Tradeskill split

Sunny

Wouldn't it be easier to just make the permits cost more per skill? I mean first additional permit 50 credits. Second 100 credits third 150 credits...and so on. As it is not only do we have to spend 50 credits for another tradeskill slot, but then we have to invest more lessons in as well. Seems a bit of skimming from both sides that way.

Tharvis

Sunny said:

Wouldn't it be easier to just make the permits cost more per skill? I mean first additional permit 50 credits. Second 100 credits third 150 credits...and so on. As it is not only do we have to spend 50 credits for another tradeskill slot, but then we have to invest more lessons in as well. Seems a bit of skimming from both sides that way.

I would like this more than the lesson increase. Though I'd very much prefer the grandfather-in suggestion of @Kyttin. (and I doubt me and veldrin are the only ones in this one)

Tibitha

Regarding the new knight changes.

I currently only have rapiers as a proficiency (and shortsword and longsword of course), does this mean that I'll have to test the other weapon combinations (for weaponmastery) out without proficiency before making a decision?

Also, will knights still get one free customisation of a full plate? Or is that out the window? If so, what are my chances of getting one in before the change?  

May

Tradeskills that involve design submission (Cooking, Jewellery, and Tailoring) will still require the purchase of a license. Existing licenses will be converted into "crafting license tokens" which can be redeemed after the change occurs. They can be redeemed for the same license(s) you previously owned, or a different one.

For those who have all three, and they decide to only to get back say Jewellery. What happens with the other license tokens? Will those have a trade in value or can they be given to another player if you wish?

Addama

Tibitha said:

Regarding the new knight changes.

I currently only have rapiers as a proficiency (and shortsword and longsword of course), does this mean that I'll have to test the other weapon combinations (for weaponmastery) out without proficiency before making a decision?

Yes, it sounds like you'll have to do your testing without proficiency.  All that means is that you'll miss a lot.

Or be like me and just settle for dual blunt because it's godmode.

Sena

Trey said:

Oh, I actually have a fantastic question - now that stats are standardized,  @Tecton‌, will we be able to non-decay/reset normal forged goods now?

I don't think stats are the only reason non-decay/resetting weapons aren't allowed, considering you can't currently have denizen-sold weapons (which are already cheaply and near-infinitely available with standard stats) made non-decay/resetting. I would like if the policy was changed though.

Sunny said:

Wouldn't it be easier to just make the permits cost more per skill? I mean first additional permit 50 credits. Second 100 credits third 150 credits...and so on. As it is not only do we have to spend 50 credits for another tradeskill slot, but then we have to invest more lessons in as well. Seems a bit of skimming from both sides that way.

The opposite would be better; get rid of the credit costs, and increase the lesson costs more. Credits can be converted to lessons, lessons can't be converted to credits. Because of that, 50 credits are a lot more valuable than 300 lessons.

Greys

Heh, just imagining how bad @Naomh is going to be hit with this as she is primarily a crafter but also an alchemist.

Adet

Suladan said:

A suggestion: Instead of automatically transing the 3rd skill that's being replaced, why don't you just give the person the lessons? Some people that aren't combatants might not care if they have the 3rd skill, but getting the lessons out of that will help in defraying the cost of re-learning all the trade skills they -do- want. And if people want the third skill then they just spend half an hour learning it with the lessons they get. Gives the guy the option rather than deciding for them.

Also, it means that people can choose how they want to spend lessions even within the class - for instance, I'm trans Alchemy and  Transmutation, but only Expert Physiology.  Depending on just how the new skill works (where the abilities fall, what the Trans ability is, what synergies exist with the other skills), it may be better for me to be sub-trans in Formulation and Physiology than Trans/Expert.

Trilliana

Greys said:

Heh, just imagining how bad @Naomh is going to be hit with this as she is primarily a crafter but also an alchemist.

She and I are on the same level with all of this, as is @Lisbethae.

Amarillys

Trilliana said:

Greys said:

Heh, just imagining how bad @Naomh is going to be hit with this as she is primarily a crafter but also an alchemist.

She and I are on the same level with all of this, as is @Lisbethae.

I was about to be. So glad I held off on my cooking license till my finale...

Tecton

Kyttin said:

@Tecton Question, when the Alchemists themselves came in, and you where forestal and your city chose to not keep forestals and go the Alchemist way, people where grandfathered in. Why not allow people to be grandfathered in NOW for these skill sets themselves, then if they change class or create a new character, THEN this,...thing, will take affect. So IE Someone has Tailoring, Jewellery, and their class skill, they end up keeping them, transed, but say a newbie who comes in, is going to have to build their character up to those? I, personally, think it would be the better route.

We're taking the feedback from this thread under consideration, so one thing we may do, is negate the increasing lessons cost for things like Tailoring, Jewellery, and Cooking if they apply the license permit to it. Discussions are still underway, so don't go taking that as gospel.

Tecton

Trey said:

Oh, I actually have a fantastic question - now that stats are standardized,  @Tecton‌, will we be able to non-decay/reset normal forged goods now?

No plans to, no. Gotta keep those forgers in business, you know?

Tecton

Elazar said:

Here is my question: So I am now required to learn weaponmastery or I will not be able to do much in combat, right?

My issue is that I spent many credits in general skills I would not have...knowing that I must learn weaponmastery.  Now I gotta get another 1700 lessons (300cr) for combat?

Weaponmastery will be the primary combat skill for knights, yes. We should be able to help people in this situation out when the time comes to cut over.

Tecton

Kresslack said:

Trey said:

Daklore said:

Also, regarding forging hammers, why does only the last four months get a 100% refund. Most of us in the past bought a forging hammer because a forging hammer was the only way to improve forging... now that it's no longer needed for that(unless forging still takes a ridiculous amount of time... in which case it shouldn't...), all users with forging hammers should have the option for 100% refund on their hammers. Just sayin'

Still makes forging twice as fast,  which was the only genuine benefit (you could hit the same outlier stats without one). Disagree on the necessity of a refund, but I won't feel bad if they offer one. 

As for fullplate decaying,  it would be very nice for all existing suits of fullplate to be nondecay still, or at least give people who have trans forging one figurine in order to nondecay -one- suit. Some of us hadn't gotten a suit we were willing to blow our free customisation on, but now that stats are standardized there's no reason not to use it now.

This. I've lugged my fullplate around for years now, as a memento to keep on (was going to pass it along to one of the spawn eventually).

Edit: Forgot to tag you in my question regarding Milking/Toxiology/Loki's tear amulet: @Tecton.

Will have all the final details on trade-ins posted next week!

Kayeil

Is there going to be artefact armour, and if so, how far into the future should those be released?

Tecton

Addama said:

In praise of these changes: Forging was a terrible, awful, no-good skill that existed to punish an otherwise ambitious group of players for believing they might be luckier than average.

I'm probably going to drop some money on the new Armor/Weapon forging skills because of the customization perks.  Speaking of which:

@Tecton, if we had pre-existing scripts triggered by generic weapon descriptions (e.g. "an ornate steel rapier") will we have to totally change the trigger lines to adapt for custom weapon descriptions, or will attack messages retain the generic descriptions?

They'll follow a pretty standard format, so you should be able to get by with minor tweaks.

Tecton

Lisbethae said:

@Tecton‌

If I'm doing this right, I will need to pay about $300 in credits to remain at the same skill level I am currently. (trans in one class skill that is turning to 2 trades, and trans in 5 trades)

Is that about right?

As mentioned, we're working on some solutions for people who have a lot of tradeskills already - we're not trying to screw anyone over in this change.

Kenway

@Addama use:
an? (.+) rapier

Tecton

Austere said:

I believe it was asked before and skipped over,  but what about canvas in ink milling? Will it just be moved to tattoos.

 Also,  bloodboil was nerfed because magi had the best passive healing in game with purity. Will purity be relocated to crystalism/new skill, or is bloodboil going to have timer reduced?  Honestly,  I am fine with either,  but magi have so little hinder that if we can't out damage an affliction class,  we are screwed. @Seragorn‌ still walks over me in 24 seconds with me just healing (not wasting equilibrium on other things),  and I whore bloodboil and tree like nobody's business. 

The current plan is to move it into tattoos, yes.

Purity won't be moved back into the magi toolkit, but we can look at adjustments to bloodboil if they're needed after all of this!

Nexes

Tecton said:

Austere said:

I believe it was asked before and skipped over,  but what about canvas in ink milling? Will it just be moved to tattoos.

 Also,  bloodboil was nerfed because magi had the best passive healing in game with purity. Will purity be relocated to crystalism/new skill, or is bloodboil going to have timer reduced?  Honestly,  I am fine with either,  but magi have so little hinder that if we can't out damage an affliction class,  we are screwed. @Seragorn‌ still walks over me in 24 seconds with me just healing (not wasting equilibrium on other things),  and I whore bloodboil and tree like nobody's business. 

The current plan is to move it into tattoos, yes.

Yes! Ox tattoo saved.

Amarillys

And since I know there's been a lot of negativity surrounding all this, I just want to say... 

Thank you! As much as I'm scared about certain things, I am more excited for this to happen than anything! I'm glad to see it's moving forward! What a great Christmas present!

Tecton

Suladan said:

A suggestion: Instead of automatically transing the 3rd skill that's being replaced, why don't you just give the person the lessons? Some people that aren't combatants might not care if they have the 3rd skill, but getting the lessons out of that will help in defraying the cost of re-learning all the trade skills they -do- want. And if people want the third skill then they just spend half an hour learning it with the lessons they get. Gives the guy the option rather than deciding for them.

Well, the intention was to save some time and effort on your end by not having to relearn things. Sarapis and I will discuss options over the next few days, and try to come up with a solution for people in this situation.

Klendathu

Thanks for all the hard work @Tecton‌ and everyone else. You cannot please all of the people all of the time, best you can hope for is to please some of the people some of the time, and you all do that will great alacrity.

Tecton

Tibitha said:

Regarding the new knight changes.

I currently only have rapiers as a proficiency (and shortsword and longsword of course), does this mean that I'll have to test the other weapon combinations (for weaponmastery) out without proficiency before making a decision?

Also, will knights still get one free customisation of a full plate? Or is that out the window? If so, what are my chances of getting one in before the change?  

You'll have all proficiencies during the testing window, so you don't need to use your proficiency token to try things out.

Free customisations for fullplate fall under the "class perk" category, so they won't be able to be freely customised any more.

Tecton

May said:

Tradeskills that involve design submission (Cooking, Jewellery, and Tailoring) will still require the purchase of a license. Existing licenses will be converted into "crafting license tokens" which can be redeemed after the change occurs. They can be redeemed for the same license(s) you previously owned, or a different one.

For those who have all three, and they decide to only to get back say Jewellery. What happens with the other license tokens? Will those have a trade in value or can they be given to another player if you wish?

They will have a trade-in value.

Kenway

Any news on how weapon runes work now since we know they no longer give stat bonuses?

Ruth

Will patiently wait to hear about what tweaks will be made for those who want to keep their skills the way it is currently without needing to spending more money. In addition to the separated tradeskills, I wouldn't want my side interests to cost me an arm and a leg.. though comparatively speaking. I didn't really invest as much as others in tradeskills (Transcendent in Tailoring, Cooking, Gathering and Inkmilling).

I was already thinking of picking up (or planning to, anyway) Jewelry before the proposed changes. Should I wait until the changes/more details are posted next week to do so?

Tecton

Ruth said:

Will patiently wait to hear about what tweaks will be made for those who want to keep their skills the way it is currently without needing to spending more money. In addition to the separated tradeskills, I wouldn't want my side interests to cost me an arm and a leg.. though comparatively speaking. I didn't really invest as much as others in tradeskills (Transcendent in Tailoring, Cooking, Gathering and Inkmilling).

I was already thinking of picking up (or planning to, anyway) Jewelry before the proposed changes. Should I wait until the changes/more details are posted next week to do so?

Might be a wise move, just because you might find yourself falling in love with a different tradeskill!

Kyttin

Ruth said:

Will patiently wait to hear about what tweaks will be made for those who want to keep their skills the way it is currently without needing to spending more money. In addition to the separated tradeskills, I wouldn't want my side interests to cost me an arm and a leg.. though comparatively speaking. I didn't really invest as much as others in tradeskills (Transcendent in Tailoring, Cooking, Gathering and Inkmilling).

I was already thinking of picking up (or planning to, anyway) Jewelry before the proposed changes. Should I wait until the changes/more details are posted next week to do so?

I'd wait!

Tecton

Kenway said:

Any news on how weapon runes work now since we know they no longer give stat bonuses?

You'll know next week!