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Comments
I'm just saying for my 2 hours that I can keep an interest in bashing, the script makes it do-able instead of me giving up 30 minutes in. It's not a favorite part of the game to me, but it is the most efficient way to earn gold currently.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
I mean, on one hand, I love doing the quests. On the other, my fifteen minutes of effort is definitely not rewarded as much as thirty seconds of spamming 'kill something'.
And you won't understand the cause of your grief...
...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.
I've never been interested in bashing, it's just always been one of those things you have to do in order to get to a certain level of acceptability where you don't die ridiculously easily. Or in the case of Achaea, to hit Logosian so you don't have to sleep or eat all the time. It's not fun, and maybe it's not supposed to be. I can see both sides.
Someone's advise to me to get dragon was to use a bashing script and have Netflix pulled up at the same time, because it made it less boring. It was like...really? Why be signed in at all then? Why not just watch Netflix?
As great as scripting can be, and as creative as you can get with it, it takes out a lot of probability and risk and chance. Used to be, a fight in a MUD didn't boil down to who had the better triggers or a curing system, but who had the actual knowledge and could quickly transfer that to the game with clarity. A fight could have easily been determined by lack of herb/poison knowledge as it could a typo.
Most people in this game of course want to earn a lot of gold, because it allows them to do more things. The fact that hunting is one of the primary ways of earning gold is a little lopsided to me to begin with. It's the same reason 80% of the shops are just filled with curatives, with the occasional shop filled with actual interesting things that people would buy if they weren't abhorrently priced for "display".
(I think forums aren't a good place to gauge actual affected populace numbers and it may be leading people to unnecessarily worry)
Honestly as it stands now, I think gold generation is only half the issue here. Gold circulation also makes a difference and gold hardly exchanges hands between players except when buying credits off the market and other IG necessities.
The more powerful you become in this game, the less actual necessities you have to spend on. For the most part, the ones who actually get rid gold from the game with any reliability are the ship owners, the miners and to a small degree, the crafters.
Curatives, enchantments and inks are perennial, that's why nearly every shop in the game sells the same handful of items. They need at least curatives and inks to make their rent or their taxes.
Clothing is very much optional as weather effects have little to no bearing on your activity apart from flavour. Some people are so covered in arties, they can simply be naked and nobody will notice.
From the time you hit level 80, you neither need to sleep, nor eat. Of course I'm being shamelessly self-promoting when I say this, but how many people actually buy that bracelet of sustenance given how easy it is is to hit 80 these days?
Commodities are such an expensive, scarcely used niche. A lot of us are still sitting on comms have basically next to no value because they have such limited use.
So what are these higher end players actually spending their gold on apart from credits?
Another thing I would be curious to know is what would happen if we eliminated the ability to trade exclusively in credits. Everyone favours exchange by credits because 1: you can make negotiations at a distance and complete the payment transaction on the spot. 2: credit transactions are viewed as more safe since administration *appears* to police them more stringently when it comes to scams.
So what would happen if all player-player exchange was forced to be in gold? Instead of making the payment at 10 credits, you'd be forced either have that much gold on hand, or sell credits on the open market. I suspect it would push more credits onto the market, driving at least some the price down even during non-credit promos like globes etc.
It feels like you're still in the old mindset of 'triggers are bad'. I 100% understand the need to prevent auto gold generation. And while I understand the distaste for triggers/scripts/automation, I think you need to come to terms that this is what MUDs are now. If you permashrubbed every player who technically breaks the automation rules (for those wondering: a simple DOR or balance trigger to attack a target, or having a trigger to harvest a plant you see in a room, or having a do repeat to make primes or whatever, are all illegal as per help automation) you wouldn't have a playerbase left. Sure, shrub the people who can type 'bash moghedu', go afk, and come back to 15k gold and 5% experience. But the veiled threats you post from time to time about automation and shrubbing don't make anyone feel good. Decide whether you're actually going to punish people that technically break the automation rules, or decide to let it go. Don't come here and piss off the players who make your business successful.
There's so much assumed activity by the unseen npc populace behind the scenes that these actions never happen. Achaea is slowly adopting models for these things that other, less popular MUDS use, and making them work in Achaea fashion. Mining and being able to build rooms using commodities and gold for example.
Outside of gold and credits though, it doesn't seem as if the economy is very player driven at all. You can't send someone out to fell and log a tree and either sell the wood to a nearby village or deposit it into the city comm shop or even build anything with it, because -technically- there are no trees that can be done with. There are plenty of forest rooms and some trees that can be interacted with, but you can't do things like shake a tree and see if any fruit falls out, or plant a garden for the ingredients to use in cooking, or take wood commodity and turn it into basic tools and furniture.
What's not okay is using those investments to generate hundreds of thousands of gold every day while effectively afk, where a majority of the playerbase is stuck piddling around at a few thousand an hour, without so much time to devote to being mindless while your script runs.
People with artefacts, or people who spend hours optimizing, etc, all still have advantages over those of us who don't (not to mention you can still bash for experience, talisman pieces and the like past the cap), they're just no longer advantages that crash the whole bloody economy and make us all suffer.
I'm not quite following here. Of the 16 things that are labeled comms, 11 of them are produced entirely by players. Herbs and minerals are also comms, just by a different name, and they're produced by players. That's like 50 additional things right there.
> you can't do things like shake a tree and see if any fruit falls out
There's literally an entire tradeskill devoted to this kind of thing though. You can gather fruit, grain, vegetables, eggs, milk, nuts, olives, sugarcane, lumic, cacao, etc. You can kill things and butcher them for meat. Those things are then used in other player skills, the product of which is sold to other players.
As far as the Gathering tradeskill, it's great that it allows players to collect those materials just...kinda out of nowhere, as a result of being in the appropriate room, but I was speaking towards a more hands-on approach. Nuts and fruits coming from actual trees (which would require either private orchards or an understanding that cutting down all the trees and not allowing them to mature creates shortages) would be great. Killing creatures and butchering them for generic meat is just as lackluster. What about actually raising cattle and either using them to get milk or butchering them for beef, and bone, and hide? What about setting up a chicken coop and getting some chickens to either harvest the eggs, or butcher them for chicken meat, and feathers?
Those are the type of interactions I'm talking about, which would make it more interesting in accruing these commodities, It gives people something to actually do besides pressing one button in a room or using one syntax to butcher and get all these things.
Then the ability to use those basic materials and make things out of them. Wood into tools, furniture, etc which can then be priced out and sold by the players, not some denizen run shop.
The situation you described as 'exactly similar' regarding PvP is not even close to similar. PvP does not generate gold like bashing does. You can spend $3,000 on PvP but it doesn't get you anything except more fun from killing people. Spending 1600 credits on a lash, 800 credits on an SoA, 1000 credits on a sip ring, 350 credits on a regen ring, 1400 credits on a bracelet, 200 credits on a pendant, 800 credits on eagle wings, and 1250 credits on a +2 dex artefact, spending hundreds of hours bashing levels so my crits go up, all just so I can get 20k more gold per hour bashing than someone who invested $0 is kind of laughable.
I personally don't care about a gold generation cap on bashing because I don't bash enough to hit it. I care about the direction Achaea has gone regarding reducing the benefits of artefacts while bashing by a very significant amount. Battlerage was shown off as making bashing more "interesting" and fun and whatever else was said, but it was really a very large nerf to the benefit of artefacts while bashing. That's what I care about.
Somewhat related on a comedic note, my wife and I were watching a screen while eating dinner tonight, and Hudson Hawk was on. It’s a terrible, early ‘90s movie starring Bruce Willis as a cat burglar. It’s pretty bad.
But this quote made me chuckle because of this discussion about the value of gold. It’s from one of the main villains, who are working on a way to turn iron into gold.
“After a couple years of steady production, we’ll flood the market with so much gold that gold itself – the foundation of all finance – will lose its meaning. Brokers, economists, fellow entrepreneurs will drown in the saliva of their own nervous breakdowns! Markets will crash crash financial empires will crumble crumble.”
You do have to imagine it being said by Sandra Bernhardt though, in a super campy villainess role.