Titanic CTF

Atalkez

I'm not saying the decision was a good one, but I could see a scenario where the RP works.

"We're not going to win. Eleusis and Mhaldor are close. I really don't want Evil to win, I'd rather see Nature win. Lets help them"

That's not accounting for the obvious feelings of Eleusis towards Targossas, as you and I both have heard from people in TMC, Targossas doesn't feel Eleusis is an enemy. I disagree with this thought process, but I can see how that could be approached and decided upon IG.

Also it was a single person that did it, so again, it could have been an IC decision. Whether or not it was, we'll never really know.

Kasya

Kiet said:

Kasya said:

Kiet said:

Aquil said:

No one is saying that. Can we all just drop it? This is becoming a rant thread, seriously, take it somewhere else guys. 

The people yelling about 'tantrums' aren't saying that, really?

Yeah. I yelled that ICly... but if you think I think that OOCly I suggest you reread my post.

Re-read the posts on this page, I'm pretty sure the forums aren't IC, so those posts up there are OOCly calling it a tantrum!

Oh. Sorry! Long day! I should just log of the forums now.

Jarrod

Atalkez said:

Also it was a single person that did it, so again, it could have been an IC decision. Whether or not it was, we'll never really know.

There was a group of Targossians actively defending the Eleusis flag in Shastaan until Hashan eventually killed them and uprooted.

Quisse

Ainly said:
If that's the way they choose to play it.  But, and I say this OOC, Targossas has a very slimy feel to it. It doesn't feel like the city of Good.  It's...I don't know.  Pretending to be Good? I mean one thing that pervades all good factions in general is that they're honest, upright, and principled.  Targossas is more...the ends justify the means.

Slimy Good. I dig it. :awesome: 

Atalkez

Jarrod said:

Atalkez said:

Also it was a single person that did it, so again, it could have been an IC decision. Whether or not it was, we'll never really know.

There was a group of Targossians actively defending the Eleusis flag in Shastaan until Hashan eventually killed them and uprooted.

Ah, I thought the biggest issue was the flag being handed over. I can see how they go hand in hand, and defending the flag they just handed making it even harder. I got ya.

Ainly

Florentino said:

Ainly said:

Atalkez said:

While I understand why Mhaldor isn't happy about Tesha doing what she did, at the same time from a Targossas perspective Eleusis is by far the lesser of two proverbial Evils in that scenario.

I don't think it's really that bad to make a decision to support an enemy of your enemy, to thwart an enemy from winning, when you're obviously out of contention. It does against RP, but if you look at RP as you would morals IRL, it's not just a static state of being. They're going to alter and adjust based on situations.

With that said, it would be better to have everyone stand on their own, win or lose. That didn't happen, and it sucks, but it's not that big of a stretch either.

If that's the way they choose to play it.  But, and I say this OOC, Targossas has a very slimy feel to it. It doesn't feel like the city of Good.  It's...I don't know.  Pretending to be Good? I mean one thing that pervades all good factions in general is that they're honest, upright, and principled.  Targossas is more...the ends justify the means.

Apart from this whole CTF thing, I think that's part of the point of the city - it's rough and tumble Good. I think one of the Axioms of Righteousness is: If a law prevents you from your task, rewrite it. If a moral gives you pause, expunge it. If a man stands in your way, cut him down.

That's my point though.  It's subjective good.  But who decides?  Shouldn't what's good now always be good no matter what? Seems like an axiom that gives them a free pass to justify any act as long as it helps them reach their goal, but if the acts become corrupt enough, havn't they defeated their initial purpose?  I seriously think of Targossas as physical proof that Evil beat Good. Not by causing events that lead to the destruction of Shallam, but by forcing Good to change what it believed in.

For example, from the Holy Codex, Deucalion writes, "My realm is that of goodness as the codex states, goodness is not a relative term that one defines for him or herself, but it instead an eternal absolute, a holistic truth that is unchanging, regardless of the circumstances."

That is in direct contradiction to what their new axiom says. Thus, what are they now?

Sryn

Who was in that group anyways? 

Tahquil

I think this thread needs some good closing. Mhhhmmm..

Florentino

@Ainly, I don't know the answers but sounds like some good IC discussion/debate opportunity for you and Targossians? Philosophies with shades of grey are probably more fun to talk about...

Aepas

Sad I missed out on this and can not comment more on all the crocodile tears.

Medi

Haha, this was a lot of fun. Thank you to whoever fixed those bugs just in time. And everyone that made this happen. Can we please have all CTFs be Titanic? And thank you for no lag issues!!! I was very worried about that.

As for all of the OOC/IC there are reasons on both sides and people on both sides. Welcome to humanity.

I'm not mad that Eleusis won, they fought pretty well on their own. And yes, killing guards and blowing rooms is a perfect IC response to the city's government that so openly aided their own enemy to hinder Mhaldor. Why? Because it is a consequence. Without them, what will deter you from doing anything about it?

Most people are already saying that ICly they disagreed with that decision, but if you didn't have ^ that happen, you could probably just dismiss it pretty easily.

You might still do that, though, and just blame it all on mean old Mhaldor. Who usually does restrain themselves from all of that. You know, we did only blow three tanks, and we did leave some guards alone.

And yeah, we initially wanted to go raid Eleusis because of all the loud mouths but all of the good pkers were still logged in and we were getting wiped =( We also had more beef with Targ at that point and saw an opportunity.

INB4 You all cry about overkill and then return the favour

Rohai

Probably a better conversation to have IG than the forums, but Good is not the same thing as good. At all.

Kafziel

Just remember, no amount of destroyed rooms and killed guards will get that effigy back. gg no re

just kidding I wasn't there for either ctf or raid

Xinna

Medi said:

Haha, this was a lot of fun. Thank you to whoever fixed those bugs just in time. And everyone that made this happen. Can we please have all CTFs be Titanic? And thank you for no lag issues!!! I was very worried about that.

As for all of the OOC/IC there are reasons on both sides and people on both sides. Welcome to humanity.

I'm not mad that Eleusis won, they fought pretty well on their own. And yes, killing guards and blowing rooms is a perfect IC response to the city's government that so openly aided their own enemy to hinder Mhaldor. Why? Because it is a consequence. Without them, what will deter you from doing anything about it?

Most people are already saying that ICly they disagreed with that decision, but if you didn't have ^ that happen, you could probably just dismiss it pretty easily.

You might still do that, though, and just blame it all on mean old Mhaldor. Who usually does restrain themselves from all of that. You know, we did only blow three tanks, and we did leave some guards alone.

And yeah, we initially wanted to go raid Eleusis because of all the loud mouths but all of the good pkers were still logged in and we were getting wiped =( We also had more beef with Targ at that point and saw an opportunity.

INB4 You all cry about overkill and then return the favour

Well said.

There's no OOC motivation in our raiding, at least there wasn't for me. We just had to ensure there was a consequence for what Mhaldor sees as extremely cowardly and shameful behavior on Targossas's part.

As far as I saw, we stayed classy and in character despite some poor sportsmanship and childish talk from others IG. We didn't take anything away that won't come back in a few days.

And it was clearly provoked! I don't see the problem, but haters gonna hate. For all the blame thrown at Mhaldor for being "griefy," there's a lot more Mhaldor hate going on here than anything else.

Step back a bit. It's a game. Try to be a little courteous, everyone.

Xinna

Also @Tecton and @Makarios for fixing the lag AND the Titan CTF. 

I mean, come on. A CTF with every skill and hardly any lag? It was a blast. My favorite CTF thus far!

Tesha

I'm confused why people are saying Tesha's actions were motivated by OOC hatred of Mhaldor. I realize people will often say things without thinking when they're upset, but that has no basis for that statement whatsoever and while there might be a few people in Mhaldor that hate me OOCly, the feeling isn't mutual. There were many reasons why Tesha wanted Eleusis win instead of Mhaldor from an entirely in-character perspective. Here are just a handful:

1. Mhaldor focused Tesha so hard in the tumbleraces she didn't even place, and ended up losing the staff by a significant margin. It's fair for Tesha to be upset with Mhaldor about that.
2. Mhaldor is the city of Evil. From Tesha's understanding, Mhaldor wants to dominate Creation, and the results of that would be catastrophic.
3. Tesha views Eleusis as a group striving for the betterment of Creation. They're going about it in a wrong way and are hostile towards Targossas, but that doesn't make them a threat to Creation. Certainly less of an enemy than Mhaldor.
4. Mhaldor is an inherent enemy due to their core beliefs, Eleusis is a recent (lesser) enemy due to their recent actions. Artemis has been particularly kind to Tesha, so she hopes Artemis will guide Eleusis more towards the true threats against Creation.


I can go on, but the point isn't to sway anyone about whether Tesha's motivations were accurate or not, whether Eleusis is worse than Mhaldor or not, etc. - these are all reasons based on Tesha's IG perspective. The point is it was an entirely IC act, and to call it an OOC act and suggest I never roleplay etc. is pretty unfair, especially if you haven't interacted with me IG. 


I wish I had enough time to stay for the revenge raid, but I really had to go. I had a lot of fun in the CTF, especially with Tharos swooning over Tesha!

Halos

3 blown rooms in Targ that will fix themselves by Tuesday, a couple of deaths, and two dozen city guards killed.

So....basically that's 600K in cleanup/rehiring costs from underhandedly denying Mhaldor a 10% xp bonus for at least the next six RL months.

Targ, don't you fucking complain about getting guard-rolled. Not only was it deserved, we got a damn good bargain out of that. It could've (should've) been much, much worse.

Atalkez

Daeir said:

Mhaldor wins staff = gets congratulations from Targossian champion, gg's all alround

Mhaldor loses CTF = last 2 pages of this thread

Haha, oh wow.

Not really the same things in the context of this conversation, though!

Alaskar

But can we reminisce about how awesome crystalism and holocaust are with phasing? And Tesha repeatedly killing like 10 people at once?

Edit: also wanted to commend Tesha for, at the very beginning, stressing that everyone just have fun, above all else. Was a blast.

Kiet

Daeir said:

Mhaldor wins staff = gets congratulations from Targossian champion, gg's all around

Mhaldor loses CTF = last 2 pages of this thread

Haha, oh wow.

Almost as if Mhaldor didn't team up with Ashtan or something to ruin Targ's time  

Sarathai

Alaskar said:

But can we reminisce about how awesome crystalism and holocaust are with phasing?

And people with 9k+ health in lesserform plus so much mitigation that we could literally sit there and laugh at the holos while occasionally transmuting health.

Krypton

Alaskar said:

But can we reminisce about how awesome crystalism and holocaust are with phasing?

What did we learn today?

That the Fiery Conflagrations of Hell evidently transcend space and time, lol

Trey

@Daeir complaining about someone else being salty... what a time to be alive.

Aepas

I'm just glad that Mhaldor is still big and bad enough that people will team up on them to see them lose.

Sylvaria

Aepas said:

I'm just glad that Mhaldor is still big and bad enough that people will team up on them to see them lose.

Actually it was because my restaurant ran out of salt and I wanted a free supply for christmas

Tesha

A few logs:

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/bce272c8

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/03e1f4e2

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/9e593fa3

Exelethril

The flag from Tesha and mini Targ defense was just a little push albeit sufficient to push us into the lead, we were trailing relatively close behind throughout.

A portion of Mhaldor's loss was due to overextension and poorly defended hills too. Plus that was pretty much all of Mhaldor's core, minus one or two people. If all the Eleusian fighters that were active over the past year decided to log in for this, the nature of this thread would be quite different.

Blujixapug

ITT confirmed: Targ salty over losing Staff of Nicator, teams Mhaldor for righteous vengeance. Will this finally balance the scales of what necessitates retribution, bringing peace to the lands? As we're just 5 days away from Christmas and someone still has to ruin it: not a chance!

Melodie

Exelethril said:

The flag from Tesha and mini Targ defense was just a little push albeit sufficient to push us into the lead, we were trailing relatively close behind throughout.

A portion of Mhaldor's loss was due to overextension and poorly defended hills too. Plus that was pretty much all of Mhaldor's core, minus one or two people. If all the Eleusian fighters that were active over the past year decided to log in for this, the nature of this thread would be quite different.

We were 1800 points in the lead when Tesha gave over the flag and they started to help. We were doing quite fine (and while we lost some, we always gained back what we lost in short order), and would have likely succeeded without that step-in, unless you suddenly had a good force of people suddenly log in.

And... your last statement is kind of obvious. Yes, you have more people. And? I'm not sure how it relates. Mhaldor's always been small, everyone knows this. If you had won with purely your own people, we would indeed be having a different conversation.

I'm not saying you guys didn't do a good job - you did! - but to say you got a little push is downplaying it a fair amount.

Halos

To anyone suggesting that Tesha/Targossas was motivated by OOC hate/improperly roleplaying/going against its own beliefs: might I humbly suggest that you know fuckall about Targossian religious principles (to be fair—and I've said this before—Targ's more insular-ish attitude and lackluster proselytizing efforts are likely partially to blame for the massive public ignorance).

But the last minute desperately-sacrifice-everything-even-your-scruples-to-prevent-the success-of-the-enemy move just smacks of Targ flavour. 'For the greater good' and all that.

OOCly I can see why anyone would call what Tesha did a dick move. ICly, it fits the Righteous philosophy so well.