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Gold Generation

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  • JhuiJhui Member Posts: 1,958 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I'm sure the 4-10 people it affects are all auto-bashing while doing other things (aka not really taking part in achaea).  It does kinda suck for the few newer people to high-level bashing that wanna go autistic one weekend and get loaded, but I think it'll eventually just result in people auto-ing the other parts of achaea because they're suddenly more lucrative.

    It's a good nerf just because bashing was the best gold generator, but it may just turn into the same dragons taking over the other areas of the game.  May just need more daily/weekly/monthly, autoable or non-autoable objectives that reward in straight credits (small amounts so people still want to buy credits) so people don't feel like they can't afford credits if they only play a small amount of time, but still feel they need to login to get these rewards.


    image
    AnedhelYselaShara
  • TahquilTahquil Member Posts: 4,402 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited June 2016
    Theoretically credit prices should drop some. Instead of people having >500k everyday and being able to play fast and lose with the credit market. Instead, they've been put on a bit of a budget. Instead of buying 80 credits @8000 gold they'll be restricted to 40. Less credits being bought at the high prices should mean people starting to sell them cheaper to get that instant sale or people tightening purse strings and looking to get better bang for their now restricted Buck.
    Aethele
  • SarathaiSarathai Member Posts: 2,139 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Tahquil said:
    Theoretically credit prices should drop some. Instead of people having >500k everyday and being able to play fast and lose with the credit market. Instead, they've been put on a bit of a budget. Instead of buying 80 credits @8000 gold they'll be restricted to 40. Less credits being bought at the high prices should mean people starting to sell them cheaper to get that instant sale or people tightening purse strings and looking to get better bang for their now restricted Buck.
    Right now I wish they were at 8k per.
    - (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place."
    - With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
    - (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
    - Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
    - Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."



  • TahquilTahquil Member Posts: 4,402 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    And everyone else not in the top ten wish they were in the 6k range :)
    AtalkezAhmetAerekAntidas
  • AtalkezAtalkez Member Posts: 5,066 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    8k per might be acceptable for those of us who were making ridiculous amounts of gold bashing, but for the vast majority, they're still simply priced out.

    The gambling promotions, obviously, had an adverse impact on the credit market. I don't think anyone is foolish enough to attempt to say this isn't part of the issue. It is. However, credits were still available, and there are credits still available. So the gambling promotions didn't decimate the market.

    What did, however, was the sudden need of high-level people to get lessons - where they weren't needing those before (multiclass). Now, suddenly, anyone who wanted another class was forced to purchase it through credits (assuming no brainer was gone already), which leads to them attempting to purchase more than they would have prior. I think it's also a logical leap to say that the majority of people buy their credits IG, not OOC - which, with the arties/knowledge they now commanded a larger portion of the pie. 

    Couple this with the influx of new players, artied, aiming to get higher level and further augment their arties (retirement), and then obviously the promotions, and we've had a steady increase in CFS prices for the last 6 months.

    I still am of the opinion that removing credit > lessons swaps, and putting them entirely on a gold market would relive the credit market of a really big drain that isn't going anywhere.


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
    ShirszaeAhmetTahquil
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,288 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    If July isn't a % bonus to credit purchases or a tiered Mayan Crown trade, I can easily see CFS hitting 11-12k by August.

    Either that needs to happen, or some other huge gold sink needs to come into the game. It's getting ridiculous for the new players, really. Tritransing at current CFS prices w/o lesson bonus is nearly 8 million gold (7976400), probably somewhere around like 5 or 6 with the lesson bonus.
  • BlujixapugBlujixapug Member Posts: 1,833 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sarapis said:

    Hudson Hawk [...] terrible [...] pretty bad.

    How dare you.

    Hudson Hawk is to Bruce Willis as Jingle All the Way is to Arnold Schwarzenegger.
    image
    AustereTrilliana
  • XadenXaden Member Posts: 2,315 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Ok... from what I can gather over the last two days :  between 150k and 200k per achaean month is deemed an acceptable gold haul.
         He is a coward who has to bring two friends as backup to jump people hunting.

  • ExelethrilExelethril Member Posts: 3,354 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I guess it'll be interesting to see what happens to the stock credit market. Achaexit?

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  • BleakBleak Member Posts: 350 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    You have recovered balance on all limbs.
    You rip into Shale Ironrock with your massive, deadly claws.
    You have scored a CRITICAL hit!
    You have slain Shale Ironrock, retrieving the corpse. 

    A large pile of sovereigns spills from the corpse.
    You feel a surge of energy course through your body as a sycophantic shoulder cape feeds upon the 
    lifeforce of your fallen foe.
    (svof): Your max health increased by 89h/0% to 9215.
    1940h, 7022m, 37588e, 27358w cekdb -  
    You may drink another health or mana elixir. (4.258s)
    1940h, 7007m, 37588e, 27358w cekdb -  (-15m, 0.2%) (sip health)
    You take a drink from a purple heartwood vial.
    The elixir heals and soothes you.
    3542h, 7007m, 37588e, 27358w cekdb -  (+1602h, 17.4%) 
    You almost collapse in pain as Clynalia, the Tiger smashes you with a bone crunching blow.
    Your shield completely absorbs the damage.
    3542h, 7007m, 37588e, 27358w cekdb -  
    You have recovered balance on all limbs.
    You pick up 169 gold sovereigns. (8.903s)
    4002h, 7397m, 37628e, 27358w cexkdb -  (+460h, 5.0%, +390m, 5.0%) 
    You put 169 gold sovereigns in a canvas backpack.

    I just hit the gold cap. I made about 150k in the last 4 hours of bashing. 
  • BleakBleak Member Posts: 350 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited June 2016
    You barrel into a mhun guard and knock him to the ground before stomping over his prone form.
    You have scored a CRITICAL hit!
    You have slain a mhun guard, retrieving the corpse.
    A small pile of sovereigns spills from the corpse.
    You feel a surge of energy course through your body as a sycophantic shoulder cape feeds upon the 
    lifeforce of your fallen foe.
    (svof): Your max health increased by 88h/0% to 9392.
    9304h, 7812m, 37390e, 27559w cxkdb -  
    You can use another Battlerage ability again. Available abilities: Dragonspit
    9304h, 7812m, 37390e, 27577w cxkdb - 48% 
    A mhun archer skewers you with a well-placed jab.
    8853h, 7812m, 37390e, 27577w cxkdb - 48% (-451h, 4.8%) 
    You bleed 54 health.
    8799h, 7812m, 37390e, 27577w cxkdb - 48% (-54h, 0.6%) 
    You have recovered equilibrium.
    You pick up 457 gold sovereigns. (4.874s)
    8799h, 7797m, 37430e, 27577w cexkdb - 48% (-15m, 0.2%) (summon acid)
    You put 457 gold sovereigns in a canvas backpack.


    Seconds later the cap seems to be gone again. Wtf?

    /edit: Cap is back again. But only on some kills. 20 gold from a mhun knight, 360 from a keeper. 
  • XadenXaden Member Posts: 2,315 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Bleak said:
    You barrel into a mhun guard and knock him to the ground before stomping over his prone form.
    You have scored a CRITICAL hit!
    You have slain a mhun guard, retrieving the corpse.
    A small pile of sovereigns spills from the corpse.

    You pick up 457 gold sovereigns. (4.874s)



    Seconds later the cap seems to be gone again. Wtf?
    Not gone, there must have been gold on the ground already.

    Small is < 100 if I recall correctly.
         He is a coward who has to bring two friends as backup to jump people hunting.

  • BleakBleak Member Posts: 350 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    So the cap is 150 then? That's quite a rough cap.  Then again... no more feeling guilty for afk'ing while I could be making gold. Cause I can't make the gold anymore. 10 minutes on the roulette table gives me more profit :p
  • XadenXaden Member Posts: 2,315 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Bleak said:
    So the cap is 150 then? That's quite a rough cap.  Then again... no more feeling guilty for afk'ing while I could be making gold. Cause I can't make the gold anymore. 10 minutes on the roulette table gives me more profit :p
    I had it at around 170, i think. But could be wrong. Either way, it's 3 hours or less of proper dragon bashing.
         He is a coward who has to bring two friends as backup to jump people hunting.

  • BleakBleak Member Posts: 350 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    So... I just lost 170k on the roulette wheel. I guess that means I'm done for the rest of the day. Really should fix my mouse, so I can play Overwatch again. 
    Rangor
  • ExelethrilExelethril Member Posts: 3,354 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    What are the drawbacks of putting a limit on how many credits people can buy on the market per day instead of gimping the gold generation mechanic?

    Also, why not introduce powerful non-perma things that can only be bought via a ridiculous amount of gold? Some people (not me) enjoy the aspect of farming stuff to make their characters stronger, which is a common aspect of most MMORPG games.

    [ SnB PvP Guide | Link ]

    [ Runewarden Sparring Videos | Link ]
    Aethele
  • XadenXaden Member Posts: 2,315 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    What are the drawbacks of putting a limit on how many credits people can buy on the market per day instead of gimping the gold generation mechanic?
    There's an idea. 
         He is a coward who has to bring two friends as backup to jump people hunting.

    Siduri
  • SarathaiSarathai Member Posts: 2,139 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited June 2016
    Bleak said:
    So the cap is 150 then? That's quite a rough cap.  Then again... no more feeling guilty for afk'ing while I could be making gold. Cause I can't make the gold anymore. 10 minutes on the roulette table gives me more profit :p
    Bleak said:
    So... I just lost 170k on the roulette wheel. I guess that means I'm done for the rest of the day. Really should fix my mouse, so I can play Overwatch again. 
    I'm just going to say that these two posts are quite amusing.
    - (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place."
    - With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
    - (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
    - Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
    - Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."



    RangorAziikArval
  • BleakBleak Member Posts: 350 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Seriously.. normally I'm really good at roulette! Skills, yo!
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    What are the drawbacks of putting a limit on how many credits people can buy on the market per day instead of gimping the gold generation mechanic?

    Because the issue is the value of gold, not the exchange rate between gold and credits. The latter is a function of the former, not the other way around.
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    edited June 2016
    Sarapis said:

    Hudson Hawk [...] terrible [...] pretty bad.

    How dare you.

    Hudson Hawk is to Bruce Willis as Jingle All the Way is to Arnold Schwarzenegger.
    Well, I had to say that as a defensive play so that I didn't expose my love of the movie.
    Post edited by Sarapis on
  • ArmaliArmali Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean

    Grandue said:
    As is it takes realistically 400-500 hours of bashing at 25k per hour for someone to trans their first class...
    That seems... disingenuous?

    25k per hour, at current prices of 10k per cr would mean 21.25 per hour.

    Assume 1738 per skills. 5214 lessons. That's about 246 hours. So already your total is wildly inflated by 100%. You mentioned curatives and weapons and armor. That's trivial. Add in another hour or two. 248.

    But wait, you get lessons and credits for leveling up. Let's say Logosian, which is a nice, perk laden level that's not too crazy to get to. You get 200 bound credits total from leveling up from 1- 80, and roughly 395 lessons. So that's another 1495 lessons. If you take that into account, then you only need to bash gold for 175 hours.

    Now, you mentioned 'few hundred dollars' as an alternative to '500 hours'. So, I'm going to assume that these 'few hundred dollars' are strictly to trans skills.

    But that's not really true either: two no-brainer packages are twenty dollars, and the credit package is fifty dollars (since this is the person's first class, we can assume they can those options available to them).

    That's 2000 lessons and 300 cr, plus five tickets (let's set their value at 10cr per, conservatively).

    So that's 3860 lessons, which reduces the total we need to buy gold for to about 1358 -- which, tellingly, is less than the amount we'd get from bashing to Logosian.

    ---

    So it's either: bash for 248 hours, or, spend seventy dollars and bash to a level that you should be bashing to anyways.



    Atalkez
  • ArmaliArmali Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Sure, I'll believe it. I think mine averages at like, 5k an hour at 85 because I'm shoddy at it.

    But to cite certain numbers and then derive an incorrect conclusion to further an argument (the cost of entry being unbearably high, because, x y z) is disingenuous.

    The cost of entry /isn't/ from a real money/time perspective. It may be if you're just going to grind up, I won't disagree, but that's what increasing the bound credit rewards to leveling up and no-brainers were for -- because I imagine IRE admin noticed this issue and implemented those features however many years ago to address this exact issue.
  • AtalkezAtalkez Member Posts: 5,066 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited June 2016
    Also, while the lesson packs and the credit package are cheap, that's still requiring an outside source of investment that has nothing to do with the game itself.

    You can't tri-trans yourself without buying credits from the market, or buying the packages from the website. You can't tri-trans through leveling alone.

    Even if you could, if you want to participate in any facet of the game (Combat/Tradeskills/Seafaring) then you also need to various skills required for that (Survival, Avoidance, Tattoos, Vision, Miniskills for combat - Tradeskill - Sefaring) -- so while he may have been technically incorrect on the baseline requirements - it's not a stretch to say that to actually participate in any meaningful way in this game, you're essentially required to invest pretty heavily.

    Edit: To put it into perspective, I can go buy an Xbox One for $300, a game for $60 and I'm golden on that game in perpetuity assuming no mechanical failures. $360 for a single game, single purchase unless they come out with DLC or something. Now, as much as I love Achaea, it's not Skyrim. That $360 is 1200cr in Achaea. That's a single artefact. The bar for entry is much, much higher for Achaea than it is for most modern gaming.


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
  • ArmaliArmali Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Yeah, but it's not 'five hundred dollars' expensive, and his assessment was just for tri-transing your first skills.

    All your arguments are valid Atalkez, but make assumptions and include things that Grandue didn't originally.

    If he edited his post to change the gold per hour gain and then include all these other things you're mentioning, then sure, I'd probably have to delete my post.
    Atalkez
  • GrandueGrandue Member Posts: 382 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Armali said:

    Grandue said:
    As is it takes realistically 400-500 hours of bashing at 25k per hour for someone to trans their first class...
    That seems... disingenuous?

    25k per hour, at current prices of 10k per cr would mean 21.25 per hour.

    Assume 1738 per skills. 5214 lessons. That's about 246 hours. So already your total is wildly inflated by 100%. You mentioned curatives and weapons and armor. That's trivial. Add in another hour or two. 248.

    But wait, you get lessons and credits for leveling up. Let's say Logosian, which is a nice, perk laden level that's not too crazy to get to. You get 200 bound credits total from leveling up from 1- 80, and roughly 395 lessons. So that's another 1495 lessons. If you take that into account, then you only need to bash gold for 175 hours.

    Now, you mentioned 'few hundred dollars' as an alternative to '500 hours'. So, I'm going to assume that these 'few hundred dollars' are strictly to trans skills.

    But that's not really true either: two no-brainer packages are twenty dollars, and the credit package is fifty dollars (since this is the person's first class, we can assume they can those options available to them).

    That's 2000 lessons and 300 cr, plus five tickets (let's set their value at 10cr per, conservatively).

    So that's 3860 lessons, which reduces the total we need to buy gold for to about 1358 -- which, tellingly, is less than the amount we'd get from bashing to Logosian.

    ---

    So it's either: bash for 248 hours, or, spend seventy dollars and bash to a level that you should be bashing to anyways.



    You're not going to be making 25k per hour starting off nor are you going to be able to bash up all the gold you need for curatives to provide enough to cover you long enough to trans your skills in an extra hour or two of bashing. Not going to argue all the things you posted, it is beside the point and doesn't make a difference to the real point behind my post. Been playing for 15+ years and have played on several characters. 400-500hrs of bashing starting at level 5 for a truely new player to the game without spending RL money could be off 25-50 hours, but it is a close estimate made from actual observance and not simply adding together what is "possible". Could I take a new character and trans them in half that time? Absolutely, I already know the best routes and the best order to spend my lessons in to speed up my bashing ability and how to minimize my expenses, which scripts to install and such. A person who is new to Achaea and has to spend all that time experimenting and testing and tracking and learning? I highly doubt it. A person new to MUDs? Well, I wouldn't be making any bets on it.

    The point is that it takes an extremely long amount of time to trans your skills and "unlock" your full class skills with the current credit prices, all time that is spent mindlessly grinding away which others have referenced as being "work" not "play" and that is time that isn't being spent studying lore or completing house or city requirements or joining and exploring new organizations or orders or seafaring or any of the other dozens of things that actually immurse people and get them "hooked" on Achaea and continuing to come around year after year. Granted, there are some crazy people who LOVE the mindless bashing non stop for 10 hours and continue to do so because they like it and that is enough to hook them on Achaea, but they make up a very small portion of the population. I think a reasonable time investment to trans your classes should be closer to 80-100 hours of bashing. Whether that is obtained by increasing the lessons/credits from leveling up or by increasing the credits available on the market at a lower price or some other way it doesn't matter. If we want to hook more people and get them sticking around the rewards for time need to come faster at the start and then slow down when they've had enough time to get hooked for the long haul. 


    Penwize
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna beMember Posts: 3,370 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Not to mention you have people like me who have way more than 500 hours bashing and aren't even 90 yet u.u.
    Huh. Neat.
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