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Gold Generation

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  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,276 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Bashing/PvE in any MMO is mindless, inane work at the higher tiers. It's entirely unavoidable. The only way to ameliorate it is to offer multiple ways to tackle it.

    Don't want gold generation primarily in the hands of people running scripts all day? If only you had some sort of open-world exploration platform involving the sea, and vessels that could go on it. Things with big cloth blankets to catch the wind, and harbours full of delicious commodities that other harbours might want to exchange for gold.
    SiduriDrot
  • AtalkezAtalkez Member Posts: 4,842 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sarapis said:
    Shirszae said:
    Sarapis said:
    Atalkez said:
    Penwize said:
    @Sarapis said:
    In my opinion, gold caps are a poor mechanic that punishes creativity/hard work in regards to game mechanics.

    I suggest introducing IC items that are non-permanent but are powerful enough to make people want them.
    How is running a bashing script to generate gold creative or hard work? 
    Um ... wow, where do I begin?  Exploring bashing places, finding optimal routes to minimize travel time, finding optimal use of battlerage, testing and selecting damage abilities, optimizing shield response, optimizing kill priorities, finding better curing strategies (vs some areas) and defense responses, etc.  Redo all of that every time there's a change, a new area, or something else new that affects any of those facets to bashing.  I could go on, but hopefully you see the point. 

    The notion that there is no creativity in bashing, or that developing my capacity to bash as I do is somehow not work, is almost absurd.  Do you seriously mean to discredit the hundreds of hours (and admittedly, thousands of credits) I and others have poured into bashing?


    Bashing is not fun. It's just not. Generally people bash because they have to (levels, gold), not because they want to. T
    In other words, bashing without scripts is actual work. ;)
    Yes, and this is a game. It should not be the kind of dreary, boring, uninspiring work it is. That is what Atalkez means.
    This thread started because a player was complaining that 'hard work' is devalued by this. So is hard work good or bad? You seem to be saying hard work is bad. He seems to be saying hard work is good. 

    This is a multiplayer game world with a player to player economy. Therefore, the idea is that to earn more, you will have to do more. That is the balance in the system. People running a script 12 hours a day, day in and day out, and driving down the value of gold breaks that system. Similarly, just because you don't like aiming in an FPS doesn't make aimbots ok, and doesn't mean they don't break the system.

    Further, the people being throttled don't need to bash up to 800k gold/day (which was the top end we were seeing). We both know most of the players in the game get along just fine without earning that much. 

    I don't disagree with anything you're saying.

    I'm just saying for my 2 hours that I can keep an interest in bashing, the script makes it do-able instead of me giving up 30 minutes in. It's not a favorite part of the game to me, but it is the most efficient way to earn gold currently.


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
    Shirszae
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    Daeir said:
    Bashing/PvE in any MMO is mindless, inane work at the higher tiers. It's entirely unavoidable. The only way to ameliorate it is to offer multiple ways to tackle it.

    Don't want gold generation primarily in the hands of people running scripts all day? If only you had some sort of open-world exploration platform involving the sea, and vessels that could go on it. Things with big cloth blankets to catch the wind, and harbours full of delicious commodities that other harbours might want to exchange for gold.
    By making ships the chief way of earning gold, we'd be making second-class citizens out of our visually-impaired players, which is a pretty rough thing to do. Ultimately, it also makes no real difference to the fact that earning gold is going to be repetitive. 1 method, 5 methods - anything you play as long as some of you have played Achaea will get repetitive after that long. (And anything repetitive can be scripted, ultimately, because we can't control the client you're using and so can't control your scripting capabilities.)
    TyamatSiduriAethele
  • KietKiet Member Posts: 3,103 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Having more options does mean people can spice it up, though. Right now we do have a fair amount of options between bashing, questing (no, not all quests involve bashing!), mining, sea stuff, and so on. The problem is without throttling bashing, it always made the other options 'worse', but now people can consider the other options without feeling like they're missing out.
    JhuiAetheleSharaAereidhna
  • TeshaTesha Member Posts: 2,886 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I find bashing boring, honestly, and am not bothered by the gold cap. On the other hand, I wish quests were a bit more rewarding. Better gold and some protection against people monopolizing them would go a long way. Especially with the changes to increase gold from bashing. Increasing quest gold and adding monopoly protection would be great for the game, in my opinion. There are so many really great quests out there that are a lot of fun to do and figure out; I think either increasing the gold or experience provided from them would encourage people to go explore the game more. 

     i'm a rebel

  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna beMember Posts: 3,370 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Tesha said:
    I find bashing boring, honestly, and am not bothered by the gold cap. On the other hand, I wish quests were a bit more rewarding. Better gold and some protection against people monopolizing them would go a long way. Especially with the changes to increase gold from bashing. Increasing quest gold and adding monopoly protection would be great for the game, in my opinion. There are so many really great quests out there that are a lot of fun to do and figure out; I think either increasing the gold or experience provided from them would encourage people to go explore the game more. 
    It's kinda super disappointing doing those longer, more complex quests and getting like 500 gold at the end.

    I mean, on one hand, I love doing the quests. On the other, my fifteen minutes of effort is definitely not rewarded as much as thirty seconds of spamming 'kill something'.
    Huh. Neat.
    NieelensarsAereidhna
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,101 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    And thats assuming someone doesn't keel the quest npc over.

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

    AhmetAereidhna
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    Kiet said:
    Having more options does mean people can spice it up, though. Right now we do have a fair amount of options between bashing, questing (no, not all quests involve bashing!), mining, sea stuff, and so on. The problem is without throttling bashing, it always made the other options 'worse', but now people can consider the other options without feeling like they're missing out.
    Oh for sure. More options is good. It's just not an ultimate solution to the problem. Ultimately, the maxim in MUD/MMO development has always been 'you can't outrun the players.'
    Szanthax
  • KresslackKresslack Florida, United StatesMember Posts: 5,929 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Honestly I would prefer the old days of Telnet where you have to actually do stuff. I get that people want automation to make tedious tasks more manageable, but at the same time it can inhibit the desire to do anything yourself since there's a script someone will create and share.

    I've never been interested in bashing, it's just always been one of those things you have to do in order to get to a certain level of acceptability where you don't die ridiculously easily. Or in the case of Achaea, to hit Logosian so you don't have to sleep or eat all the time. It's not fun, and maybe it's not supposed to be. I can see both sides.

    Someone's advise to me to get dragon was to use a bashing script and have Netflix pulled up at the same time, because it made it less boring. It was like...really? Why be signed in at all then? Why not just watch Netflix?

    As great as scripting can be, and as creative as you can get with it, it takes out a lot of probability and risk and chance. Used to be, a fight in a MUD didn't boil down to who had the better triggers or a curing system, but who had the actual knowledge and could quickly transfer that to the game with clarity. A fight could have easily been determined by lack of herb/poison knowledge as it could a typo.

    Most people in this game of course want to earn a lot of gold, because it allows them to do more things. The fact that hunting is one of the primary ways of earning gold is a little lopsided to me to begin with. It's the same reason 80% of the shops are just filled with curatives, with the occasional shop filled with actual interesting things that people would buy if they weren't abhorrently priced for "display".


    YselaTrilliana
  • TahquilTahquil Member Posts: 4,172 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited June 2016
    When gold diminishing returns were rolled out the said most people will be unaffected. It is a rather vague attempt at consolation. I was wondering, now with the current tweak if you could give us an estimate percent wise of players affected?

    (I think forums aren't a good place to gauge actual affected populace numbers and it may be leading people to unnecessarily  worry)
  • KietKiet Member Posts: 3,103 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Well, how many people do you know that bash 300k+ in a day?
  • TahquilTahquil Member Posts: 4,172 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I'm flattered that you think I know or care for enough people to note their hunting habits.
    Grandue
  • SkyeSkye The Duchess BellatereMember, Seafaring Liason Posts: 2,818 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    If there were more reliable and lucrative ways of making gold, people would probably diversify their activities.

    Honestly as it stands now, I think gold generation is only half the issue here. Gold circulation also makes a difference and gold hardly exchanges hands between players except when buying credits off the market and other IG necessities.

    The more powerful you become in this game, the less actual necessities you have to spend on. For the most part, the ones who actually get rid gold from the game with any reliability are the ship owners, the miners and to a small degree, the crafters.

    Curatives, enchantments and inks are perennial, that's why nearly every shop in the game sells the same handful of items. They need at least curatives and inks to make their rent or their taxes.

    Clothing is very much optional as weather effects have little to no bearing on your activity apart from flavour. Some people are so covered in arties, they can simply be naked and nobody will notice.

    From the time you hit level 80, you neither need to sleep, nor eat. Of course I'm being shamelessly self-promoting when I say this, but how many people actually buy that bracelet of sustenance given how easy it is is to hit 80 these days?

    Commodities are such an expensive, scarcely used niche. A lot of us are still sitting on comms have basically next to no value because they have such limited use.

    So what are these higher end players actually spending their gold on apart from credits?

    Another thing I would be curious to know is what would happen if we eliminated the ability to trade exclusively in credits. Everyone favours exchange by credits because 1: you can make negotiations at a distance and complete the payment transaction on the spot. 2: credit transactions are viewed as more safe since administration *appears* to police them more stringently when it comes to scams.

    So what would happen if all player-player exchange was forced to be in gold? Instead of making the payment at 10 credits, you'd be forced either have that much gold on hand, or sell credits on the open market. I suspect it would push more credits onto the market, driving at least some the price down even during non-credit promos like globes etc.


    Melodie
  • CooperCooper IowaMember Posts: 4,869 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sarapis said:
    Penwize said:
    @Sarapis said:
    In my opinion, gold caps are a poor mechanic that punishes creativity/hard work in regards to game mechanics.

    I suggest introducing IC items that are non-permanent but are powerful enough to make people want them.
    How is running a bashing script to generate gold creative or hard work? 
    Um ... wow, where do I begin?  Exploring bashing places, finding optimal routes to minimize travel time, finding optimal use of battlerage, testing and selecting damage abilities, optimizing shield response, optimizing kill priorities, finding better curing strategies (vs some areas) and defense responses, etc.  Redo all of that every time there's a change, a new area, or something else new that affects any of those facets to bashing.  I could go on, but hopefully you see the point. 

    The notion that there is no creativity in bashing, or that developing my capacity to bash as I do is somehow not work, is almost absurd.  Do you seriously mean to discredit the hundreds of hours (and admittedly, thousands of credits) I and others have poured into bashing?
    I think that running a script to bash has no value to the game, at all, and that the only reason people aren't permashrubbed for using scripts to generate gold is that it's too much work to patrol for, leaving us to only ban people if we catch them running scripts while "not afk". In fact, not only does it have no value to the game, it actively hurts the game by artificially boosting the gold generation capacity of people via removing the need to actually be playing the game. That extra gold hurts everybody else by devaluing gold.




    Sarapis, you (and your team), built this game from the ground up, and it is awesome and has progressed very far since it started.

    It feels like you're still in the old mindset of 'triggers are bad'. I 100% understand the need to prevent auto gold generation. And while I understand the distaste for triggers/scripts/automation, I think you need to come to terms that this is what MUDs are now. If you permashrubbed every player who technically breaks the automation rules (for those wondering: a simple DOR or balance trigger to attack a target, or having a trigger to harvest a plant you see in a room, or having a do repeat to make primes or whatever, are all illegal as per help automation) you wouldn't have a playerbase left. Sure, shrub the people who can type 'bash moghedu', go afk, and come back to 15k gold and 5% experience. But the veiled threats you post from time to time about automation and shrubbing don't make anyone feel good. Decide whether you're actually going to punish people that technically break the automation rules, or decide to let it go. Don't come here and piss off the players who make your business successful. 

    PenwizeTrillianaRangorDrot
  • SzanthaxSzanthax San DiegoMember Posts: 1,906 @ - Epic Achaean
    Sarapis said:
    Kiet said:
    Having more options does mean people can spice it up, though. Right now we do have a fair amount of options between bashing, questing (no, not all quests involve bashing!), mining, sea stuff, and so on. The problem is without throttling bashing, it always made the other options 'worse', but now people can consider the other options without feeling like they're missing out.
    Oh for sure. More options is good. It's just not an ultimate solution to the problem. Ultimately, the maxim in MUD/MMO development has always been 'you can't outrun the players.'
    I think the term 'min/max' is proof of this. no matter what  you do, people are going to find the most efficient way to generate gold possible. or experience... or how to kill people... or how to mudsex. We're always trying to catch up to the latest advancement. I don't fault the game for holding down the 1%... damn I wish people got taxed like that in the US. khekhe



    Trilliana
  • KresslackKresslack Florida, United StatesMember Posts: 5,929 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Skye said:

    Commodities are such an expensive, scarcely used niche. A lot of us are still sitting on comms have basically next to no value because they have such limited use.
    I honestly would prefer if commodity accrual actual meant working for the commodities, instead of just assumed acquisition from the comm shops. To get wood, someone has to chop down a tree. For stone and ore, it has to be mined. Fish has to be caught, leather has to be cured, things have to be actually crafted.

    There's so much assumed activity by the unseen npc populace behind the scenes that these actions never happen. Achaea is slowly adopting models for these things that other, less popular MUDS use, and making them work in Achaea fashion. Mining and being able to build rooms using commodities and gold for example.

    Outside of gold and credits though, it doesn't seem as if the economy is very player driven at all. You can't send someone out to fell and log a tree and either sell the wood to a nearby village or deposit it into the city comm shop or even build anything with it, because -technically- there are no trees that can be done with. There are plenty of forest rooms and some trees that can be interacted with, but you can't do things like shake a tree and see if any fruit falls out, or plant a garden for the ingredients to use in cooking, or take wood commodity and turn it into basic tools and furniture.



    ShirszaeTrillianaHellenDrot
  • CooperCooper IowaMember Posts: 4,869 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Side note, the reason people can bash 60k+ an hour is because they've invested thousands of dollars into credits. Punishing those people for spending money that allowed them to generate gold faster is just insane to me. Especially (as I've previously posted) how artefacts have already been nerfed. Pre battlerage I could bash 100k an hour in dragonform (without rare minerals or any other gold boosting items). Now even if I perfectly use queueing to do those same routes I'll generate 75-80k on average, 90k at best. To be quite frank, it really pisses me off that my dollar investment in this game has been nerfed.

    Trilliana
  • TahquilTahquil Member Posts: 4,172 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited June 2016
    Actually, I know one that's earned his rates through bashing. It's a bit of a positive feedback system. Earn credits to buy artes to make you better at earning credits to but more artes that make you even better at earning credits ... And so on, furthering the gap between the average hunter and those 'top tier'.


    AetheleTrilliana
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna beMember Posts: 3,370 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    It's totally fine to put time into optimizing your bashing. There's still benefit for those who do. If you can cap in 30 minutes and it takes another dragon 4 hours to cap, that's an advantage. You have to put less time into bashing. You're the better basher, and you definitely reap the rewards of your credit and time investments. That's okay. That's great, actually. You have more time to devote to other things, or have to spend less time in Achaea for the same reward.

    What's not okay is using those investments to generate hundreds of thousands of gold every day while effectively afk, where a majority of the playerbase is stuck piddling around at a few thousand an hour, without so much time to devote to being mindless while your script runs.

    People with artefacts, or people who spend hours optimizing, etc, all still have advantages over those of us who don't (not to mention you can still bash for experience, talisman pieces and the like past the cap), they're just no longer advantages that crash the whole bloody economy and make us all suffer.
    Huh. Neat.
    AetheleAereidhnaDrot
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna beMember Posts: 3,370 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    AND I CAN *STARE* TOO @SARAPIS
    Huh. Neat.
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    edited June 2016
    Cooper said:
    Side note, the reason people can bash 60k+ an hour is because they've invested thousands of dollars into credits. Punishing those people for spending money that allowed them to generate gold faster is just insane to me.
    That's because you're looking at it from the perspective of what's good for you. I'm looking at it from the perspective of what's good for the game. Exactly similarly, just because someone spent a lot of money to be better at PvP doesn't mean we're going to be ok with someone killing other players for no reason 12 hours a day.
    Post edited by Sarapis on
    TyamatAtis
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    Tahquil said:
    Actually, I know one that's earned his rates through bashing. It's a bit of a positive feedback system. Earn credits to buy artes to make you better at earning credits to but more artes that make you even better at earning credits ... And so on, furthering the gap between the average hunter and those 'top tier'.


    Yes, this. The % of credits on the market bought by the top 10 people is insane. Of course they don't want the gravy train to end - can't blame them for that!
    AetheleNieelensars
  • TahquilTahquil Member Posts: 4,172 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Tahquil said:
    When gold diminishing returns were rolled out the said most people will be unaffected. It is a rather vague attempt at consolation. I was wondering, now with the current tweak if you could give us an estimate percent wise of players affected?

    (I think forums aren't a good place to gauge actual affected populace numbers and it may be leading people to unnecessarily  worry)
    @Sarapis
  • MakariosMakarios Administrator Posts: 1,801 Achaean staff
    Around four people over the course of the last 26 hours or so have been significantly affected.
    NieelensarsTahquilAereidhna
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    Kresslack said:
    Skye said:

    Commodities are such an expensive, scarcely used niche. A lot of us are still sitting on comms have basically next to no value because they have such limited use.
    I honestly would prefer if commodity accrual actual meant working for the commodities, instead of just assumed acquisition from the comm shops. To get wood, someone has to chop down a tree. For stone and ore, it has to be mined. Fish has to be caught, leather has to be cured, things have to be actually crafted.

    There's so much assumed activity by the unseen npc populace behind the scenes that these actions never happen. Achaea is slowly adopting models for these things that other, less popular MUDS use, and making them work in Achaea fashion. Mining and being able to build rooms using commodities and gold for example.

    Outside of gold and credits though, it doesn't seem as if the economy is very player driven at all. You can't send someone out to fell and log a tree and either sell the wood to a nearby village or deposit it into the city comm shop or even build anything with it, because -technically- there are no trees that can be done with. There are plenty of forest rooms and some trees that can be interacted with, but you can't do things like shake a tree and see if any fruit falls out, or plant a garden for the ingredients to use in cooking, or take wood commodity and turn it into basic tools and furniture.

    > I honestly would prefer if commodity accrual actual meant working for the commodities

    I'm not quite following here. Of the 16 things that are labeled comms, 11 of them are produced entirely by players. Herbs and minerals are also comms, just by a different name, and they're produced by players. That's like 50 additional things right there.

    > you can't do things like shake a tree and see if any fruit falls out

    There's literally an entire tradeskill devoted to this kind of thing though. You can gather fruit, grain, vegetables, eggs, milk, nuts, olives, sugarcane, lumic, cacao, etc. You can kill things and butcher them for meat. Those things are then used in other player skills, the product of which is sold to other players. 


    NieelensarsTyamatSkye
  • KresslackKresslack Florida, United StatesMember Posts: 5,929 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Technically anything can be a commodity if it's tradeable enough. I'm talking Comm Shop commodities such as bone, metal, wood, clothe, etc. A lot of them can now be gotten through the mining system, which is great, but if wood is needed, it would be great to be able to buy/craft a woodcutting axe and have a process of felling and logging the trees to produce the wood.

    As far as the Gathering tradeskill, it's great that it allows players to collect those materials just...kinda out of nowhere, as a result of being in the appropriate room, but I was speaking towards a more hands-on approach. Nuts and fruits coming from actual trees (which would require either private orchards or an understanding that cutting down all the trees and not allowing them to mature creates shortages) would be great. Killing creatures and butchering them for generic meat is just as lackluster. What about actually raising cattle and either using them to get milk or butchering them for beef, and bone, and hide? What about setting up a chicken coop and getting some chickens to either harvest the eggs, or butcher them for chicken meat, and feathers?

    Those are the type of interactions I'm talking about, which would make it more interesting in accruing these commodities, It gives people something to actually do besides pressing one button in a room or using one syntax to butcher and get all these things.

    Then the ability to use those basic materials and make things out of them. Wood into tools, furniture, etc which can then be priced out and sold by the players, not some denizen run shop.


  • CooperCooper IowaMember Posts: 4,869 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sarapis said:
    Cooper said:
    Side note, the reason people can bash 60k+ an hour is because they've invested thousands of dollars into credits. Punishing those people for spending money that allowed them to generate gold faster is just insane to me.
    That's because you're looking at it from the perspective of what's good for you. I'm looking at it from the perspective of what's good for the game. Exactly similarly, just because someone spent a lot of money to be better at PvP doesn't mean we're going to be ok with someone killing other players for no reason 12 hours a day.
    You're not looking at the whole perspective either. Achaea has run next to nothing but gambling promotions for the last 6 months, which has reduced actual credit purchases by a very large amount. Cities, houses, and individual players are all suffering because people are buying less credits to sell on the market for gold. That is directly IRE's fault and not a word has been said about it. I'm sure more revenue has been generated for you, but that does not mean it's better for the game. The gambling promotions are not much better than the freemium game apps that charge you $99.99 for the tiny chance of upgrading your character.

    The situation you described as 'exactly similar' regarding PvP is not even close to similar. PvP does not generate gold like bashing does. You can spend $3,000 on PvP but it doesn't get you anything except more fun from killing people. Spending 1600 credits on a lash, 800 credits on an SoA, 1000 credits on a sip ring, 350 credits on a regen ring, 1400 credits on a bracelet, 200 credits on a pendant, 800 credits on eagle wings, and 1250 credits on a +2 dex artefact, spending hundreds of hours bashing levels so my crits go up, all just so I can get 20k more gold per hour bashing than someone who invested $0 is kind of laughable.

    I personally don't care about a gold generation cap on bashing because I don't bash enough to hit it. I care about the direction Achaea has gone regarding reducing the benefits of artefacts while bashing by a very significant amount. Battlerage was shown off as making bashing more "interesting" and fun and whatever else was said, but it was really a very large nerf to the benefit of artefacts while bashing. That's what I care about.

    JosoulBlujixapugTrilliana
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna beMember Posts: 3,370 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Cooper said:
    Sarapis said:
    Cooper said:
    Side note, the reason people can bash 60k+ an hour is because they've invested thousands of dollars into credits. Punishing those people for spending money that allowed them to generate gold faster is just insane to me.
    That's because you're looking at it from the perspective of what's good for you. I'm looking at it from the perspective of what's good for the game. Exactly similarly, just because someone spent a lot of money to be better at PvP doesn't mean we're going to be ok with someone killing other players for no reason 12 hours a day.
    You're not looking at the whole perspective either. Achaea has run next to nothing but gambling promotions for the last 6 months, which has reduced actual credit purchases by a very large amount. Cities, houses, and individual players are all suffering because people are buying less credits to sell on the market for gold. That is directly IRE's fault and not a word has been said about it. I'm sure more revenue has been generated for you, but that does not mean it's better for the game. The gambling promotions are not much better than the freemium game apps that charge you $99.99 for the tiny chance of upgrading your character.

    The situation you described as 'exactly similar' regarding PvP is not even close to similar. PvP does not generate gold like bashing does. You can spend $3,000 on PvP but it doesn't get you anything except more fun from killing people. Spending 1600 credits on a lash, 800 credits on an SoA, 1000 credits on a sip ring, 350 credits on a regen ring, 1400 credits on a bracelet, 200 credits on a pendant, 800 credits on eagle wings, and 1250 credits on a +2 dex artefact, spending hundreds of hours bashing levels so my crits go up, all just so I can get 20k more gold per hour bashing than someone who invested $0 is kind of laughable.

    I personally don't care about a gold generation cap on bashing because I don't bash enough to hit it. I care about the direction Achaea has gone regarding reducing the benefits of artefacts while bashing by a very significant amount. Battlerage was shown off as making bashing more "interesting" and fun and whatever else was said, but it was really a very large nerf to the benefit of artefacts while bashing. That's what I care about.
    Ahmet said:
    It's totally fine to put time into optimizing your bashing. There's still benefit for those who do. If you can cap in 30 minutes and it takes another dragon 4 hours to cap, that's an advantage. You have to put less time into bashing. You're the better basher, and you definitely reap the rewards of your credit and time investments. That's okay. That's great, actually. You have more time to devote to other things, or have to spend less time in Achaea for the same reward.

    What's not okay is using those investments to generate hundreds of thousands of gold every day while effectively afk, where a majority of the playerbase is stuck piddling around at a few thousand an hour, without so much time to devote to being mindless while your script runs.

    People with artefacts, or people who spend hours optimizing, etc, all still have advantages over those of us who don't (not to mention you can still bash for experience, talisman pieces and the like past the cap), they're just no longer advantages that crash the whole bloody economy and make us all suffer.

    Huh. Neat.
    Kurdock
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    edited June 2016

    Somewhat related on a comedic note, my wife and I were watching a screen while eating dinner tonight, and Hudson Hawk was on. It’s a terrible, early ‘90s movie starring Bruce Willis as a cat burglar. It’s pretty bad. 

    But this quote made me chuckle because of this discussion about the value of gold. It’s from one of the main villains, who are working on a way to turn iron into gold.

    After a couple years of steady production, we’ll flood the market with so much gold that gold itself – the foundation of all finance – will lose its meaning. Brokers, economists, fellow entrepreneurs will drown in the saliva of their own nervous breakdowns! Markets will crash crash financial empires will crumble crumble.

    You do have to imagine it being said by Sandra Bernhardt though, in a super campy villainess role.

    AetheleNizaris
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