Tradeskill split

Addama

And now, for my question:

If you wish to change your Weaponmastery spec, will this require you to quit and rejoin your class, or will there be a mechanic/artefact to change your spec?

Trey

@Tecton, two questions -

1. How easy will it be to swap weapon styles on knights?

2. I'm not planning on it but I'm sure the question will come up: does the 1:1 trade for knight weapons only apply to -swapping-,  or will knights going from dual rapiers/axes/whatever to one of the single weapon specs be able to 1:1 swap for a bastard/long and then trade the other in for 1600cr?

Alarke

Wait! Are you saying we will have to spend more money to get the skills we already have and are going to lose? And only two? And we are going to lose the artefacts that we already paid for? Something is wrong here. I hope I am misreading all this. We should not have to pay for what we already paid for.

Tecton

Lisbethae said:

@Tecton‌

Will the tokens for Cooking, Jewellery and Tailoring allow you to be transcendent or will you need to learn those skills again using lessons? And would they include the 50% mark-up for a new tradeskill?

Will the refunds for transcendent Gathering and Inkmilling (and Cooking, Jewellery and Tailoring - depending on the answer to my first question) be enough to fund new transcendencies in those Trade skills, taking into consideration the 50% mark up per tradeskill learned?

The tokens will just cover the license cost, so you don't need to shell out 200cr to get relicensed. The lessons that you put into those skills will be refunded to you 100%.

You can then use the tokens on the same license, or a different one if you so desire.

You'll get 693 lessons back for each of your existing trade miniskills, so that will translate to transcendent in your first two miniskills in the new system. 

Ryldagh

Tecton said:

If you'd like to keep extraction/synthesis, you can pick those up as well, now for fewer lessons than you had to invest previously! Nobody is forcing you to pick those tradeskills though, you can do whatever you please, you can do forging and toxicology, or tailoring and inkmilling - however you want to customise your character!

Extraction and Metallurgy is in the Alchemy skillset, though.  Are alchemists that are Trans alchemy (or up to Metallurgy) learning the extraction/synthesis skills automatically when these changes go live?

As someone with inkmilling, gathering, cooking, tailoring, jewellery, and now transmutation counting towards two... I'm trying to think how many lessons you're asking me to find just to break even from this.

Ahmet

Ryldagh said:

Tecton said:

If you'd like to keep extraction/synthesis, you can pick those up as well, now for fewer lessons than you had to invest previously! Nobody is forcing you to pick those tradeskills though, you can do whatever you please, you can do forging and toxicology, or tailoring and inkmilling - however you want to customise your character!

Extraction and Metallurgy is in the Alchemy skillset, though.  Are alchemists that are Trans alchemy (or up to Metallurgy) learning the extraction/synthesis skills automatically when these changes go live?

As someone with inkmilling, gathering, cooking, tailoring, jewellery, and now transmutation counting towards two... I'm trying to think how many lessons you're asking me to find just to break even from this.

Too many.

Trey

I wonder if the skills you need to buy licenses for (jewelry/tailoring/etc) could be considered exempt from the tradeskill lesson increasing,  given that you have to pay for the license itself already. 

Tecton

Amarillys said:

Any chance we choose between getting license tokens back from our licensed skills (cooking, tailoring, jewellery) and get trade skill permits instead? So like, if I wanted, I could keep one license token and trade my other in for four permits? Obviously I'd have to spend the lessons on all the stuff, but... I think I'd prefer that to be able to get my gathering back and maybe some other fun things and just have other people submit tailoring stuff for me while I stay a jeweller.

I was considering adding a trade-in option for the permits, which would facilitate this. Nothing set in stone just yet - this is probably the largest single code release we've ever put in, so things are pretty madhouse!

Amarillys

Tecton said:

Amarillys said:

Any chance we choose between getting license tokens back from our licensed skills (cooking, tailoring, jewellery) and get trade skill permits instead? So like, if I wanted, I could keep one license token and trade my other in for four permits? Obviously I'd have to spend the lessons on all the stuff, but... I think I'd prefer that to be able to get my gathering back and maybe some other fun things and just have other people submit tailoring stuff for me while I stay a jeweller.

I was considering adding a trade-in option for the permits, which would facilitate this. Nothing set in stone just yet - this is probably the largest single code release we've ever put in, so things are pretty madhouse!

Or better yet, and I think I can speak for basically every one, make the licensed skills separate from trade skills since they already have the 200 credit overhead, adding a further cost seems unnecessary. Let people keep their licensed skills, make them their own sub skill style, and do everything else you were planning on doing because it's a perfectly fine idea. That way, no matter how many trade mini-skills someone has (gathering and inkmilling with my proposal), they can get them all back at no cost or go to something else they would prefer without having to choose between the licensed skills they love and the other trade skills.

Otherwise... do the first one because I at least know I'd appreciate it.

Tecton

Ahmet said:

So... if you wanted tailoring as a third tradeskill, you'd have to pay 50 credits for the extra credit slot, pay 200 credits for the permit, AND spend an extra 50% lessons in it, instead of previously just the cost of the permit?

I'm thinking we'll probably include the additional slot when people try to redeem the license, if they've already filled their two base slots with skills, saving that additional outlay.

Sena

Vesios said:

Can you at least give us an idea? A name or flavor of the overall skill(s[if the forestal classes are indeed getting separate things]) that we'll be receiving? I currently have a mix of excited curiosity and nervous trepidation, and it's slowly moving closer and closer towards the latter.

It was said in a previous thread that the new skill for sentinels will (or was planned to at the time) make more use of their spears/tridents, so there's a small hint (though not for your class).

Tecton

Vesios said:

As an albeit new druid, I think I can say that losing Concoctions will definitely affect forestals in terms of both mechanical value (free refills/sip bonus/the general herbal economy) and roleplay/flavor value (the whole aspect of a forestal being able to "live off the land", between the squirrel morph and Concoctions). And I'll readily admit that, to me at least, the sheer lack of information on what we're getting in exchange is a little... unnerving. There's been extensive talk about knight changes and now, with this post, alchemist changes have been acknowledged and at least given a name and an overall theme that they'll be working with.

Can you at least give us an idea? A name or flavor of the overall skill(s[if the forestal classes are indeed getting separate things]) that we'll be receiving? I currently have a mix of excited curiosity and nervous trepidation, and it's slowly moving closer and closer towards the latter.

Nothing concrete right now, still very much in the design stage and changing daily! Sorry!

Deladan

It is times like this I am glad that I never actually went through with applying to be a coder at IRE. Your pain, I feels it @Tecton.

Nexes

Seftin said:

I just wanted to check - is this an actual fix for Knight combat, or just a cash cow for achaea? I understand Achaea must make a profit to run, and happy that they do as I enjoy the game.

It seems with these changes you are catering to the people who can afford to pay 1600cr a pop for a level 3 artefact weapon, to guarantee an edge - speed, damage, to hit - over any other player in the game who can't compete with their disposable income.

If stats are standardised for non-artie, and guaranteed to be worse than artefact weapons, you are creating a pay to win culture in the knight field. Is this something that you guys seriously thought through on a "balance combat" basis (taking in to account the balance between artied and unartied weapons presently being pretty good if you get good rapiers forged) or was it just a "Hey lets do this and get some lvl 3 weapon sales in" as, looking at it from an outsiders point of view, that's how it seems.




tl/dr - did you change artie weapons to be guaranteed better than forged to make a pay to win aspect and guarantee credit sales?

This is kind of a ludicrous stance when stat artifacts, collars, knuckles, and blademaster blades all existed prior to this change. What they're doing is making it so you as a player don't have to drop 100cr on a decaying forged item to compete in the PVP scene. It is a buff, and a commitment by the administration that player forged weapons should at least be viable without ludicrous investment.

Amarillys

Tecton said:

Ahmet said:

So... if you wanted tailoring as a third tradeskill, you'd have to pay 50 credits for the extra credit slot, pay 200 credits for the permit, AND spend an extra 50% lessons in it, instead of previously just the cost of the permit?

I'm thinking we'll probably include the additional slot when people try to redeem the license, if they've already filled their two base slots with skills, saving that additional outlay.

This please.

Sena

Yeah, artefacts for most other classes were already strictly superior to unartied. And high-end forged weapons are no less pay-to-win than artefacts.

Tecton

Seftin said:

I just wanted to check - is this an actual fix for Knight combat, or just a cash cow for achaea? I understand Achaea must make a profit to run, and happy that they do as I enjoy the game.

It seems with these changes you are catering to the people who can afford to pay 1600cr a pop for a level 3 artefact weapon, to guarantee an edge - speed, damage, to hit - over any other player in the game who can't compete with their disposable income.

If stats are standardised for non-artie, and guaranteed to be worse than artefact weapons, you are creating a pay to win culture in the knight field. Is this something that you guys seriously thought through on a "balance combat" basis (taking in to account the balance between artied and unartied weapons presently being pretty good if you get good rapiers forged) or was it just a "Hey lets do this and get some lvl 3 weapon sales in" as, looking at it from an outsiders point of view, that's how it seems.




tl/dr - did you change artie weapons to be guaranteed better than forged to make a pay to win aspect and guarantee credit sales?

Definitely brings a new dynamic to the knight classes, allowing the players more avenues in their style of fighting.

As for your second point: it just brings knights into line with every other class in the game. We'll balance things around the base level (which is infinitely easier now that we're not trying to factor in ridiculous outlier weapons), and if you want to invest in artefacts, you can, and it will make things easier and/or faster. The way things are balanced in testing, a more-skilled knight without artefacts will beat a lesser-skilled knight with them, which we try to achieve with all of our classes, especially as we move forward with these new skills.

Deladan

Nexes said:

Seftin said:

I just wanted to check - is this an actual fix for Knight combat, or just a cash cow for achaea? I understand Achaea must make a profit to run, and happy that they do as I enjoy the game.

It seems with these changes you are catering to the people who can afford to pay 1600cr a pop for a level 3 artefact weapon, to guarantee an edge - speed, damage, to hit - over any other player in the game who can't compete with their disposable income.

If stats are standardised for non-artie, and guaranteed to be worse than artefact weapons, you are creating a pay to win culture in the knight field. Is this something that you guys seriously thought through on a "balance combat" basis (taking in to account the balance between artied and unartied weapons presently being pretty good if you get good rapiers forged) or was it just a "Hey lets do this and get some lvl 3 weapon sales in" as, looking at it from an outsiders point of view, that's how it seems.




tl/dr - did you change artie weapons to be guaranteed better than forged to make a pay to win aspect and guarantee credit sales?

This is kind of a ludicrous stance when stat artifacts, collars, knuckles, and blademaster blades all existed prior to this change. What they're doing is making it so you as a player don't have to drop 100cr on a decaying forged item to compete in the PVP scene. It is a buff, and a commitment by the administration that player forged weapons should at least be viable without ludicrous investment.

but I'm rather happy spending 50- 1... wait no I'm not... I've been playing a runewarden a long time (been dormant on and off a lot too). I have no clue how any of the changes to knight will fit my style... So yeah... this is gonna be a wild right whee....

Tecton

Addama said:

And now, for my question:

If you wish to change your Weaponmastery spec, will this require you to quit and rejoin your class, or will there be a mechanic/artefact to change your spec?

There will be a mechanic to change it, yeah. We'll have the ability to switch freely between the specs for the first week or two so you can try them all out before you decide on one.

Deladan

Tecton said:

Addama said:

And now, for my question:

If you wish to change your Weaponmastery spec, will this require you to quit and rejoin your class, or will there be a mechanic/artefact to change your spec?

There will be a mechanic to change it, yeah. We'll have the ability to switch freely between the specs for the first week or two so you can try them all out before you decide on one.

Can we test with and without the artefact weapons... want to see what I may need to trade in to get at least upper mid tier haha.

Taraza

@Tecton How useful will the weapons and armour be currently before the knight changes after they have been implemented? Even though that rapiers will no longer be useable by knights but for example if bastardswords are still usable or even scimitars that were forged before hand would these still be functioning properly or would all new weapons and armour need to be created by the new weapon and armour smithing standards? 

Tecton

Trey said:

@Tecton, two questions -

1. How easy will it be to swap weapon styles on knights?

2. I'm not planning on it but I'm sure the question will come up: does the 1:1 trade for knight weapons only apply to -swapping-,  or will knights going from dual rapiers/axes/whatever to one of the single weapon specs be able to 1:1 swap for a bastard/long and then trade the other in for 1600cr?

1. Answered above.
2. The plan is just for 1:1 swaps for now, if there are outlier cases, we should be able to work something out, but even in cases where you have a single weapon, there are advantages to having both possible weapons that the spec can use.

Kresslack

I'm rather glad Milking will be removed and Toxicology will be made available to anyone who wants to invest in it, because honestly Milking venoms to keep up with the demand for them was becoming a bit of a chore, especially when there's not that many people around who can sit in a milking room for hours at a time.

I was wondering if the Loki's tear amulet artefact will be changing to apply to Toxiology specifically, to maybe allow the production of two toxins per batch instead of one (like how it allowed the milking of two doses of venom instead of one, per milk).

Also, will this change the nature of affliction inducing substances away from the strictly liquid (venom) variety, to include powders and rubs? I ask because with it moving out of the Serpent realm exclusively, it opens up the potential for variety in how they're applied (e.g. throwing the crushed powder of some poisonous root up into the air of a room, where anyone in the room breathes it in and becomes afflicted, or throwing the powder into your opponent's face directly, etc).

Kyttin

Evvi said:

Kyttin said:

So essentially, if a serpent has to obtain herbs and other bits and pieces, does this finally make us really Assassins in all reality? I mean...I...hrm.. I'm not happy because now in order to milk I'm going to have to choose harvesting and I really don't have the time to harvest, it's why I left my sylvan!

I don't know how everyone else feels but Milking always was a pretty useless skills for personal use, since after trans venom we don't need vials anyway. I don't think you'll see many serpents go towards the venom-making route.

I am however curious to see the skill that'll replace Milking in venom. Maybe a new serpent-only venom? That'd be awesome.

Yeah, lets see, I started Kyt in June/July, spent about 800 dollars on everything she has, including tri-transing as well as artefacts that, NOW won't be refunded, so I have no choice but to go the milking route. Whereas you think it was useless, I made money off of it, albeit not a lot but it was still some income. Now, I have no choice, I have to take milking, otherwise I lose a shit-ton of RL money on credits by trading in the artefacts, and even then I won't be guaranteed to be able to trans that skill when I'm instantly transed on milking.

Kazu

@Tecton Will refunds be offered for tradeskill artefacts like the hammer of forging?

Tecton

Taraza said:

@Tecton How useful will the weapons and armour be currently before the knight changes after they have been implemented? Even though that rapiers will no longer be useable by knights but for example if bastardswords are still usable or even scimitars that were forged before hand would these still be functioning properly or would all new weapons and armour need to be created by the new weapon and armour smithing standards? 

All existing weapons and armour will be adjusted to the new standardised values.

Tecton

Deladan said:

Tecton said:

Addama said:

And now, for my question:

If you wish to change your Weaponmastery spec, will this require you to quit and rejoin your class, or will there be a mechanic/artefact to change your spec?

There will be a mechanic to change it, yeah. We'll have the ability to switch freely between the specs for the first week or two so you can try them all out before you decide on one.

Can we test with and without the artefact weapons... want to see what I may need to trade in to get at least upper mid tier haha.

You'll want to test with forged items, as your artefacts can only be switched out once!

Trey

Kazu said:

@Tecton Will refunds be offered for tradeskill artefacts like the hammer of forging?

That was answered above. If you bought within last 4 RL months, refund available,  otherwise trade in as normal. 

Daklore

@Tecton, regarding the refund point for rapier mastery, does this also come with the option to cash it in for the 100 lesson investment, or do we -have- to spend it on another mastery?

Also, regarding forging hammers, why does only the last four months get a 100% refund. Most of us in the past bought a forging hammer because a forging hammer was the only way to improve forging... now that it's no longer needed for that(unless forging still takes a ridiculous amount of time... in which case it shouldn't...), all users with forging hammers should have the option for 100% refund on their hammers. Just sayin'

Regarding fullplate, is it still going to have the ridiculous commodity costs that are currently associated with it, or is it(and hopefully fieldplate) getting a general cost reduction? Fullplate was always so expensive because it was no-decay... since it'll decay, as it costs now will be hard to stomach unless it provides a -massive- boost in defense over fieldplate. (also, can I plz haz my fullplate not decay? I never could think of anything to customize it with, now I'm going to lose out on not having a no-decay armour, which is why I have it :P)

Veldrin

so I got enchantment, tailoring, jewellery, inkmilling, cooking, gathering all trans. How many additional lessons/credits am I gonna have to spend to have my character's skills remain as I liked them?