So I leave for a weekend concert series, and I can't be a priest in Cyrene anymore?

Agrias

The problem is that doing such a thing is literally unprecedented, and has never happened before, on any situation, or any circumstance, to the best of my knowledge.  It's not really the Garden's fault that we the players chose to do this, so I doubt they would trip over themselves to help out.  But then again, @Sarapis is a really super nice guy, so who knows?

Itkovian

Quite frankly, the writing was on the wall for this for quite some time. It's entirely normal that Cyrene would be the one shouldering the cost. It's not like Targ did not leave Devotionists a choice.

I would have preferred a more direct approach than "let's escalate the first incident we can find", quite frankly, but the end result is the same (except maybe for Targ's image).

Personally I wish we'd kept Shallam and just gained Targossas for the hardcore fanatical Good RP players, or otherwise have a city which actively opposes the Bad People yet still embraces principles like Honour and the Ends do not Justify the Means. As it stands, that's no longer an option (which is why I was planning on remaining in the Dawnguard and defend Targ, which sadly was not possible).

But what's done is done, and I have to admit Cyrene is a wonderful city. As far as general friendliness and collaboration and dedication, it is quite remarkable. And while I wish I could have remained the Paladin Knight that Itkovian has been for over a decade, after what I've seen in the last few days I am proud to be Cyrenian.

Thank you.

Itkovian

Kakotas

If not perhaps @Halos could be a really nice guy and bug @Yen to sell us credits at that rate... I mean Yen would love the extra gold for upkeep.

Jeslyn

I'd just like to say that I love how this all panned out. Sorry, @Aodfionn to grief you by becoming one of the few rogue devotionists. No city. No house. No worries. Holy heck, what am I going to do with this freedom?!

Kandra

At least you've, hopefully, found a solution to make you happy in achaea. That is what it's for, after all.

Jeslyn

Kandra said:

At least you've, hopefully, found a solution to make you happy in achaea. That is what it's for, after all.

I'm just super relieved and happy. I love Cyrene and I also like Targossas. I felt that becoming a rogue would be the best option.

Kaden

Sit back, drink rum and throw all the empty bottles at the people who interrupt your ranting?

...Damn, now I want to do that.

Kakotas

@Kaden

Welcome to Clan Aleswill'r your drinking lessons begin right after you change race. We also accept rogue priestesses.

Daklore

So... guys... now that we got rid of devotion... We can have full control over toteming now, right? Right? Runewardens -were- Cyrene's factional class before autoclass, admit it. Thusly, it stands to reason that now, only Cyrenians and allies-thereof can implant totems

(I am aware it'll never happen, but no one would wanna tick off Cyrene if we're the only ones who can fix your totems )

Itkovian

Daklore said:

So... guys... now that we got rid of devotion... We can have full control over toteming now, right? Right? Runewardens -were- Cyrene's factional class before autoclass, admit it. Thusly, it stands to reason that now, only Cyrenians and allies-thereof can implant totems

(I am aware it'll never happen, but no one would wanna tick off Cyrene if we're the only ones who can fix your totems )

Firstly, I want that signature image. Pure awesome.

Secondly, it's not THAT farfetched. Shamans have their own totems now, after all. Of course, the main issue would THEN be that Shamans would no doubt be Hashan's factional class.

But then again that's not so different to how things used to be, with cities dealing with one or the other Totem city for maintaining their totems. Though, of course, back then you could still have rogue Runewardens/Shamans doing their thing.

I'm 100% for all cities having their own factional class(es), but it does come with caveats. For example, factional classes usually involve a heavy divine hand, which one might say that's the price we pay for being in charge of our own destiny: nobody tells us what to do, but in exchange we don't get a unique class.

But if we could move past THAT little issue, odds are Bard would be more acceptable. Runewardens would be great if the totem issue could be resolved, but it would also mean that Knight classes would only be available in 3 cities.

Still, one can dream.

Vion

Apparently every guild/city/house/class I have joined I have accomplished it so well that the meta gaming admins had to step in and destroy my RP because I was just too damn powerful. People swarmed from every corner of the game world just to be my friend. Over night entire houses, clans, and structures just arose from nothing.

When I joined achaea it stated the organizations would be "player-driven" so stop pulling the strings! Its not my problem if I am popular, talented, sexy, and all around awesome.

I will suggest this to all of you suffering from static stagnant RP being inflicted upon you without consent report every one of the strangers whom track you down and break character to bark out orders to you.

Ahmet

Daeir said:

... blah blah ...

I am the most excited for the prospects of a new set of relations between Targossas and Cyrene, as Jurixe has already outlined above. Open and forthright hostility can now finally be brought into the picture without awkwardly treading on people's toes. This is nothing but a good thing, and I very much look forward to how things are going to progress in the coming weeks and months.

This is the problem with Targossas though. They're out to pick a fight with everyone, even the people who supported you. Yer gonna end up worse than Mhaldor. 

Achilles

Ahmet said:

Daeir said:

... blah blah ...

I am the most excited for the prospects of a new set of relations between Targossas and Cyrene, as Jurixe has already outlined above. Open and forthright hostility can now finally be brought into the picture without awkwardly treading on people's toes. This is nothing but a good thing, and I very much look forward to how things are going to progress in the coming weeks and months.

This is the problem with Targossas though. They're out to pick a fight with everyone, even the people who supported you. Yer gonna end up worse than Mhaldor. 

This isn't true.  Targossas has gone out of its way to not fight Eleusis for instance, ignores Hashan (and I'm sure the same towards Cyrene a few months from now) for the most part and spends most of their time fighting Mhaldor, and defending against Ashtan.

Verrucht

Achilles said:

Ahmet said:

Daeir said:

... blah blah ...

I am the most excited for the prospects of a new set of relations between Targossas and Cyrene, as Jurixe has already outlined above. Open and forthright hostility can now finally be brought into the picture without awkwardly treading on people's toes. This is nothing but a good thing, and I very much look forward to how things are going to progress in the coming weeks and months.

This is the problem with Targossas though. They're out to pick a fight with everyone, even the people who supported you. Yer gonna end up worse than Mhaldor. 

This isn't true.  Targossas has gone out of its way to not fight Eleusis for instance, ignores Hashan (and I'm sure the same towards Cyrene a few months from now) for the most part and spends most of their time fighting Mhaldor, and defending against Ashtan.

idk where you been, but that's patently untrue.

Vion

"There is no RP justification for Targossas offering Cyrene any aid to cover the costs of the class changes. Cyrene got a pretty clear choice, let Targossians preach or get Devotion nixed. They chose the latter. No refunds, do not pass go, do not collect $200."

There always is RP justification for a city to grant asylum to refuges. By its very nature that is how a city is formed not by any other virtual means but by sheltering people. You sir are simply a griefer with no sense of RP. No one chose anything consent was mandatory as this event was already sanctioned and if not this time another event would have been staged and more forcibly thrust upon the players.

It is simply Tyranny and I guarantee no one wants to play achaea with you losers in that craptactular house that was about to shut down. Those organizations that need to break and die because they fail, should not be fed a stimulus package of players as fresh meat straight into the grinder.

Agrias

I forgot how weird you were, Vion.

Verrucht

Vion said:

"There is no RP justification for Targossas offering Cyrene any aid to cover the costs of the class changes. Cyrene got a pretty clear choice, let Targossians preach or get Devotion nixed. They chose the latter. No refunds, do not pass go, do not collect $200."

There always is RP justification for a city to grant asylum to refuges. By its very nature that is how a city is formed not by any other virtual means but by sheltering people. You sir are simply a griefer with no sense of RP. No one chose anything consent was mandatory as this event was already sanctioned and if not this time another event would have been staged and more forcibly thrust upon the players.

It is simply Tyranny and I guarantee no one wants to play achaea with you losers in that craptactular house that was about to shut down. Those organizations that need to break and die because they fail, should not be fed a stimulus package of players as fresh meat straight into the grinder.

Yeah, I'm on the opposite side of this and I actually agree there is no RP justification for Targ to offer any aid to cover the costs, except maybe in very individual situations. People didn't choose this event, but people can choose to be in Cyrene or leave and if they leave they won't lose anything. This was a player-driven event on both sides of the aisle.

You may not like that certain classes have restricted RP, but that's the way the administration has put them in - not the players.

Vion

Don't talk down to me Verrucht, speak your side and support it. Or do you prefer to put words in my mouth spreading disinformation and propaganda.

This action changes how the administration has put things into play no matter how wishy washy some may want to doctor up the rules. The players will always lose something and this event is at their expense. Most importantly they will lose relevant RP and back story in this upheaval. That is the most prized and treasured possession of such a deep roleplaying environment.

So I submit to you why not simply perma death all those players like back in the day when players were placed out of time. That sort of Tyranny did not work out did it. My side is winning and yours will lose Verrucht so join the winning side while you can.

This event happened right before summer when player populations were at their lowest and easily undermined so these organizations can directly control the influx of new players.

Failure must be purged, no more stimulus packages of fresh meat!

Verrucht

Vion said:

Don't talk down to me Verrucht, speak your side and support it. Or do you prefer to put words in my mouth spreading disinformation and propaganda.

This action changes how the administration has put things into play no matter how wishy washy some may want to doctor up the rules. The players will always lose something and this event is at their expense. Most importantly they will lose relevant RP and back story in this upheaval. The most prized and treasured possession of such a deep roleplaying environment.

I'm not talking down to you. I'm explaining to you what you seem to have a hard time grasping.

Agrias

It really was player-driven.  The admins didn't really have any pull, except to maybe perpetuate it once we had all made our choices.

Aerek

Daeir said:

There is no RP justification for Targossas offering Cyrene any aid to cover the costs of the class changes. Cyrene got a pretty clear choice, let Targossians preach or get Devotion nixed. They chose the latter. No refunds, do not pass go, do not collect $200.

I thought that was PAINFULLY OBVIOUS AND DID NOT NEED TO BE STATED but there it is, I guess.

People keep saying this like Cyrene's choice was at all difficult to make. Targossas and even Shallam's "foreign policy" for the last 100 years has been "Do everything we say, also ignore it when we break your laws, or we'll take away Devotion." It worked for a while, we played the battered wife to your controlling husband because we had a lot of established Devotionals, but you guys have to realize that our Devo population has been shrinking since the Citadel of Light days. At this point I'd be surprised if it was more than 5% of the active Cyrenian population, and only a handful of those were what I consider "established" Cyrenians. I know some of you wanted an excuse to strip it from Cyrene, and that's fine, some of us wanted the same thing, so let's not act like it's an awful, painful shame. The costs were simply not equaling the benefits any longer.

Sure, the city's picking up the tab for the change, because it's the right thing to do, IC and OOC, but I don't think anyone at the top is the slightest bit upset about it. The entire Cyrenian playerbase, as the referendum showed, had gotten very, very bored with the predictable, one-sided "RP" between our cities. It was time to call it quits on what had been a bad relationship for a long time. You were ranting earlier about not getting to "interact" with Cyrenians in the midst of all this change, but that's really the entire reason that we're willing to drop Devotion in the first place: every Targossian player that comes to interact with us has just one setting: petulant, derisive condescension. It's dull. It's been dull for years, and we were just pretty tired of it.

So no sweat, this doesn't need to weigh heavily on your consciences at all. Thanks for coming out and playing , but don't let the door hit you, you know?

Itkovian said:

I'm 100% for all cities having their own factional class(es), but it does come with caveats. For example, factional classes usually involve a heavy divine hand, which one might say that's the price we pay for being in charge of our own destiny: nobody tells us what to do, but in exchange we don't get a unique class.

This is the bottom line on factional classes, I think. The heavily-aligned factions have obligations to keep the game's conflict axes running, and thus get factionalized classes as a reward to keep players coming into those cities. The non-aligned states, Cyrene and Hashan, basically serve as the casual-play zones, which means we always have a solid influx of active players, so factional classes aren't really necessary to draw players in, and would probably go to waste on us because of our lack of fighters and clear goals as cities.

Morthif

This was really the only way this was going to be allowed to go. Cyrene had to be the one to make the move or from what I've been told the admins wouldn't allow it to happen. 

Daklore

Technically, they aren't losing any back-story whatsoever. Back-story is history, history is preceeding of this moment, therefor, no back-story is being lost. RP? Well, the RP you wanted for your character, maybe, but RP is supposed to be pliable, able to adapt to change. Change is happening, thus, either you adapt your RP, or you whine and moan about it. Adapting is a far more preferable choice in general, as it actually accomplishes something.

Sure, you can say I'm in such a lofty position, not being affected by having to change class, and I agree, changing class if you don't want to leave Cyrene is a pain... but come on, like everyone has already said over and over... "it's been wrote on the wall for -years-." Hell, we all knew this was going to come at some point after Rho. Newer players might be bitten a bit harder... but they should have been able to see the tension in the air and draw a fair conclusion about the tenuous nature of Devotion in Cyrene.

Naverre

@Vion Your attitude could use some clearing up. No one has spoken down to you, though you've felt the need to insult a fairly wide range of people in only two posts.

I should also point out that this "event" was not Divinely orchestrated (unless Aurora has been taking some lessons from Twilight). It was completely the result of player actions and reactions, and the real political friction between two cities. From my standpoint, it looked like the Divine were just going with the flow while the city leaders (and a good majority of the citizens) made their own choices.

Finally, the people forced to lose their class are not losing "relevant RP and back story". This will become a part of their RP and back story, and they will move onto a new future in new classes (or new cities, depending). Not everything that happens to your characters that isn't what you like is "bad RP" or "not RP at all". Roleplay, in the best cases, simulates real life consequences. Real life can be a bitch, and put you in positions you don't want to be in. That's the position these people are in now, and their roleplay will expand and be better for it.

Vion

Agrias said:

It really was player-driven.  The admins didn't really have any pull, except to maybe perpetuate it once we had all made our choices.

Exactly and don't think any of those officials got to where they are now without admin approval. And if you disagree then go back a couple successions and see it was all perpetuated not by players.

Naverre said:

@Vion Your attitude could use some clearing up. No one has spoken down to you, though you've felt the need to insult a fairly wide range of people in only two posts.

Oh so you make ad hominem attacks upon my intangible "attitude" and then hide behind faux scarecrow people to appear as some sort of high and mighty vigilante. That is all well and fine but where is any evidence to support your claims? In your rash emotional outburst it seems you misplaced that. So what's next are you going to cast a spell on me? Seems you can't separate fact from fiction.

The usual route to joining a new city is to renounce your backstory and disarm entirely so as to not be seen as a threat. Who would take in such people seen as informal enemies of an entire faction.

All of these players caught in this upheaval their plans are gone, there is no evidence of any claim they make, their actions are completely disconnected.

When one is too weak to forcibly perma death a player this is the route that is taken. A horrid meta game attack depriving others of the gaming experience they sought out to create from the start.

Verrucht

Vion said:

Exactly and don't think any of those officials got to where they are now without admin approval. And if you disagree then go back a couple successions and see it was all perpetuated not by players.

Could you explain this? It doesn't make any sense to me.

Silas

Haha lol.

Vion

Verrucht said:

Vion said:

Exactly and don't think any of those officials got to where they are now without admin approval. And if you disagree then go back a couple successions and see it was all perpetuated not by players.

Could you explain this? It doesn't make any sense to me.

Look it up, read the manual, find out for yourself. You will have to pen faster to catch me violating some patheticaly flimsy social construct in order to silence opposition to your cause. Verrucht you are wrong know it and accept it.

Verrucht

Vion said:

Verrucht said:

Vion said:

Exactly and don't think any of those officials got to where they are now without admin approval. And if you disagree then go back a couple successions and see it was all perpetuated not by players.

Could you explain this? It doesn't make any sense to me.

Look it up, read the manual, find out for yourself. You will have to pen faster to catch me violating some patheticaly flimsy social construct in order to silence opposition to your cause. Verrucht you are wrong know it and accept it.

Ok, you're just a troll.  Got it.

Agrias

Vion said:

Exactly and don't think any of those officials got to where they are now without admin approval. And if you disagree then go back a couple successions and see it was all perpetuated not by players.

Does he not realize that I'm one of those officials?  Pretty sure I got elected the normal way, through player votes.  The admins had nothing to do with it.

Edit: Yep, just a troll.  Moving on.