Agree to disagree, I guess, because I think a class with "Exterminate
Destroy all plant life in a location." is way less nature-friendly than anything a priest has, if we're removing, as I said, Good as a source of devotion and replace it with nature. Not sure how you could replace "kill all plant life" as easily.
Were there any forestals to be grandfathered into Targossas when Alchemist came out -- and how were Targossian forestals perceived? I seem to recall there were some.
And the Dawnspear is only excommunicating priests/paladins that belong to a city that is not Targossas, not the cityless. I don't see such a big deal with a cityless Devotion user picking up forestal skills, if that doesn't bring about loyalties to Eleusis or something.
Fairly sure that since Targossas was created after the forestal/alchemist split, they rejected forestals from the start, so no grandfathering and ex-Shallamese forestals had to change class if they wanted to join Targossas. The problem with the part of your statement that I bolded is that in the current environment, factional skills always come on the condition of some degree of loyalty to the powers that provide them. The enforcement on that seems to be strongest with Devotion and Necromancy, but its definitely there with the forestal skills, and to some extent with Occultism/Domination, as well. Since those are all abilities granted by particular deities (or other entities) on condition of some degree of loyalty, it seems unlikely that any of those deities would be happy about attempts to blend them.
Agree to disagree, I guess, because I think a class with "Exterminate
Destroy all plant life in a location." is way less nature-friendly than anything a priest has, if we're removing, as I said, Good as a source of devotion and replace it with nature. Not sure how you could replace "kill all plant life" as easily.
Until recent changes that made it so holocaust globes didn't destroy all plant life, Sylvan had that too. (And now they have a whole new skill) It was one of those skills that was expressly forbidden from use and there were even people who got up to that level.
I personally find the idea of someone using forestal skills with a darker pitch interesting, like when in Airbender Katara learned how to take water from plants to be able to fight with her water skills. I could see there being an extremist faction who want to propagate nature by any means necessary. And that could mean destroying certain locations to get more power, for a time, to be able to force it on a city. The ends justifying the means.
I think, in a totally OOC way, it'd be fun to play with.
Lucine would never do it though, she's way too nice. She cries when she kills cute animals.
EDIT:
Also, I think there were some grandfathered in Targossas, but I could be wrong.
I don't see such a big deal with a cityless Devotion user picking up forestal skills, if that doesn't bring about loyalties to Eleusis or something.
The problem with the part of your statement that I bolded is that in the current environment, factional skills always come on the condition of some degree of loyalty to the powers that provide them. The enforcement on that seems to be strongest with Devotion and Necromancy, but its definitely there with the forestal skills, and to some extent with Occultism/Domination, as well. Since those are all abilities granted by particular deities (or other entities) on condition of some degree of loyalty, it seems unlikely that any of those deities would be happy about attempts to blend them.
The grandfathered city forestals are almost completely unaffected in their ability to use their skills. And our loyalties to Nature vs. our home cities isn't being tested... yet. There isn't a strong condition of loyalty to Nature/Eleusis currently required in order to use our skills.
Fairly sure that since Targossas was created after the forestal/alchemist split, they rejected forestals from the start, so no grandfathering and ex-Shallamese forestals had to change class if they wanted to join Targossas.
I remember now. Lachlan and Kaiu were forestals "pseudo-grandfathered" into Targossas in spite of Targossas choosing alchemist because of their unquestioned loyalty and service to Shallam/Refugees/Targossas.
Were there any forestals to be grandfathered into Targossas when Alchemist came out -- and how were Targossian forestals perceived? I seem to recall there were some.
And the Dawnspear is only excommunicating priests/paladins that belong to a city that is not Targossas, not the cityless. I don't see such a big deal with a cityless Devotion user picking up forestal skills, if that doesn't bring about loyalties to Eleusis or something.
Off the top of my head, there is currently a Mhaldorian Sylvan (Nakari) along with a Targossan Druid (Kaiu). Don't or didn't know any others, but maybe I just never interacted with any of them. Aepas obviously used to be Druid, but he's Runie now. Cyrene has a small pile of forestals.
Also, we should totally start factionalising the forestal classes harder.
- (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place." - With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely." - (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")." - Makarios says, "Serve well and perish." - Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."
Blademaster/Monk seems like the perfect combination. Blademaster for PVP, Monk for bashing. Able to have the best of two things I love without breaking character RP style.
Oh wait, I'm a druid.
The earth is so good to me; So giving and so kind.
I don't want to multiclass... I'm the 1%. Or maybe we're more like 5%, I dunno. But, not at all interested in multiclass, personally.
@Daklore : you're oppressing the 99% who want to multiclass, you callous 1%er!
How? I don't even... I can't even...
I mean, I know that society is currently rife with people taking points of view as facts of law nowadays, but how is my personal view oppressing anyone? I even clearly stated "personally". I ain't saying you can't have bacon because I can't have bacon.
I can have bacon, I encourage everyone who is allowed to have bacon to have bacon. If you can't have bacon because of religious reasons, well, don't have bacon. If you can't because of medical reasons, I am truely, truely sorry... but I'm going to have bacon. And potentially tease you with it.
And yes, I get(I at least really really hope!) that @silvarien was trying to be funny, but dammit man, at least use a Kappa or some sort of sarcasm denoting tag!
When Canada rules the world, things will be... nii~ice.
@Daklore : Most of my jokes phail, sad to say. I was just drawing on the philosophy of the American left-wing 99% movement against the 1% they say are destroying everything. Since you said you were in the 1% that didn't want multiclass... well, my joke sucks and phailed. Back to the drawing board.
Agree with Athelas, we don't need to let mechanics dictate multiclass. We don't even need to let whether a class exists limit our multiclassing. I would multiclass Occultist/Pirate. Smuggling forsaken idols of the false powers of the universe out to Devil Reef. Woe to those who oppose. Woe to those who obey. Woe is imminent. Woe is immanent. Woe.
I enjoy being a serpent and multiclass only interests me in learning about the other classes without having to switch from my real passion. My hope there is a pently for being 2 classes and a perk with sticking with one. Either way should be interesting.
I'm kind of starting to agree @Daeir. My knee-jerk reaction is MUST HAVE! But I have a feeling everyone is going to go serpent, and I really love sylvan, so why do I feel the need to HAVE to multiclass? Subterfuge is just really nice, I don't really care about being a well-rounded serpent (combat, learning the intricacies of 1v1 techniques, etc) -- definitely food for thought.
If I multi-classed as anything, it would probably be as occultist. Only because I enjoy the flavour of the class (at least, in theory). Of course, that is if I get bored running around as an eight-foot tree who can control the weather at will. I'm really enjoying Sylvan.
With Athelas's recent performance, he has already started introducing himself as the Infernal Druid.
I just know this is going to raise a few eyebrows but he quite literally told Lady @Artemis that:
"I am the Infernal Druid. But I am Your Infernal Druid."
YES! Even something as META-GAME as Class, can be role played
But I do wonder if the game mechanic will allow for a Druid to also be an Infernal.
If you tell Rangor you're going to be Infernal, I'll first tell you why you can't, and if you're very persistent I'll nail you to a tree trunk and let you hang until you change your mind. We should probably discuss how Necromancy is anathema to Nature at one point.
@Rangor, totally get it. And yes, that would be part of the RP. But if it is possible, I can almost guarantee you that Athelas won't be making this general knowledge. So don't take it In Game if it doesn't happen there
The whole point is that Necromancy IS anathema to Nature.
But then again, just because you own a gun, does not mean you are a murderer. So play it, let's see where it goes if it's even remotely possible.
If Druid + Infernal is not possible, I'll have to get creative on how to communicate what has happened and what he has become. But it will almost certainly be something the general forest community would not approve of or at least frown upon.
In more understandable terms, I believe one can think of Athelas as the embodiment of Yin and Yang. It's not completely accurate, but it does make understanding him a bit easier.
Yup. Can you imagine the outcry when the whole village are like:
"You bad! You Infernal! We keeel you!"
And Athelas is all like:
"But no! Wait! You don't understand! I fight and die for Nature!"
The village goes:
"We not care! We see monster! We keeel you!"
OR it could go like:
"Dude! WTF! Explain yourself."
And Athelas goes:
"Know your enemy! I've studied the ways of the Infernal, yes I have those skills. But only because I've had to learn how and what they are. I hope to use that knowledge to better defend nature against them."
And the Village goes:
"Ok dude, we can live with that, but watch it! As much as a single exterm from you and we'll have you guts for garters."
And besides, think about just a difficult it would be for him to gain those skills. Who would he study from? This is an RP rich, atomic bomb, that can explode in any one of a million ways.
He could end up as a revered Eleusian, an eccentric unaccepted Eleusian, an outcast desperate to prove his regard for Nature etc, etc, etc. The beautiful thing about contrast, is that you never know quite how it will pan out. Even if you are the one with the steering wheel, you just don't have the control you normally would, so ... we'll see if it is possible first. Then we'll see if we can RP it
What happens will be the aforementioned hanging from a tree.
- (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place." - With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely." - (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")." - Makarios says, "Serve well and perish." - Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."
Condemned for wanting to defend the thing he cares for most
Just imagine the results on the Poetry news
But we really are jumping the gun here. It's most probably never going to happen. I just really like playing his "dark-side" and this would be an interesting avenue.
The most likely thing that will happen though, is that he never does the multi-class thing, but ends up with a very visible, disliked and/or adored ability to publicly skin Mhaldorians alive, and using the skin to make decorative back-packs for his fellow Eleusians.
I've had a long pilgrimage with classes and I think I've finally found what I've been looking for in Shaman.
Maybe serpent, if anything. But it is a very tentative maybe.
Shaman is basically built-in multiclass anyway.
Re serpent: the more I think about it, the more I kind of hope they don't give class-specific traits and racial specialisations, even if it means I probably can't be serpent again. That, especially combined with what I imagine will be limitations on switching class that make things like phasing into a city and then switching to a different class pretty unreasonable to do, should help cut down on every single person picking up serpent for utility. In general, I really hope we don't see a bunch of people using multiclass as a way to get a "utility mode".
While there are definitely opportunities to RP a form of "dark Nature", it would never be acceptable to use/practice Necromancy. I'm fairly sure it'd be plain impossible, but even if it's not, it'd be ousting for sure. It may be possible for a rogue to pull it off, but you'd be an outcast to both Mhaldor and Eleusis, and I don't think that'd be very interesting for long.
I think what'd actually happen in reality is you'd pick Infernal, get immediately ousted from Eleusis and forest enemied, then promptly anathema'd for being a former Eleusian and be stuck locked out of two factionally oriented classes forever.
Comments
I personally find the idea of someone using forestal skills with a darker pitch interesting, like when in Airbender Katara learned how to take water from plants to be able to fight with her water skills. I could see there being an extremist faction who want to propagate nature by any means necessary. And that could mean destroying certain locations to get more power, for a time, to be able to force it on a city. The ends justifying the means.
I think, in a totally OOC way, it'd be fun to play with.
Lucine would never do it though, she's way too nice. She cries when she kills cute animals.
EDIT:
Also, I think there were some grandfathered in Targossas, but I could be wrong.
And you won't understand the cause of your grief...
...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.
Edit: Totally going back to Quil's roots as Jester.
Also, we should totally start factionalising the forestal classes harder.
- With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
- (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
- Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
- Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."
It's a sign @Sarapis, we've matured enough to deserve multiclass. It must be released!
Oh wait, I'm a druid.
So giving and so kind.
I mean, I know that society is currently rife with people taking points of view as facts of law nowadays, but how is my personal view oppressing anyone? I even clearly stated "personally". I ain't saying you can't have bacon because I can't have bacon.
I can have bacon, I encourage everyone who is allowed to have bacon to have bacon. If you can't have bacon because of religious reasons, well, don't have bacon. If you can't because of medical reasons, I am truely, truely sorry... but I'm going to have bacon. And potentially tease you with it.
And yes, I get(I at least really really hope!) that @silvarien was trying to be funny, but dammit man, at least use a Kappa or some sort of sarcasm denoting tag!
When Canada rules the world,
things will be... nii~ice.
Edit: by the way, nice moose.
The whole point is that Necromancy IS anathema to Nature.
But then again, just because you own a gun, does not mean you are a murderer. So play it, let's see where it goes if it's even remotely possible.
If Druid + Infernal is not possible, I'll have to get creative on how to communicate what has happened and what he has become. But it will almost certainly be something the general forest community would not approve of or at least frown upon.
In more understandable terms, I believe one can think of Athelas as the embodiment of Yin and Yang. It's not completely accurate, but it does make understanding him a bit easier.
"You bad! You Infernal! We keeel you!"
And Athelas is all like:
"But no! Wait! You don't understand! I fight and die for Nature!"
The village goes:
"We not care! We see monster! We keeel you!"
OR it could go like:
"Dude! WTF! Explain yourself."
And Athelas goes:
"Know your enemy! I've studied the ways of the Infernal, yes I have those skills. But only because I've had to learn how and what they are. I hope to use that knowledge to better defend nature against them."
And the Village goes:
"Ok dude, we can live with that, but watch it! As much as a single exterm from you and we'll have you guts for garters."
And besides, think about just a difficult it would be for him to gain those skills. Who would he study from?
This is an RP rich, atomic bomb, that can explode in any one of a million ways.
He could end up as a revered Eleusian, an eccentric unaccepted Eleusian, an outcast desperate to prove his regard for Nature etc, etc, etc. The beautiful thing about contrast, is that you never know quite how it will pan out. Even if you are the one with the steering wheel, you just don't have the control you normally would, so ... we'll see if it is possible first. Then we'll see if we can RP it
- With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
- (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
- Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
- Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."
-
One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important
Just imagine the results on the Poetry news
But we really are jumping the gun here. It's most probably never going to happen. I just really like playing his "dark-side" and this would be an interesting avenue.
The most likely thing that will happen though, is that he never does the multi-class thing, but ends up with a very visible, disliked and/or adored ability to publicly skin Mhaldorians alive, and using the skin to make decorative back-packs for his fellow Eleusians.
Re serpent: the more I think about it, the more I kind of hope they don't give class-specific traits and racial specialisations, even if it means I probably can't be serpent again. That, especially combined with what I imagine will be limitations on switching class that make things like phasing into a city and then switching to a different class pretty unreasonable to do, should help cut down on every single person picking up serpent for utility. In general, I really hope we don't see a bunch of people using multiclass as a way to get a "utility mode".
Also, I'm looking at shaman for multiclass.