Titanic CTF

Aepas

@Ainly here, use these.

Atalkez

Ainly said:

Tesha said:

I feel like very few people actually even read the start of the reasons Tesha supported Eleusis instead. Mhaldor is the biggest threat, but one of the biggest motivators for Tesha was losing the staff like three days ago. In my mind that's a pretty good reason to lash back. I think all these claims of Eleusis/Targ allying are getting very exaggerated and that claim is being beaten to death hard. It was a much more IC personal decision in one situation than a factional decision spanning more than even the quarter of an event, let alone all of one, or beyond the event. At this point though it feels more like venting than anything else, so maybe even explaining this is in vain. 

I think it was an IC decision too, albeit a selfish one.  Tesha didn't consider what Targossas wanted, only what she wanted.  Evidenced by the fact that the Targossian team abandoned her after she gave away the flag.  She sold Targossas out.  Will their be an IC response from the rest of Targossas towards Tesha?  Stay tuned to find out!

She probably already got a CF, and maybe a TF for it haha.

Morthif

Ainly said:

Tesha said:

I feel like very few people actually even read the start of the reasons Tesha supported Eleusis instead. Mhaldor is the biggest threat, but one of the biggest motivators for Tesha was losing the staff like three days ago. In my mind that's a pretty good reason to lash back. I think all these claims of Eleusis/Targ allying are getting very exaggerated and that claim is being beaten to death hard. It was a much more IC personal decision in one situation than a factional decision spanning more than even the quarter of an event, let alone all of one, or beyond the event. At this point though it feels more like venting than anything else, so maybe even explaining this is in vain. 

I think it was an IC decision too, albeit a selfish one.  Tesha didn't consider what Targossas wanted, only what she wanted.  Evidenced by the fact that the Targossian team abandoned her after she gave away the flag.  She sold Targossas out.  Will their be an IC response from the rest of Targossas towards Tesha?  Stay tuned to find out!

She got a HF and in speaking with Deucalion he agreed with Tesha's decision. 

Saeva

The whole point that is being made over and over is that Mhaldor is the "greater" threat. That's admitting right there that Eleusis is a threat at all. To help someone that is so blatantly and painfully not your ally was lame, IC. But like I said, mostly it was just a shitty thing to do OOCly. 

Sylvaria

Saeva said:

The whole point that is being made over and over is that Mhaldor is the "greater" threat. That's admitting right there that Eleusis is a threat at all. To help someone that is so blatantly and painfully not your ally was lame, IC. But like I said, mostly it was just a shitty thing to do OOCly. 

Mhaldor and targossas are diametrically opposed, why shouldn't Targ do whatever to stop them? IC tesha's motivations were clear and executed well. OOC welcome to the nature of a free-for-all, happens in games like it all the time, I've been backstabbed in games like coup and monopoly hundreds of times, you laugh, dust it off and try again. 

Aodfionn

Because Eleusis is trying to establish itself as a functional plate in greater axes of conflict that purely Evil vs Nature. Targ has a fairly significant role, from their perspective, of what they are trying to fight. 

IC, I am all on board the party line that Eleusis isnt our problem (after previous attempts to play along with them were shot down).

OOCly, it is frustrating to see team good and team green working as a team for anything, especially when we have already seen what happens when the factions form nonsensical blocs such as "Team Blue" and "Team Red"

Sylvaria

Aodfionn said:

Because Eleusis is trying to establish itself as a functional plate in greater axes of conflict that purely Evil vs Nature. Targ has a fairly significant role, from their perspective, of what they are trying to fight. 

IC, I am all on board the party line that Eleusis isnt our problem (after previous attempts to play along with them were shot down).

OOCly, it is frustrating to see team good and team green working as a team for anything, especially when we have already seen what happens when the factions form nonsensical blocs such as "Team Blue" and "Team Red"

I doubt this will eventuate, you give little credit to people like rangor who won't see this happen, one CTF does not a full blown alliance make. I'll eat my words if it does, but I do not see that happening. I'll join mhaldor if it does!

Kiet

If Team Blue is unlikely to happen, it's entirely because Cyrene and Eleusis leadership is steadfast. It's pretty clear that Targossas could be easily convinced of it. That's why people roll their eyes.

Sylvaria

Kiet said:

If Team Blue is unlikely to happen, it's entirely because Cyrene and Eleusis leadership is steadfast. It's pretty clear that Targossas could be easily convinced of it. That's why people roll their eyes.

Brave assumption

Shirszae

Kiet said:

If Team Blue is unlikely to happen, it's entirely because Cyrene and Eleusis leadership is steadfast. It's pretty clear that Targossas could be easily convinced of it. That's why people roll their eyes.

This really shows that you really don't know what you are talking about, or have interacted much at all with people from Targossas.

Kiet

Shirszae said:

Kiet said:

If Team Blue is unlikely to happen, it's entirely because Cyrene and Eleusis leadership is steadfast. It's pretty clear that Targossas could be easily convinced of it. That's why people roll their eyes.

This really shows that you really don't know what you are talking about, or have interacted much at all with people from Targossas.

Yeah, it's not like you and Elowin (rest in leaf), for instance, walked in on an Eleusis raid on Targ and refused to do anything for either side while the rest of the city refused to defend against a small, manageable group. This is the common Targ reaction, and the non-leadership of Eleusis contributes to it. If Alrena or Rangor were more soft-willed, Eleusis would be even closer to Targ already.

I've talked to a lot of Targossans IC and OOC, and you'd be hard-pressed to convince me Targ wouldn't take a Team Blue alliance as long as you didn't officially call it an alliance, or pretended it was just temporary (like the ctf as a small example). Cyrene was the one that eventually acted overtly and severed ties with Targ (I know Targ was kind of trying to push them, but why does Cyrene have to be the overt one?), Eleusis is the one trying (unsuccessfully, sadly) to create distance between the two organizations while Targ ignores it both IC and OOC.

Old Team Blue was rarely a formal, official alliance. It was an unspoken agreement of non-aggression and uniting against 'common enemies'. Targ is trying pretty hard to do both of those right now.

Aodfionn

@kiet  you're talking out of your ass here, dude. 

The last several rl years worth of conflict says you're wrong. 

Kiet

Well, recent events and the citizenry of each city aren't proving me wrong. It's not like this is a belief only I hold, it's a common criticism of Targ. If you disagree, fine, but until I actually see Targ make an effort to be like the other non-Cyrene cities (ie: opposed to all of them to the best of their capability), I remain unconvinced. Obviously, it's not your job to convince me, either. I'm just outlining how I view this and why, and no one's forced to agree.

Kasya

I don't know of anyone in Targossas who wants to form any sort of permanent alliance with Eleusis. But to suggest that Targossas should consider them as much as a threat as Evil, Chaos or Darkness, would be giving Eleusis too much credit, given how little it's attempted to engage Targ in the past few RL months. If they want to be a threat, they should act like it. Instead, our citizens go there unharassed for tea or vials or letters. Eleusis wants to protect nature, that falls into Targ's goal of protecting creation. Eleusis may also want to fight cities who destroy nature to live civilized lives, but Targ mainly thinks of that as stupid, and since Eleusis only attacks Targ's more prominent enemies and not say Cyrene, and very rarely Targ itself, no, it's not the same sort of threat as the other three, and in fact, they're doing Targossas a favor.

Also, the one instance I know where Targ didn't fight back when Eleusis was in the city, Eleusis brought fighters to fight a couple Targ fighters and some novices. That's the one instance I can think of any time in the recent future when Eleusis showed up where I was around, and I don't remember seeing anything in city logs. 

So yes, it makes sense ICly to keep Mhaldor from winning the CTF, by going with the lesser of the evils. Yes, that sucks oocly. No, we're not headed back to the days of Team Red vs Team Blue, but yes it sucks both ICly and OOCly for Mhaldor. 

Antidas

Kiet said:

If Team Blue is unlikely to happen, it's entirely because Cyrene and Eleusis leadership is steadfast. It's pretty clear that Targossas could be easily convinced of it. That's why people roll their eyes.

Clearly you never spent much time talking to me ICly about these things, back when I still played. Ask any Targossian about my attitude towards anyone not Targossian. Granted, as I said, I don't really play at the moment, but I have a hard time believing anything has changed -that- much since I left.

Aepas

Sylvaria said:

Kiet said:

If Team Blue is unlikely to happen, it's entirely because Cyrene and Eleusis leadership is steadfast. It's pretty clear that Targossas could be easily convinced of it. That's why people roll their eyes.

Brave assumption

I don't know any Dawnlords that have been around for more than a few days before going dormant. I wouldn't call that steadfast. Badum-tsh.

I think I've gotten to the root of this problem.
People are mad OOCly because it's like trying to play monopoly with your friends. It all starts out fun. That is, until player A gets butthurt about something so they turn over all their property to person B just so they can see person C lose, even though by that point the game has mostly devolved into nothing. That's never fun and you're a wanker and that's why monopoly breaks friendships.

ICly some people are upset that Tesha has shown her damaged hubris and taken on the mantle of vengeance, casting away her righteous glory and using her assumed power as one of the leaders into Targossas to start suicide missions. Not to reclaim anything that was lost, but because it felt good to know that when you are losing, you can make someone else lose as well.  Now that people have seen half of Tesha's force left and QQ'd upon hearing this, people are concerned about her mental state in the blind fury she went to, not even fully explaining the tactics to most her followers but allowing flags to be taken while trying to lead offensives against Mhaldor.
Despite all the crazyness, Tesha's hold in power did not wane in Targossas and she was instead given a highfavor for following the Path of Vengeance, led by Greed, Pride, and Wrath. Her following of the traditions of the Keresians and Indranians goes mostly unnoticed, because everyone in Targossas stood around and patted eachother on the back and gave out cityfavors, cookies, sparkles, and each person got favors from their respective gods. This is what happens in Targossas after an event, or tying your shoes properly.
Quickly realizing her mistake, Tesha locked herself away for five days and re-wrote what she did because that's okay too. And then re-wrote some justifications for some other things that she did and also decided that purple should be a more involved color in Targs because she likes it. This was also allowed by the strange re-do law that Targs has. She has tried her best to cover this up, but there is one person who saw through this farce. A stray puppy in El'Jazira saw through the whole thing and said he was deeply deeply ashamed in all the actions taking place.

Soon after all of this, Mhaldor got mad which is the equivalent of giving pac man a blue pill, especially since a good group of them are asian or sleep deprived which means they're going to be on at a much stranger hour than you. They basically went all over Targossas gobbling up guards like they were ghosts and this was widely regarded as a dick move and some other people didn't like that either.

After this, OOC came back to reality and social justice warriors jumped onto the forums. And then I wrote this out because I was bored and on a 12 hour shift at work.
This should clarify some things for some people.

Saeva

Well, @Rangor, time to step up and give them hell!

Shirszae

^ @Aepas I don't know about that, but I admit I laughed.

Szanthax

Aepas said:

Sylvaria said:

Kiet said:

If Team Blue is unlikely to happen, it's entirely because Cyrene and Eleusis leadership is steadfast. It's pretty clear that Targossas could be easily convinced of it. That's why people roll their eyes.

Brave assumption

I don't know any Dawnlords that have been around for more than a few days before going dormant. I wouldn't call that steadfast. Badum-tsh.

I think I've gotten to the root of this problem.
People are mad OOCly because it's like trying to play monopoly with your friends. It all starts out fun. That is, until player A gets butthurt about something so they turn over all their property to person B just so they can see person C lose, even though by that point the game has mostly devolved into nothing. That's never fun and you're a wanker and that's why monopoly breaks friendships.

ICly some people are upset that Tesha has shown her damaged hubris and taken on the mantle of vengeance, casting away her righteous glory and using her assumed power as one of the leaders into Targossas to start suicide missions. Not to reclaim anything that was lost, but because it felt good to know that when you are losing, you can make someone else lose as well.  Now that people have seen half of Tesha's force left and QQ'd upon hearing this, people are concerned about her mental state in the blind fury she went to, not even fully explaining the tactics to most her followers but allowing flags to be taken while trying to lead offensives against Mhaldor.
Despite all the crazyness, Tesha's hold in power did not wane in Targossas and she was instead given a highfavor for following the Path of Vengeance, led by Greed, Pride, and Wrath. Her following of the traditions of the Keresians and Indranians goes mostly unnoticed, because everyone in Targossas stood around and patted eachother on the back and gave out cityfavors, cookies, sparkles, and each person got favors from their respective gods. This is what happens in Targossas after an event, or tying your shoes properly.
Quickly realizing her mistake, Tesha locked herself away for five days and re-wrote what she did because that's okay too. And then re-wrote some justifications for some other things that she did and also decided that purple should be a more involved color in Targs because she likes it. This was also allowed by the strange re-do law that Targs has. She has tried her best to cover this up, but there is one person who saw through this farce. A stray puppy in El'Jazira saw through the whole thing and said he was deeply deeply ashamed in all the actions taking place.

Soon after all of this, Mhaldor got mad which is the equivalent of giving pac man a blue pill, especially since a good group of them are asian or sleep deprived which means they're going to be on at a much stranger hour than you. They basically went all over Targossas gobbling up guards like they were ghosts and this was widely regarded as a dick move and some other people didn't like that either.

After this, OOC came back to reality and social justice warriors jumped onto the forums. And then I wrote this out because I was bored and on a 12 hour shift at work.
This should clarify some things for some people.

Haha...Awesome. loved this.  


It's like life

Aodfionn

This thread - and the uninformed responses of people in Targ and people in Mhaldor - is super depressing to read. 

Sylvaria

@aepas not chain quoting, but I did laugh. That was me growing up playing monopoly with family. But we always seemed to play it again a week later. Guess those situations were just hilarious because person C was always someone different

Szanthax

Sylvaria said:

@aepas not chain quoting, but I did laugh. That was me growing up playing monopoly with family. But we always seemed to play it again a week later. Guess those situations were just hilarious because person C was always someone different

I bet it's worse when you only play on Xmas

Taraus

Aepas said:

Soon after all of this, Mhaldor got mad which is the equivalent of giving pac man a blue pill, especially since a good group of them are asian or sleep deprived which means they're going to be on at a much stranger hour than you.

still lol'ing

Jarrod

It's weird that Targ/Shirszae specifically are talking about how there's no evidence to support Targ being so willing to work with Eleusis/Eleusians. Given that Targ specifically had Shirszae in their defense numerous timesfor sanctioned raids, the only people talking out of their ass are the ones acting like it hasn't happened.

Tecton

Ok, I think the vitriol levels of this thread have reached the top of the jar. Time to put a lid on it!

Szanthax

Taraus said:

Aepas said:

Soon after all of this, Mhaldor got mad which is the equivalent of giving pac man a blue pill, especially since a good group of them are asian or sleep deprived which means they're going to be on at a much stranger hour than you.

still lol'ing

I didn't bother to read this tl dr part