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Delete Veils

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  • HalosHalos San FranciscoMember Posts: 1,469 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Kayeil said:
    Like some said before, it's REALLY easy to just get a friend to locate people for you.

  • TeshaTesha Member Posts: 2,935 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Don't be a mark if you can't handle veils. It's one of the smallest problems about being a mark. If you can't handle veils, you definitely can't handle pinning a good opponent down long enough to kill them. 

     i'm a rebel

    Kayeil
  • JinsunJinsun TN, USAMember Posts: 2,927 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I mean I got a veil just because I'm a mark. I had several targets who would only hunt in UW or Annwyn or off mainland. Good luck finding do someone with a veil to tag along. I have one. If they get deleted all I get is a giant credit refund that I felt silly for spending in the first place. I want them deleted for obvious reasons
    image
  • HellenHellen Member Posts: 165 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    If we really were going to make the veil a serpent-only thing, make it last five minutes and only useable once every twelve hours. Make the veil artefact negate this. Otherwise, I find veils absolutely obnoxious and think there should probably be a city improvement that negates the veil for city enemies within the city at the very least.
  • VakvyrVakvyr Member Posts: 105 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    In case anyone has not noticed this, this entire thread is "I don't want to buy a veil because of a veil", "Buy a veil because of a veil", and "I bought a veil because of a veil". 
    HalosTael
  • BorranBorran Member Posts: 845 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    First off, I don't believe Veils should be deleted. Deleting content isn't the best way to approach every problem that we see in Achaea. Modifying it to meet the needs of the players is a better approach, so stop posting DELETE EVERYTHING topics, please.

    However, I do think it's time for the Veil to see some modification because it leaves no room for counterplay on certain classes. I -don't- think the answer is to give only serpents the ability to be Veil'd. Can you imagine that for a minute? Serpents that can snipe you for days without you being able to find their location? Backstabs for days? And the only way you can beat it is if you happen to have a serpent on your side that has a Veil to counter it?! No thanks.

    What I propose is make the veil ability a defense, with the actual artefact only being able to grant the defense, and throwing an eye sigil at them removes the defense and prevents it from being put up again for a slightly extended duration.

    When the veil is used to raise the defense, have it as a wind-up ability, sort of like Serpent phasing.

    Leave veil penetration by veils intact- but only when the veil defense is up. That way if a veil-user wants to go undetected, they find the other veil user, throw an eye, and go about their merry way for the duration of the eye sigil debuff.

    This means that anything that strips defenses could potentially counter a veil, as well as eye sigils, or another veil user. 


  • BorranBorran Member Posts: 845 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    If this ^ gets implemented, I'm sure many people will want refunds, so be prepared. =P

  • BorranBorran Member Posts: 845 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Oh, and I bought my Veil because I collected intel on the presence of high-risk individuals (thieves) with the Diagnose bug until it was fixed- once it was fixed, I had to buy a veil to do the same thing. But once I got a veil, I had no reason not to go serpent, so I did... and then I needed a gem. Then all my friends stopped talking to me. ;_;

  • TahquilTahquil Member Posts: 4,356 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I got a veil simply because I didn't want people to be able to easily locate me when I was in underworld/annwyn. Then I found they still could so I brought a gem as well.

    Didn't buy it because other people had it, or I wanted to find other people that had it. I just wanted to stay hidden as I slunk around the dangerous parts mopping up the mobs people don't bother with.
  • JacenJacen Member Posts: 2,305 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I bought a veil just so I could argue for the deletion of veils as a veil user on forum threads just like this. 

    More seriously, I bought it to find veiled raiders/mindnet during raid defense
    image
  • KyrraKyrra AustraliaMember Posts: 4,853 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    If veils get deleted, can I have a refund for the veils I bought other people? >.>

    People already got free credits when torcs got deleted :(
    (D.M.A.): Cooper says, "Kyrra is either the most innocent person in the world, or the girl who uses the most innuendo seemingly unintentionally but really on purpose."

  • TalysinTalysin Member Posts: 575 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Don't hijack my delete rant! Delete web tat and buckawns!
  • DarkenderDarkender Member Posts: 41 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Wait wait... Kyrra bought other people veils as well? Why can't there be someone in Eleusis like you :-(
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    Heh, I do think the timing on this thread was kind of bad.  One thing at a time!  But, there really are just a few items that consistently come up as candidates for deletion.  I don't see this as any sort of "omg, delete everything" trend.  Veils and earrings were always on that (short) list, and buckawns definitely feel like they're in a similar vein.  Veils and buckawns are both sort of a 6-minute abs sort of mechanic, and earrings... well, let's not make this a trifecta today, but there have been plenty of discussions about them.  

    Also, if people get veil refunds, they should start an IRL Kyrra retirement fund (not that they will get cash refunds, of course, as bizarrely came up on the last page).  
  • AepasAepas Member Posts: 1,619 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Veils are annoying. So are lvl 3 blademasters. So are serpents that just snipe.
    Annoying tactics, they frustrate me. Carry on with life.
    Replies the scorpion: "It's my nature..."
    Klendathu
  • TeghaineTeghaine Cape Town - South Africa - Africa (thatcontinentthatlookslikesouthamerica)Member Posts: 116 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    ...Lol
    Wei
  • SarathaiSarathai Member Posts: 2,139 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Darkender said:
    Wait wait... Kyrra bought other people veils as well? Why can't there be someone in Eleusis like you :-(
    This so much. I want a veil. :(
    - (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place."
    - With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
    - (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
    - Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
    - Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."



  • AnariaAnaria Member Posts: 184 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I am relatively new to Achaea. I came to this game from another MUD that is on pretty much on deaths door. When I try to convince my friends from that game to play here, I am always having to make the uphill argument that Achaea is not a "pay to have fun" game. It is an argument I myself am believing less and less the more I play. The grind requirement is beyond any level of tedium I have experienced on any other game.

    I can't even begin to imagine just how miserably un-fun it would be to grind up 2000 credits, to say nothing of the kind of time investment that would involve, just for an item that does what the veil does. And yet, from where I am sitting, the veil seems like a requirement for the "endgame" if you have any plans to engage in player vs player. And since 99% of the skills and artefacts in the game seem to revolve around just that, I can't imagine why you would grind at all if you had any other intention.

    I fully understand that IRE is a business. It is exactly because it is a business that Achaea is free of the administrative corruption and lack of professionalism that plague almost every other text based game on the internet. I also acknowledge that a certain degree of "grind" is a fundamental part of any game like this. But to me, the veil and other items like it represent a massive "pay wall" set between any reasonable grind expectation and the point at which you are able to just start having fun. Something I have yet to be able to do.

    tl;dr

    Delete the veil.

     
    BlujixapugXith
  • RispokRispok Member Posts: 716 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Veil is fine, some of us like "grinding".
    KlendathuTitonus
  • KlendathuKlendathu Eye of the StormMember Posts: 3,178 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    It's not "unfun to grind up 2000 credits" for everyone though, some people enjoy the PvE elements. I've already done the "grinding" to dragon, I have no real reason to continue PvE other than I enjoy it. Getting the gold to buy credits from the market to buy more artefacts is additional motivation.

    You don't _need_ a veil to participate at higher levels, as has been mentioned previously in earlier posts, there are enough people in every city with veils to help those without locate people if required.

    Tharos, the Announcer of Delos shouts, "It's near the end of the egghunt and I still haven't figured out how to pronounce Clean-dat-hoo."
    Kayeil
  • SarathaiSarathai Member Posts: 2,139 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited May 2015
    Anaria said:
    And yet, from where I am sitting, the veil seems like a requirement for the "endgame" if you have any plans to engage in player vs player.
    It's really not unless you seriously go Mark, and even then you can just ask somebody in your city to help out. I'd say a much more essential one is getting a decent few of your skills transed.
    - (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place."
    - With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
    - (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
    - Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
    - Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."



    Tharvis
  • ChiamChiam Member Posts: 144 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Anaria said:

    And yet, from where I am sitting, the veil seems like a requirement for the "endgame" if you have any plans to engage in player vs player.

     
    This is completely false. The best fighters in Mhaldor don't have veils. Hell, only two current active combatants in Mhaldor have veils right now.

    To answer your question:

    Are veils essential to PvP? - No.
    Does it give a decent advantage? - Yes, if you want to jump people or prevent getting ganked from non-veiled people.
    What is essential, then? - Learning how to actually fight.


    Titonus
  • TaelTael Member Posts: 1,197 @ - Epic Achaean
    Veil is not even a little bit a "requirement".

    Many people still don't have them (largely because they're so expensive), so you don't need one to locate them. And for people who do have them, if you know a couple of people with a veil, in your city for instance, it's very common for them to set up triggers to automatically use location abilities on certain tells and relay the information: basically you just do "TELL PERSON Locate: TARGET" and they reply with the window/farsight/whatever message.

    The more veils proliferate, the more you need these "radar dish" friends, but the more veils proliferate, the more such radar dishes are to be found.

    I think it's a silly, overpriced mechanic and, like buckawn/web, it seems outrageously priced for a thing that just outright defeats another thing, but it's definitely not true that a veil is a requirement.

    The only time an artefacts really becomes "required" is when you're fighting at the absolute top-tier where you can no longer overcome someone by being smarter than them and you need to match their artefacts to compete with them (and even then, most top-tier fighters would probably duel without their artefacts if asked - you get to be top-tier by enjoying the challenge after all). Depending on your class, you might need an artefact or two that makes you tankier to compete against high-damage strategies before top-tier too.
  • MishgulMishgul ROTHERHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMember Posts: 5,372 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    If they are not in my room or line of sight they are not worth finding. 

    -

    One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important

    As drawn by Shayde
    hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae
    DalranJosoulTaelAedin
  • TibithaTibitha Member Posts: 742 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited May 2015
    Chiam said:
    Anaria said:

    And yet, from where I am sitting, the veil seems like a requirement for the "endgame" if you have any plans to engage in player vs player.

     
    This is completely false. The best fighters in Mhaldor don't have veils. Hell, only two current active combatants in Mhaldor have veils right now.

    To answer your question:

    Are veils essential to PvP? - No.
    Does it give a decent advantage? - Yes, if you want to jump people or prevent getting ganked from non-veiled people.
    What is essential, then? - Learning how to actually fight.


    No to mention, if I got a veil people would probably stop attacking me and then I'd have to go looking for fights and ain't nobody got time for that. :unamused: 
    WeiBrean
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,917 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I'd be ok with veils being deleted if there were some new artefacts introduced at the same time for me to spend the credits on. As it is, I'd rather have Veils and the accompanying complaints than another 2000 bound credits with nothing exciting to spend them on.
    Blujixapug
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    Well, this is pretty much what I meant by part of my post on the first page.  One of the main reason deleting veils probably wouldn't be a huge deal is that people who own veils have a LOT of arties already, so any credits they get back are probably pretty much mad money that isn't going to have much of an impact on their purchasing behavior, because they probably already HAVE almost everything a player could possibly want.  But, it also allows me to mention that they have introduced more artifacts over the years, so really, it feels like there should be enough new items (and hello, multi-class, both in terms of money we're going to spend on classes, and on artifacts for those classes) that deleting veils almost definitely shouldn't be some bank-breaking move.  That said, Antonius, this is like when I got refunded for my hammer, and, not thinking, asked "what am I going to do with all of these extra credits though" :P  
  • KayeilKayeil Washington StateMember Posts: 2,824 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Not all veil owners have tons of arties. I hunted up the credits to buy what I have. Could I find something to spend 2k credits on? Definitely. I'd rather keep my veil. I'm not the type to regret artefact purchases because I put a lot of thought into why each thing I buy would be important to me, so I'd be pretty unhappy to see veils go because mine was something I really wanted and worked at getting.
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    This is going to sound a little harsh, though it isn't meant that way, because I actually do believe that people who buy fewer credits bring value to the game - although I do take issue with people who make it a point to "not buy credits", both because it seems incredibly cheap/petty and because it boggles me that anyone would place so little value on their time.  It's one thing to recognize your current financial limitations and spend responsibly, it's another to have some weird personal agenda of not financially supporting a game you like.  

    Basically though, veil is a capstone artifact, and for big customers, it's probably NOT one of the first things they buy.  It might be sometimes, but probably not usually, or even very often.  And that is the major financial consideration here, not the occasional person who (good god) actually HUNTS up 2000+ credits.  
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