Delete Veils

Xith

I'll keep this brief, 'cause it's simple, and also 'cause I'm on my lunch break.

With the new Mark changes, I remembered the primary reason I won't join the Mark, which is that I'd have to buy a veil. And I'll list the reasons why:
1. Veils are annoying
2. Veils exist only to be annoying
3. To overcome the annoyingness of the veil, you must yourself become annoying.

You already have to stack a certain number of artefacts to compete in high level combat, artefacts which directly affect combat and not just make you impossible to find except by other rich people. So... while it's a terrific luxury item, I don't think it really serves anyone's interest or is necessary to the game.
If there are any necessary functions of the Veil, I'd propose they be replaced by an artefact that does only those functions and isn't a sweeping scry/farsee-blocker.

If I had to pick a solution, it'd be to make it a serpent-only willpower-draining ability.

Jules

Summoning the veil-vanquishing forum fairy @Nim.  By the way I asked for veils to be discontinued as a way to slowly phase them out and it was denied, but I actually DO believe that doesn't mean "never ask again".  There's a reason this topic comes up repeatedly (and actually, usually has quite a bit of support for some form of "get rid of it").

Jinsun

Please delete veils I would love a refund on the 2000 credit artefact that I bought just so I could use a novice level occultism ability 

Jules

I'd suggested a phase out for that reason, but really, most people who own veils have already bought a staggering amount of credits, and veil is a capstone type artefact anyway.  Even refunds really might not be that big of a deal. 

Morthif

you don't have to buy a veil....





.. you could buy a hood instead

Ahmet

this^^

Austere

There are plenty of people with veils in every city.  Relaying target location is cake.  Even setting up a simple trigger so that people can ask you to locate others, is easy. While I would love to see it go away, I also understand that IRE is a business.  If they deleted all the arties because of fairness reasons, where is the room for profit.  Veils have been a money grab since inception, imo, but I don't have a problem with that.  If they stop grabbing money and start refunding everything, how long until the servers shut down?  

short version: make friends with a veil user. 

Melodie

While I always support deleting veils, I'd love to see some numbers on how many veils are out there, just to get an idea of the kind of refunds that would be needed.

Not likely, I know, but it does make you wonder if it's as big as we imagine, less, or worse.

Jhui

there should be a cheaper artie that finds veiled people but doesn't hide yourself.

Not everyone that owns a veil likes being a coward (most do), but wear/remove spam isn't a good solution for those people that don't mind being found.

Aedin

Jhui said:

there should be a cheaper artie that finds veiled people but doesn't hide yourself.

Not everyone that owns a veil likes being a coward (most do), but wear/remove spam isn't a good solution for those people that don't mind being found.

Would buy for sure 

Grandue

Get away from my veil. And buckawns. And every other artifact that I've purchased because I wanted it. 

Sena

Jhui said:

there should be a cheaper artie that finds veiled people but doesn't hide yourself.

Not everyone that owns a veil likes being a coward (most do), but wear/remove spam isn't a good solution for those people that don't mind being found.

Even without making a cheaper version, just the ability for normal veils to turn the hiding aspect on/off while keeping the veil-piercing would probably make veils a lot less important in the long run. And slowly phasing out veils with an upgrade to veils is probably going to be a lot more palatable than doing it with a nerf to veils (or a cheaper artefact that devalues them).

Mishgul

i traded my veil in, my game experience has not changed whatsoever. I can't remember why I bought it now.

Morthif

Melodie said:

While I always support deleting veils, I'd love to see some numbers on how many veils are out there, just to get an idea of the kind of refunds that would be needed.

Not likely, I know, but it does make you wonder if it's as big as we imagine, less, or worse.

a cash refund? I hardly think that's feasible

Melodie

Cash? No no, I meant credit refund. Why would you think cash?

Morthif

because credits are fake.. it's not an impact worth a case study is it?

Atalkez

Morthif said:

because credits are fake.. it's not an impact worth a case study is it?

They become real when you swap your currency for them. That is what a microeconomy in a game is. To IRE,  they are just part of the script. Refunds are quantitative in that sense as an arbitrary value that IRE places.

Morthif

Right but wouldn't you think most veil owners, myself included, just find more reasons to spend our money on IRE? I will happily spend that 2000cr in 2 mins and then continue to have my next artie in mind.

Atalkez

That doesn't change the merits of the argument for the topic at hand. There would be no true refund if you all spend the 2000 again, since it stays with IRE regardless. 

Morthif

right.. that's 100% my point

Rispok

Delete threads about deleting veils.

Darkender

I have a veil and I also wish they'd completely delete all of them. I would love for people to know where I am at any time, but unfortunately I have to have a veil in order to locate people for assassin duties. There are certain artifacts that just shouldn't be in the game because of the counter-balance issue where the only way to counter it is to get it yourself.

Rom

Darkender said:

I would love for people to know where I am at any time, but unfortunately I have to have a veil in order to locate people for assassin duties.

if sneak == false then send("wear hood486413`scry for "..matches[2].."`remove hood486413") else send("scry for "..matches[2]) end

I would love for veils to finally be removed or modified for player benefit.

Edit: But I doubt they will be.

Darkender

Yep you're probably right, it's literally a 300 dollar purchase that ire probably can't live without 

Katzchen

Darkender said:

Yep you're probably right, it's literally a 300 dollar purchase that ire probably can't live without 

Nearly double that actually.

Halos

oh another one of these threads

Austere

After careful consideration,  I would like to change my vote to: no,  leave as is.  Not because I feel particularly strongly about it,  but because I don't want to lose the ability to call people peasants/casuals.  The hierarchy of credit purchasing must be maintained! 

Kayeil

I've never had a problem with the existence of veils, before or after purchasing one. I bought a veil and gem because I'm not super social and wanted to be left alone, and it helped a lot with that. Also as a non-com, it's nice that if I'm hunting in a free PK area that not ever single person who enters can just sense me and kill me right away (or at least try to). I'd be pretty disappointed to see veils go, and I don't think they're so hard to obtain. Set a goal... earn at least 10 credits a day (60k gold), eventually you'd have what you need to purchase one if you want one. All I have I hunted for by setting realistic daily goals.  To be honest, I'd be happy to pay credits for an upgrade that works like the ethereal shroud on a permanent basis. I think people just need to realize that games like this are always going to have some premium items that cost a bit and provide some kind of advantage the buyer wants, and other people may not like it, but the admins are never going to be able to please everyone. At the rate of these "delete this <item" threads that go around, or "delete or nerf this <skill>," I feel like if the admins listened there'd be no more artefacts because someone is always going to be unhappy about something. It doesn't kill you to not have one, and it's not this major game winning advantage to have one. Like some said before, it's REALLY easy to just get a friend to locate people for you.

Halos

Agree to #3

Your serpent-only ability solution sounds gross and op, nty.

I bought a veil for raid defense and party reporting. All of the people raiding Shallam at the time had one. I bought credits and traded in like three artefacts to manage it. No regrets.

Edit: To be clear, I don't mind veils going away at all as long as we all get refunds. Being able to trace currently-veiled serpents when they phase would be nice (veil defeats angel/demon trace always).

Melodie

I'd agree completely with the above (edit: Kayeil's post, that is) if a) This wasn't a multiplayer game, and b) It did not effect combat to a great degree.

It's also not about the price... it's about the fact about what the spent amount gets you. Could I earn a veil? Absolutely, even as someone who doesn't buy credits OOC. Will I? Hell no. There are a million things better to spend them on than a veil, and even if there wasn't, I wouldn't get one because this game is about interacting (both aggressive and non-aggressive), not a one-player type of thing. If I want to be by myself, entirely, I go on a ship and put up commscreen, or I go play a one-person game (Dragonage being my current bent).

Veils just give people too much immunity from consequence, which is an absolutely essential part of the Achaean world.

Also totally not posting after this because the admins are likely just going to ignore this thread like the last half a dozen. Not worth the time and the typed words.

Kayeil

I don't think veils make one avoid interaction completely. It just allows me to make the choice to limit interaction to the people I'm used to interacting with regularly. Honestly, the gem is more about limiting interaction than a veil is, and I could turn off my gem at any time if I wanted to.