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  • KenwayKenway San FranciscoMember Posts: 1,130 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited October 2014
    Does battlerage scale with speed like voicebalance? There was not chance to test that.
    @Makarios @Tecton

    - Limb Counter - Fracture Relapsing -
    "Honestly, I just love that it counts limbs." - Mizik Corten
  • CynlaelCynlael Member Posts: 3,257 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited October 2014
    Weapons are all standardised. The speed/damage that Rurin sells are going to be the norm when the changes go live, according to Big T. (or Makarios... Forget who I mentioned it to)

    aka: Forging not going to be very profitable in the Anarchaea state, since armour is likely to follow with the standardising. :/

  • ViciousVicious Member Posts: 410 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I don't want forging anymore, even though transed does this mean I'll just have the tradeskill or can I just NOT have that and have 12XX lessons to blow on <newweaponclass>. If the latter occurs and I no longer have any ability in forging does this mean I won't be able to use fullplate (meaning that whoever decides to trans forging as a trade skill can use fullplate?) which is a knight standard? Also, on my lemon meringue pie should I use 1 and a half cups of sugar or just 1?


  • SantarSantar Member Posts: 2,382 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Your forging is getting replaced with weaponmastery, as I understand it.

    image

  • ViciousVicious Member Posts: 410 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited October 2014
    No.
    Arachnachaea
    Post edited by Lorielan on


  • MakariosMakarios Administrator Posts: 1,868 Achaean staff
    Aha. Torn tendons is supposed to have a bal knock when it stops movement. That explains much!
    Kenway
  • AradorArador Member Posts: 1,696 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Ok Two Hander. It is the one I tried first, flailed around with, and the one I ended up liking the most by the end.

    The mechanic is interesting and fun, slowly building momentum to the point where you can really mess up someone's day. It kind of reminds me of old Alchemist. On the receiving end you just sit there thinking "This isn't so bad, not much is happening to me" and then all of a sudden this changes into "Oh god! What is happening to me!?" To be fair, I do not think anyone set up their curing to handle it well. No one was really using tree/restore to try and stay ahead of the fractures so it is hard to say how well it would do in a real make-believe world situation.

    From the bit I played these were my impressions:
    1. Can we as players agree on terminology please? My idea: You have a single fracture on a limb. A bunch of fractures together on a limb is a stack. Clearing a stack of giving a stack is not clearing or giving a single fracture, it is wiping all the fractures from limb or adding a bunch of fractures to a limb. I've seen people talk about wiping a stack when they actually mean curing one fracture, leading to a ton of confusion.
    2. There is no point to focus speed. At least not 99% of the time. You might as well put focus precision on a triggered loop as that lets you build up fractures faster.
    3. This can make using Perceive a bit of a pain as you have to sacrifice momentum to do it. This is not a completely horrible thing, though. You could track fractures on your opponent with a simple counter when they apply tonic to the limb and when you hit. But I do think people will run a lot against this spec so you will have to use Perceive when you get hold of them again, essentially slowing your momentum before you can start fracturing again at full speed.
    4. Continuation looks like an awesome skill but I do not really see a use for it. If you are using your battlerage to focus precision the whole time, it could be anywhere from 1-5 seconds before it is available to cure your paralysis, and if you do use continuation you are without battlerage for 15 seconds, essentially removing the ability to perceive or focus precision for the next 4-5 attacks and losing you a lot of momentum. Might be smarter to just go defensive for a few moments, cure it and double fracture as normal.
    5. Bastard is probably more potent than hammer, that extra venom along with the fracture effects can really help. It s a bit slower, but not by much really. Hammer does break limbs faster, an average of about 9 hits on a limb which to be fair is not what I would call "very fast". This is not a problem though, you are building fractures, not doing limb setups for physical breaks, I just do not think that the hammer breaking faster than the sword makes up for the lack of venom. Not going to suggest any change for this though since I could be horribly wrong with the little bit of testing I did.
    6. Also, the whole DSB thing. Yes you could swap out for a cheap bastardsword to do the impale and DSB it just strikes me as less cool, especially if you have an awesome artefact hammer. Could I suggest a hammer flavoured version of DSB with the exact same method and effects? Instead of Impale, you slam your boot into the guy's throat to hold him down. Then when you get balance back you bring your hammer down on his torso for a massive crushing blow. Same damage and effects as impale, same damage and effects as DSB, deathsight could be his torso exploding or being compressed into a pulp.

    Anyway, that is the impression I have of it, it really looks awesome with a lot of potential, especially if you start playing with those passive effects.

  • AradorArador Member Posts: 1,696 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Also, I forgot to bug this in game but I was causing untrapped errors when spamming devastate arms while off balance.

  • MakariosMakarios Administrator Posts: 1,868 Achaean staff

    Warhammers should be breaking around two times faster than bastardswords. The speed also means more fractures per second, but less damage.

    Focus speed should probably be your go to against less tanky people. You don't need to super devastate someone with only 3900 health, for instance. It also helps for chaining limb breaks outside of devastate.

    Battlerage continuation is intended as a lockbreak. Its there because since you're off bal a lot more than most classes, the fitness window is far smaller than for comparable classes.

    Kenway
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited October 2014
    Does "standardised" mean no randomness in weapon stats at all, or just less variation? I was thinking (partially based on the announce post saying there would be less chance of unbalancing outlier weapons, rather than no chance) that it would still be random just within a much narrower range.
  • AradorArador Member Posts: 1,696 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited October 2014
    Ahh, thanks.

    To be fair though, if you are using your battlerage on speed or precision (which you probably should if you want to stack up fractures as quickly as possible) you are normally going to be further away, timewise, from being able to use continuation to allow you to get to your tree tattoo (assuming you have tree balance as well) than from using fitness in a lot of cases but it is a nice option in niche situations.

    Edit: Oh, did not having the proficiency for warhammer on the test server affect the normal limb damage as it does in Achaea?

  • CynlaelCynlael Member Posts: 3,257 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sena said:
    Does "standardised" mean no randomness in weapon stats at all, or just less variation? I was thinking (partially based on the announce post saying there would be less chance of unbalancing outlier weapons, rather than no chance) that it would still be random just within a much narrower range.
    Well I forged about 12 bastard swords, and about 6 or 7 flails.. All of the swords had exactly the same stats, and all the flails had the same stats... When I asked Makarios, he said it was intended and not a bug like I thought it was.

    Sena
  • DavioDavio Member Posts: 108
    It was a lot of fun trying 2h and snb. Can't  say much about the others since I didn't have the time to mess with dualblunt at all. Would definitely like it better if warhammer had an impale/dsb replacement that worked exactly the same, writhe to get out of whatever, dsb conditions for hammersmash.

    Either way, thanks for the experience and effort in making knight fun/unique/more than rapiers.
  • AedinAedin Member Posts: 306 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Well, was rather sad waking up this morning and going to go log in and couldn't it will be missed thats for sure! On other news, the whole time during it I played dualblunt and love the concept of it all but only thing I've noticed and talking with few others mentioned as well, is how hard your damage just falls out through either clumsiness and/or paralysis spam and you lose momentum so quickly through it. Next would be a finisher, which wouldn't really need it but assuming the previous with no true way to hinder someone back so you can actually get a hit in, other than that I personally love the concept and look forward to it.
    Arador
  • SynbiosSynbios Member Posts: 4,619 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Arador said:

    From the bit I played these were my impressions:
    1. Can we as players agree on terminology please? My idea: You have a single fracture on a limb. A bunch of fractures together on a limb is a stack. Clearing a stack of giving a stack is not clearing or giving a single fracture, it is wiping all the fractures from limb or adding a bunch of fractures to a limb. I've seen people talk about wiping a stack when they actually mean curing one fracture, leading to a ton of confusion.

    @Arador: "You got a lot of fracs there, all stacked up...Whoa, that's a nasty frac stack. Looks like you're all fracc'ed up the second they smack your stack with a devas...tak."

    Thoughts: If my understanding is right, that devastate uses up(AKA sets to 0) your built-up fracture stacks to deal heavy limb damage, I'd use the term 'clearing stacks' for when someone cures our your stack with APPLY HEALING/VITALITY, while devastating the stacks to give out those limb breaks would count as 'burning stacks'.

    Aedin
  • ErnamErnam Member Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean

    Reminds me of one of the things I hated most about Caprica.

    "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


          Manda  |  Godzilla  |  SLC
      1. ExelethrilExelethril Member Posts: 3,352 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        Would a 2h knight that only uses a bastard sword be at a disadvantage versus a 2h knight that uses a warhammer/bastard sword? Don't really like the flavour behind warhammers, hrrngh.

        [ SnB PvP Guide | Link ]

        [ Runewarden Sparring Videos | Link ]
        Mizik
      2. RangorRangor Member Posts: 3,252 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        I'm willing to bet that to be at top performance you need to switch between hammer and sword fluidly.
        image
        Exelethril
      3. AradorArador Member Posts: 1,696 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        The venom on the sword can be a massive advantage when paired well with the effects from the fractures. The hammer is slightly faster on hits, but not by much, of course the limb breaks are twice as fast with hammer but I am not sure if I was bugged since I was taking 9-10 hits at over 3 seconds balance per hit with the hammer to break limbs, which is not what I would call "fast" in any case. All and all I think the sword is the better of the two but I think this will only become clear once we see it out in the real world where people cure properly against it.

        ExelethrilAlcinae
      4. MakariosMakarios Administrator Posts: 1,868 Achaean staff
        You'll be able to function no problem restricted to one type of weapon if you prefer. Like most combat in Achaea though, more versatility is going to only improve your options.
        Exelethril
      5. MannimarMannimar Member Posts: 973
        One of my primary concerns were that not all of the skills in some specs were usable with the weapons of that skill. For instance there is no alternative for impale when using a warhammer. (forget if that was in the spec tree) However there are bladed skills that are in trees that allow blunt weapons, but no alternative for the blunt weapons
      6. BukariinBukariin Member Posts: 438 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
        Seems that not being able to use venoms at all would impose some severe limits on your options.

        Question: If you sword-and-board, can you just swap between blunt and edged weapons freely, or do you have to dedicate yourself to one?  Because if you can swap, I can foresee that being a pretty popular, flexible, balanced option.
        Chalos
      7. MakariosMakarios Administrator Posts: 1,868 Achaean staff
        Sword and board is purely bladed weapons. They get access to longswords (faster, lower damage) and broadswords (higher damage, slower).
      8. BukariinBukariin Member Posts: 438 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
        Ahhh.  Well, nevermind then.
      9. KlendathuKlendathu Eye of the StormMember Posts: 3,178 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        Makarios said:
        Sword and board is purely bladed weapons. They get access to longswords (faster, lower damage) and broadswords (higher damage, slower).
        There goes my dream of being a mace and shield wielding thug. Dreams, crushed. I hope you're proud of yourself -toys out of pram- -door slam-

        j/k, obv

        Tharos, the Announcer of Delos shouts, "It's near the end of the egghunt and I still haven't figured out how to pronounce Clean-dat-hoo."
        Austere
      10. AradorArador Member Posts: 1,696 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        Man, the bad thing about about such a short time to play with the specs is that you spend half the time reading and trying to write some form of offence aliases and half the time flailing around trying to figure out what it all does. Then you sit here the day after thinking "Wait! I just thought of something potentially awesome!" or "I should quickly check that effect and timing" and then kicking yourself for not thinking of it sooner. 

      11. KenwayKenway San FranciscoMember Posts: 1,130 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        I actually feel like I got a pretty good feel for it since my offense was fairly easy to convert. Spent about 15-20min switching it over and probably another 15min adding stuff as I thought of it but the rest of the time was spent actually using the skills and trying different strategies so feel free to talk to me about ideas and I'll let you know if it's something I tried!

        - Limb Counter - Fracture Relapsing -
        "Honestly, I just love that it counts limbs." - Mizik Corten
      12. AeliosAelios Member Posts: 449 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
        I hashed out everything except dual blunt, which I still think is a joke. 2H is way strong, and so is S&B. Both have their benefits without a doubt.

        "You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else."

         -Albert Einstein

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