valued at 6000 gp.
    Why leave credit option then?  It doesn't even have to be relevant to the credit value.  500k for nondecay, 500k resetting.  
    We're still going to know that a customisation used to cost 50 credits, and therefore a lot of people are going to say that a credit is valued by the administration at X/50 gold, where X is the new gold cost.
  • ExelethrilExelethril Member Posts: 3,347 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sarapis said:
    In my opinion, gold caps are a poor mechanic that punishes creativity/hard work in regards to game mechanics.

    I suggest introducing IC items that are non-permanent but are powerful enough to make people want them.
    How is running a bashing script to generate gold creative or hard work? 
    Well, I would think giving people reasons to spend more time playing Achaea then reasons to not play Achaea would be healthier for your game. This could be done by increasing demand for gold via introducing "powerful" temporary items that can only be bought with gold.

    Then again, this only affects a minority of people but I don't think stifling an addictive aspect of your game is a solution.

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  • XadenXaden Member Posts: 2,315 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sarapis said:
    In my opinion, gold caps are a poor mechanic that punishes creativity/hard work in regards to game mechanics.

    I suggest introducing IC items that are non-permanent but are powerful enough to make people want them.
    How is running a bashing script to generate gold creative or hard work? 
    I hit the cap for the first time today, after probably around 8 hours of low key bashing - averaging <25k per hour - over the previous 24. If it wasn't for the reset coming at the beginning of the new in game month I'd likely not be signing in this evening. That's one less body in realms interacting with new players, and i'd like to think making the in game experience a little better. Maybe it's juat me, but discouraging people from spending more time in game seems like a bad business model.
         He is a coward who has to bring two friends as backup to jump people hunting.

    SiduriDrot
  • SzanthaxSzanthax San DiegoMember Posts: 1,906 @ - Epic Achaean
    Xaden said:
    Sarapis said:
    In my opinion, gold caps are a poor mechanic that punishes creativity/hard work in regards to game mechanics.

    I suggest introducing IC items that are non-permanent but are powerful enough to make people want them.
    How is running a bashing script to generate gold creative or hard work? 
    I hit the cap for the first time today, after probably around 8 hours of low key bashing - averaging <25k per hour - over the previous 24. If it wasn't for the reset coming at the beginning of the new in game month I'd likely not be signing in this evening. That's one less body in realms interacting with new players, and i'd like to think making the in game experience a little better. Maybe it's juat me, but discouraging people from spending more time in game seems like a bad business model.
    I'd wondered if you'd capped



    Siduri
  • XadenXaden Member Posts: 2,315 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Yeah... It was balls... 20 gold droppong out of a mhun keeper, mental.
         He is a coward who has to bring two friends as backup to jump people hunting.

  • PenwizePenwize Member Posts: 1,479 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    @Sarapis said:
    In my opinion, gold caps are a poor mechanic that punishes creativity/hard work in regards to game mechanics.

    I suggest introducing IC items that are non-permanent but are powerful enough to make people want them.
    How is running a bashing script to generate gold creative or hard work? 
    Um ... wow, where do I begin?  Exploring bashing places, finding optimal routes to minimize travel time, finding optimal use of battlerage, testing and selecting damage abilities, optimizing shield response, optimizing kill priorities, finding better curing strategies (vs some areas) and defense responses, etc.  Redo all of that every time there's a change, a new area, or something else new that affects any of those facets to bashing.  I could go on, but hopefully you see the point. 

    The notion that there is no creativity in bashing, or that developing my capacity to bash as I do is somehow not work, is almost absurd.  Do you seriously mean to discredit the hundreds of hours (and admittedly, thousands of credits) I and others have poured into bashing?
    ExelethrilSenaAnariaDrot
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,769 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    I hardly see it as discouraging people from being in-game. It's discouraging people from being in-game participating in what is usually a solo activity, generally off-plane or on a faraway island where interactions are minimal or even non-existent. Your ability to do other things (and actually make the game experience a little better) isn't really affected, though if the cap is as low as ~200k that's definitely disappointing.

    Anedhel
  • KlendathuKlendathu Eye of the StormMember Posts: 3,171 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Over what period is the cap? Per hour / per 24 hours / something else?

    Tharos, the Announcer of Delos shouts, "It's near the end of the egghunt and I still haven't figured out how to pronounce Clean-dat-hoo."
  • AchimrstAchimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I have played a lot of games and not that anyone cares what I think but I feel if you want to control gold generation is to just expand the mining idea to include denizens that we hunt. Kill an animal get leather, bone, any other assorted parts that can be used for it. If people want to just get gold make humanoid denizens redeemable for gold as a part of some kind of city quest for the corpse and equipment, maybe a trophy system to hang up very strong denizen corpses that are worth more gold, that decreases the gold amount based on how many have been turned in. Turn burdock into a way to generate cloth and rope and maybe a combat system around trees, because we know us Eleusians don't want you to cut down trees. So we can harvest wood from fallen trees like the ones that fall over constantly in the Rheodad and maybe some mechanic so cities that aren't strictly Mhaldorian can attack the forest by cutting down trees. Either way, making a bashing and passive way to generate gold that adds to the immersion and economy of the game. I now balance would be a huge issue to likely increasing the commodity needs for certain commodities that could easily be saturated might help as well as a 'oops I fucked up skinning that deer' mechanic.

    Either way that's just my idea, LET THE MOCKING BEGIN! (╯° _°)╯︵ ┻━┻
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    edited June 2016
    Penwize said:
    @Sarapis said:
    In my opinion, gold caps are a poor mechanic that punishes creativity/hard work in regards to game mechanics.

    I suggest introducing IC items that are non-permanent but are powerful enough to make people want them.
    How is running a bashing script to generate gold creative or hard work? 
    Um ... wow, where do I begin?  Exploring bashing places, finding optimal routes to minimize travel time, finding optimal use of battlerage, testing and selecting damage abilities, optimizing shield response, optimizing kill priorities, finding better curing strategies (vs some areas) and defense responses, etc.  Redo all of that every time there's a change, a new area, or something else new that affects any of those facets to bashing.  I could go on, but hopefully you see the point. 

    The notion that there is no creativity in bashing, or that developing my capacity to bash as I do is somehow not work, is almost absurd.  Do you seriously mean to discredit the hundreds of hours (and admittedly, thousands of credits) I and others have poured into bashing?
    I think that running a script to bash has no value to the game, at all, and that the only reason people aren't permashrubbed for using scripts to generate gold is that it's too much work to patrol for, leaving us to only ban people if we catch them running scripts while "not afk". In fact, not only does it have no value to the game, it actively hurts the game by artificially boosting the gold generation capacity of people via removing the need to actually be playing the game. That extra gold hurts everybody else by devaluing gold.




  • SzanthaxSzanthax San DiegoMember Posts: 1,906 @ - Epic Achaean
    I just want goooold.



  • ArmaliArmali Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 1,115 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    I agree with what @Atalkez says. 

    @Xaden talks about 250k a day and says that sucks. Man, I've made maybe 700k in my entire time playing Achaea as an unartied level 85. All two months of it. 250k a day? That's nuts to me. 

    I also agree with what he says about bashing - when was the last time there was a bashing change? Last time a new area got released? I think you're being a little disingenuous, @Penwize, with how much effort goes into that. I spent about eight hours over three days setting up the framework and bulk of a hunting system. I can hack out a strategy for an area in about 2-3 minutes - the work is all front-loaded, and once you have your architecture built up, it's not that big of a deal.
  • IsmayIsmay Member Posts: 648 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Just as a quick note, not everyone who bashes runs scripts. I am extremely old school in that regard. I have macros for each bashing attack. Yes, I press a series of buttons over and over again! 

    All I ask is please, please don't parrot Aetolia and remove gold generation from bashing. I'm not sure if they completely removed it or severely reduced it to the point of laughable absurdity. In either case, their players mainly use questing for gold generation now. Questing has never been an activity I partake in, or enjoy in the slightest, in any of these games. There's a reason why Aetolia is the only ire I don't have a char on, waiting to be brought out of dormancy if I ever get the itch to play.

    We've already made bashing worse, let's not kill it. :)
    TrillianaAetheleAereidhnaHellen
  • AesiAesi Member Posts: 1,222 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited June 2016
    So much that.

     I'll just buy credits for gold, because after bashing for multiple solid days of 8 hours a day to Dragon it just puts me off. (And I am aware I was by no means required to bash to dragon that hard, and I realize I'm probably contributing to the problem this way but I can't stand bashing.)

    And here I am bashing on an alt while I watch TV at nights again. Help!

    Anyway, while I do completely understand why automated bashing upsets you guys as creators of the game, it's frustratingly boring.

    I just don't think the problem is 100% of the players blame, the system could probably use work. Being as this is my first MUD I have nothing to compare it to but I am no stranger to MMO grinding.

    However kill the monster dead to level up is tried and true so I don't really know the answer. Perhaps a lighter curve? However I know this was already addressed once before.




    Aereidhna
  • IsmayIsmay Member Posts: 648 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Haha, I can't fathom raking in that much gold in a single day, honestly. Don't guess I'm efficient enough at bashing to be in the "top tier." It's funny to think that there is a top tier of bashing. Ismay is, I think, around level 83. When I play more seriously than I do now, I do good to bring in 12 credits worth per irl day, and that isn't even earned through bashing (looking at you @Khaibit).

    I can agree that extraordinarily high gold generation is a problem, but I don't want them to get trigger happy and go too far with the nerfs and changes. It's been known to happen!

    I also agree with those who think that the recent promotions make a large impact on credit sale prices.
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    Atalkez said:
    Penwize said:
    @Sarapis said:
    In my opinion, gold caps are a poor mechanic that punishes creativity/hard work in regards to game mechanics.

    I suggest introducing IC items that are non-permanent but are powerful enough to make people want them.
    How is running a bashing script to generate gold creative or hard work? 
    Um ... wow, where do I begin?  Exploring bashing places, finding optimal routes to minimize travel time, finding optimal use of battlerage, testing and selecting damage abilities, optimizing shield response, optimizing kill priorities, finding better curing strategies (vs some areas) and defense responses, etc.  Redo all of that every time there's a change, a new area, or something else new that affects any of those facets to bashing.  I could go on, but hopefully you see the point. 

    The notion that there is no creativity in bashing, or that developing my capacity to bash as I do is somehow not work, is almost absurd.  Do you seriously mean to discredit the hundreds of hours (and admittedly, thousands of credits) I and others have poured into bashing?


    Bashing is not fun. It's just not. Generally people bash because they have to (levels, gold), not because they want to. T
    In other words, bashing without scripts is actual work. ;)
    AchimrstTyamatSobriquetJadys
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,099 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited June 2016
    Sarapis said:
    Atalkez said:
    Penwize said:
    @Sarapis said:
    In my opinion, gold caps are a poor mechanic that punishes creativity/hard work in regards to game mechanics.

    I suggest introducing IC items that are non-permanent but are powerful enough to make people want them.
    How is running a bashing script to generate gold creative or hard work? 
    Um ... wow, where do I begin?  Exploring bashing places, finding optimal routes to minimize travel time, finding optimal use of battlerage, testing and selecting damage abilities, optimizing shield response, optimizing kill priorities, finding better curing strategies (vs some areas) and defense responses, etc.  Redo all of that every time there's a change, a new area, or something else new that affects any of those facets to bashing.  I could go on, but hopefully you see the point. 

    The notion that there is no creativity in bashing, or that developing my capacity to bash as I do is somehow not work, is almost absurd.  Do you seriously mean to discredit the hundreds of hours (and admittedly, thousands of credits) I and others have poured into bashing?


    Bashing is not fun. It's just not. Generally people bash because they have to (levels, gold), not because they want to. T
    In other words, bashing without scripts is actual work. ;)
    Yes, and this is a game. It should not be the kind of dreary, boring, uninspiring work it is. That is what Atalkez means.

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

    AtalkezBorranAereidhnaDrot
  • AtalkezAtalkez Member Posts: 4,841 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sarapis said:
    Atalkez said:
    Penwize said:
    @Sarapis said:
    In my opinion, gold caps are a poor mechanic that punishes creativity/hard work in regards to game mechanics.

    I suggest introducing IC items that are non-permanent but are powerful enough to make people want them.
    How is running a bashing script to generate gold creative or hard work? 
    Um ... wow, where do I begin?  Exploring bashing places, finding optimal routes to minimize travel time, finding optimal use of battlerage, testing and selecting damage abilities, optimizing shield response, optimizing kill priorities, finding better curing strategies (vs some areas) and defense responses, etc.  Redo all of that every time there's a change, a new area, or something else new that affects any of those facets to bashing.  I could go on, but hopefully you see the point. 

    The notion that there is no creativity in bashing, or that developing my capacity to bash as I do is somehow not work, is almost absurd.  Do you seriously mean to discredit the hundreds of hours (and admittedly, thousands of credits) I and others have poured into bashing?


    Bashing is not fun. It's just not. Generally people bash because they have to (levels, gold), not because they want to. T
    In other words, bashing without scripts is actual work. ;)
    Yeah, sure it is.

    But I don't play a game to do work. I play a game to play a game. 


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
    TrillianaAereidhna
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    edited June 2016
    Shirszae said:
    Sarapis said:
    Atalkez said:
    Penwize said:
    @Sarapis said:
    In my opinion, gold caps are a poor mechanic that punishes creativity/hard work in regards to game mechanics.

    I suggest introducing IC items that are non-permanent but are powerful enough to make people want them.
    How is running a bashing script to generate gold creative or hard work? 
    Um ... wow, where do I begin?  Exploring bashing places, finding optimal routes to minimize travel time, finding optimal use of battlerage, testing and selecting damage abilities, optimizing shield response, optimizing kill priorities, finding better curing strategies (vs some areas) and defense responses, etc.  Redo all of that every time there's a change, a new area, or something else new that affects any of those facets to bashing.  I could go on, but hopefully you see the point. 

    The notion that there is no creativity in bashing, or that developing my capacity to bash as I do is somehow not work, is almost absurd.  Do you seriously mean to discredit the hundreds of hours (and admittedly, thousands of credits) I and others have poured into bashing?


    Bashing is not fun. It's just not. Generally people bash because they have to (levels, gold), not because they want to. T
    In other words, bashing without scripts is actual work. ;)
    Yes, and this is a game. It should not be the kind of dreary, boring, uninspiring work it is. That is what Atalkez means.
    This thread started because a player was complaining that 'hard work' is devalued by this. So is hard work good or bad? You seem to be saying hard work is bad. He seems to be saying hard work is good. 

    This is a multiplayer game world with a player to player economy. Therefore, the idea is that to earn more, you will have to do more. That is the balance in the system. People running a script 12 hours a day, day in and day out, and driving down the value of gold breaks that system. Similarly, just because you don't like aiming in an FPS doesn't make aimbots ok, and doesn't mean they don't break the system.

    Further, the people being throttled don't need to bash up to 800k gold/day (which was the top end we were seeing). We both know most of the players in the game get along just fine without earning that much. 

    AtalkezYselaAetheleAereidhna
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