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New Class

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  • AtalkezAtalkez
    edited November 2016
    @Makarios

    Any reason why the capstone for degenerate doesn't have a line?

    Madness: ^The head of (.+) snaps back as if struck and (his|her) eyes roll madly\.$
    Depression: ^A look of total despair crosses the face of (.+)\.$
    Leach: ^You claim the shadow of (.+)\, storing it within your phylactery\.$
    Retribution: ^The white flame leaps from the scythe to (.+)\, blazing with a terrible intensity before guttering out\.$

    Only Degenerate doesn't have the regular line OR a capstone line. Makes it harder to recognize when that particular route is full. 

    Can we get one added?





    Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
  • AtalkezAtalkez
    https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/NRZ9dF2F

    Also, please for the love of everything that is holy fix this.




    Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
  • JesparJespar
    When you wait 2 months without a class for the new one to come out hoping its INT based and then it's strength :(
  • AegothAegoth
    Jespar said:
    When you wait 2 months without a class for the new one to come out hoping its INT based and then it's strength :(
    It's not entirely STR based. Shadowmancy attacks scale off strength. Aeonics scales off dexterity by increasing your age cap, and increasing age-redux speed. Terminus abilities are boosted by intelligence (though i don't know which ones. @Makarios, possible to get a teensy list?) 

    So really, Shadowmancy caters to everyone, depending on what you want to focus on. Bloodthirsty killer? Go str. Cunning utility ability user? Go dex. Want to wreck a battlefield? Go int.
  • SenoskeSenoske
    edited November 2016
    @Makarios So rewind is awesome. However, for bashing and really much of anything else it isn't viable with the current EQ cost. 3s is a -really- hefty cost for 1k hp boosted/500hp unboosted, most denizens can do over that damage in that amount of time. Suggestion to lower it down or bump the healing up a little bit, maybe increase the mana usage due to the added strength of the skill.
  • RyzethRyzeth
    Aegoth said:
    Jespar said:
    When you wait 2 months without a class for the new one to come out hoping its INT based and then it's strength :(
    It's not entirely STR based. Shadowmancy attacks scale off strength. Aeonics scales off dexterity by increasing your age cap, and increasing age-redux speed. Terminus abilities are boosted by intelligence (though i don't know which ones. @Makarios, possible to get a teensy list?) 

    So really, Shadowmancy caters to everyone, depending on what you want to focus on. Bloodthirsty killer? Go str. Cunning utility ability user? Go dex. Want to wreck a battlefield? Go int.
    Bahar is affected by int.. Don't think anything else is. The thing that makes you aoe everyone in room MIGHT be.

    @Senoske unwind isn't supposed to be used in the same manner that transmute is for Monks, once or twice to be safe that you can run when needed, not in between every other mob attack. Depthswalker is already tanky enough IMO when bashing.
  • SenoskeSenoske
    edited November 2016
    Ryzeth said:
    Aegoth said:
    Jespar said:
    When you wait 2 months without a class for the new one to come out hoping its INT based and then it's strength :(
    It's not entirely STR based. Shadowmancy attacks scale off strength. Aeonics scales off dexterity by increasing your age cap, and increasing age-redux speed. Terminus abilities are boosted by intelligence (though i don't know which ones. @Makarios, possible to get a teensy list?) 

    So really, Shadowmancy caters to everyone, depending on what you want to focus on. Bloodthirsty killer? Go str. Cunning utility ability user? Go dex. Want to wreck a battlefield? Go int.
    Bahar is affected by int.. Don't think anything else is. The thing that makes you aoe everyone in room MIGHT be.

    @Senoske unwind isn't supposed to be used in the same manner that transmute is for Monks, once or twice to be safe that you can run when needed, not in between every other mob attack. Depthswalker is already tanky enough IMO when bashing.
    @Ryzeth while I agree with tankiness, I know that rewind isn't supposed to be used like monk transmute. But if you're going to rewind you may as well just run. Rewind knocks you off of eq for 3 seconds for 1k hp. That's like 1.5 denizen hits in which if you're low enough is going to either kill you or you may as well should have just ran. Point is, it's completely useless in its current incarnation as you can't use it off balance and it doesn't heal for enough to bother using.
  • RyzethRyzeth
    Senoske said:
    Point is, it's completely useless in its current incarnation as you can't use it off balance and it doesn't heal for enough to bother using.
    I disagree. Maybe for bashing it might have less use, but it definitely has usages in combat. It's clear it wasn't intended to be something to be used a ton for bashing.
  • FarrahFarrah
    I think Rewind is fairly standard as far as health healing abilities go. It's useful.

    In terms of bashing specifically, if you're going to use those, you might as well leave the room first (so you aren't taking more damage while healing).


  • SenoskeSenoske
    edited November 2016
    Ryzeth said:
    Senoske said:
    Point is, it's completely useless in its current incarnation as you can't use it off balance and it doesn't heal for enough to bother using.
    I disagree. Maybe for bashing it might have less use, but it definitely has usages in combat. It's clear it wasn't intended to be something to be used a ton for bashing.
    Definitely not gonna be using it in combat then. The only use for it right now is to minimize downtime from running and sipping (As @Farrah pointed out). Player combat would take that in one hit and leave you with less than restored (Most player skills do more than what it heals unless you have a large health pool).
  • RyzethRyzeth
    ^ This. Pretty much. No, it alone is not going to save you. Combined with other methods of healing health, it'll be a massive boon. I miss vigour, but at least I have rewind now :>
  • SenoskeSenoske
    edited November 2016
    Alrena said:
    Senoske said:
    Ryzeth said:
    Senoske said:
    Point is, it's completely useless in its current incarnation as you can't use it off balance and it doesn't heal for enough to bother using.
    I disagree. Maybe for bashing it might have less use, but it definitely has usages in combat. It's clear it wasn't intended to be something to be used a ton for bashing.
    Definitely not gonna be using it in combat then. The only use for it right now is to minimize downtime from running and sipping (As Farrah pointed out). Player combat would take that in one hit and leave you with less than restored (Most player skills do more than what it heals unless you have a large health pool).
    That statement is only true if you do not sip health or eat moss. Anyone who has lay hands, transmute, necro vigour will tell you they're absolutely useful in player combat and allows you to survive things you otherwise wouldn't, especially against classes with a damage burst.
    Transmute is completely different and can't really be comparable since it doesn't take any balance. The rest, yeah, I can agree with that since hands is pretty much same balance time. Dunno how much hands heals for though so on that basis I guess I concede to that point. Somewhat useful when boosted in terms of just trying to stay alive against burst.
  • FarrahFarrah
    Pretty sure boosted rewind is 20%, which is the same as necromancy vigour. Hands has a slight edge at 25%, which makes sense given that it's a factional advantage (priest is supposed to be "best" at defense).

    Not sure about Tarot Priestess.
  • AtalkezAtalkez
    Priestess is Hands, iirc, at 25%

    Rewind let me tank a torso dsb/follow up damage several times. Has let me survive damage in groups once or twice as well.

    If there is a complaint, maybe it's inability to be used prone, but that would be it.

    Walk/heal shouldn't be an issue for hunting.




    Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
  • SenaSena
    Ryzeth said:
    Aegoth said:
    Jespar said:
    When you wait 2 months without a class for the new one to come out hoping its INT based and then it's strength :(
    Terminus abilities are boosted by intelligence (though i don't know which ones. @Makarios, possible to get a teensy list?) 
    Bahar is affected by int.. Don't think anything else is. The thing that makes you aoe everyone in room MIGHT be.
    Makarios said that Tooros (room damage) is not affected by int or collar, Bahar (ranged lightning) and Tuad (shatter ice/stonewalls for room damage on both ends) both benefit from int and collar.
  • AsmodronAsmodron
    edited November 2016
    To understand why Hashan sees itself as the victim can be done by simply looking into the history of class distribution.


    Before the strict regulations, Hashan was seen as meeting point of several class types and the unique use of them. It was allowed Necromancers, Occultists and Forestrals. Hashan had prided itself on the idea of utilizing the skills you have for greater causes beyond the mundane sects, a very Darkness concept. With the strict regulations later reinstigated for classes, Hashan found itself at a disadvantage. Not only did Hashan not have its own prized class which represented and championed their ideals, but it also lost access to a big percentage of players interested in the other arts.


    Let us look at how the division currently stands:

    Ashtan: All Neutral classes + Occultist + Alchemist
    Mhaldor: All Neutral classes + Apostate + Infernal + Alchemist
    Eleusis: All Neutral classes + Druid + Sylvan + Sentinel
    Targossas: All Neutral classes + Priest + Paladin + Alchemist
    Cyrene: All Neutral classes + Alchemist + Occultist (removed as a selection by choice by citizens)
    Hashan: All Neutral classes + Occultist (For the time being) + Alchemist


    I'm honestly tempted to not even include Occultist for Hashan (or even as a choice for Cyrene), as it has restrictions based on Ashtan's influence and may as well be fully factionalized.

    Now looking at this, one may think that both Hashan and Cyrene are the victims, but this is when we take a look away from the restrictions and towards warfare. Cyrene does not concern itself as a major power in the battle of pushing a religious Ideal. Hashan is, and has been trying to manifest this for quite some time.


    Why is it an issue that Hashan does not get a factional class? Simply because in the scheme of things, Hashan does not have a class championing its cause, nor one to rely on for an advantage. When an Apostate or Priest is raiding or warring against Hashan, the opposing faction clearly has an advantage by access to the restricted skills in that class, of which Hashan cannot counter with "We have <this> class with <these> tricks". It is basically gunless in the showdown of ideal supremacy.


    Now would Shadowmancy have filled this void? Definitely, and I can say without a doubt that if this was still Achaea from a few years ago, it would have easily become Hashan's faction class, but now it is about Business and faction classes are bad for business; and Hashan pays the price for that.


    So Hashan went from access to most classes, to access of least in comparison to the warring states, and will always be at a disadvantage in this regard. RP wont fill this void, as some seem to randomly believe, this is a mechanics and availability issue. This is why I was simply suggesting the addition of a skill or flavor aspect to the class for Hashani, as that would at least somewhat alleviate the problem.


    So now you see why Hashan would feel so glum about not having its own unique class, and why it seemed rather insulting to have a class based on Shadow-magic and NOT be factioned to them, after all this wait.
  • CalynCalyn
    Holy shit @Asmodron, take it to rants. Let people gush over this new class here.
  • KorbenKorben
    I see the advantage of a factional class (FC from here on in) in other terms: it helps cement identity and commitment. When you're a FC, your class intermingles with your ideals and your faction, they all mesh in a way that says "This is who I am, this is what I stand for." In addition, you can't quit your faction and keep your class (with exceptions), so when hard times come around people are more likely to tough it out. If you're a generic class in a factionally bland city, however, you're far more likely to go join some other place where life won't be as difficult. I said in a previous post that something else might meet this need instead of a FC but I've changed my mind: a FC would still be the best solution.
    It takes a hell of a lot of time and work to develop a class, which if it is factional then only a small fraction of the playerbase can enjoy.
    Short answer: remember Bards ? You had to join a Cyrenian guild to be one. Everyone who wanted it quit their guild or made an alt to go play with the new toy.

    Long answer: In the short term, yes. But if one faction out of five has a disadvantage (and unlike Asmodron, I don't think it's a mechanics / abilities / PvP disadvantage, it's an identity / dedication disadvantage) over time that faction will wither and then we'll need a Renaissance-level event to try to fix that. And unless that event ushers in a FC, it's likely to treat the symptoms instead of the cause. To conclude, there are shortcuts to reduce the investment, a new class can be a mashup or remake of two or three existing ones. Depthswalker + Shaman + some changes to Curses and tada, Shadowmaster.
  • TydasTydas
    What we could do, that would probably satisfy those Hashani that want it to be factional (myself included), is make Hashani a pseudo-factional class. Every city is absolutely free to use Depthswalker... so long as they don't use it against Hashan. If they do, the shadows will no longer bend to their will. Dagger, scythe, and cloak no longer work or provide any benefit. This would be a little like Occie, in that technically Hashan can use it, excepting of course for the rabid threats and harassment Hashani Occies have to take from certain Ashtani.
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna be
    Tydas said:
    What we could do, that would probably satisfy those Hashani that want it to be factional (myself included), is make Hashani a pseudo-factional class. Every city is absolutely free to use Depthswalker... so long as they don't use it against Hashan. If they do, the shadows will no longer bend to their will. Dagger, scythe, and cloak no longer work or provide any benefit. This would be a little like Occie, in that technically Hashan can use it, excepting of course for the rabid threats and harassment Hashani Occies have to take from certain Ashtani.
    Except anyone who uses Occultism against Ashtan gets rekt by the Chaos court.
    Huh. Neat.
  • AsmodronAsmodron
    Ryzeth said:

    Asmodron said:
    Definitely, and I can say without a doubt that if this was still Achaea from a few years ago, it would have easily become Hashan's faction class
    No, and no. Something being related to Shadows does not automatically qualify it for being a Darkness Pantheon thing. Shadowmancy/Aeonics/Terminus were created and developed by the Tsol'teth. Not anyone that has anything to do, even remotely, with Hashan. Even back then it wouldn't have been.


    Incorrect. This is merely the excuse being utilized currently for all factions (such as Targossas) to feel comfortable with utilizing the class.


    The Tsol'teth studied many magics and arts that were already -universally- accessible, we simply did not have the knowledge. They did not -create- Aeonics, Shadow magic and Terminus. These -already existed-. They simply knew how to call upon them.

    Do you think their arts are limited to these 3? Hell no. They have  a lot of magical knowledge and study under their belt, as was seen by the tremendous abilities they could call on. We barely scratched the surface.


    To say Shadowmancy isnt attributed to Darkness is equivalent to say Elementalism wasnt connected to Agathesis or Harmonics isnt related to Scarlatti. There is no division in realm, it all comes from the same source. Whether you, or any other that currently is attempting to utilize an excuse to feel better, likes it or not; Shadow is Shadow, it is from the Darkness realm. The Tsol'teth easily mastered and took an affinity to this because they lived in darkness: The Underrealm. It is thus logical for them to simply manipulate what is around them for their own needs; The darkness.


    I've been hearing people spouting around "It isnt Darkness, it is Tsol'teth magic that is just shadows", which makes me honestly facepalm. How is this being used as the common excuse for people in a city devoted to light and life? It baffles me. There are even messages in Shadowmancy of "banishing the light from the land" and when the darkness fades "Returning light to the land" and people still think it is a universal neutral option. Frankly not going to get stuck on it if Targ wished to keep it, but it will be funny seeing shadow spread around that city of all places.



    And yes, it would have been factionalized, -extremely- easily. Back when the classes were being placed back under restrictions and divided, a Shadow magic affiliation would have easily been put as Hashan's factional class, not only to try and help a Darkness attributed faction thrive, but also for game immersive purposes.


    I'm honestly hoping after all the excitement for a new class fades, people will start to get their RP caps back on and see the logic of it....
  • AsmodronAsmodron
    What is mostly upsetting is the siding and hypocrisy taking place. People are judging Hashani players for wanting a factional class when their own orgs already had one. Do you think Targossas would have just magically been okay if Priest was able to be used by whomever, even against them? No, there would likely be an entire thread filled with vitriol about it. I remember when occultist was used against Ashtan and the amount of issues that created, and now look where we are.


    Is it so wrong for Hashan to want its own special snowflake class as well? Why are they being judged for wanting what everyone else has?
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