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  • CynlaelCynlael Member Posts: 3,257 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited October 2014
    https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/72d8233e The tankier/harder hitting Vertani. Dying fast, and doing almost no damage...

    And from a friend, who was a Sylvan at the time of this:

    3750h, 4650m, 14353e, 8172w ex-
    Cynlael carves into your flesh with a vicious strike, opening a bleeding wound.
    Cynlael brutally smashes a tower shield into you.
    2173h, 4650m, 14353e, 8172w ex-

    Generic bashing combo, doing 1600 damage ._.

    e: forgot to add, only 13 str.

  • AradorArador Member Posts: 1,696 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Well for the equilibrium cost of a single limb restore you can wipe an entire stack, same with a tree tattoo or shrugging or alleviate. So I do not think it will be impossible to keep up. Also if you have something like Hands, Vigour, anything that heals health, you can lean on that and let elixir balance go to curing. 

  • ErnamErnam Member Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Makarios said:

    Enf/absolve and cripple/vivisect got nerfed years ago.

    Nausea is mostly justified by them being sick (which tends to make you less coordinated). It was originally clumsiness, but reallistically clumsiness is one of the best afflictions already. Couldn't really justify.

    Its also never going to lose you affs/damage. If they redirect your attack you still hit them so the affs go through, you just don't hit the limb.

    This makes it awesome, thanks for the clarification.

    "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


          Manda  |  Godzilla  |  SLC
      1. MakariosMakarios Administrator Posts: 1,868 Achaean staff
        Just to further clarify, only two handed can give those health based affs. Sword and board can't.
      2. MakariosMakarios Administrator Posts: 1,868 Achaean staff
        The bashing damage will also be way off presently. Its not been brought in line like the other classes were recently yet.
      3. MakariosMakarios Administrator Posts: 1,868 Achaean staff

        Snb damage should be less crazy now. Was an issue where it wasn't being mitigated properly.

        Kenway
      4. CynlaelCynlael Member Posts: 3,257 @@ - Legendary Achaean

        Makarios said:

        Snb damage should be less crazy now. Was an issue where it wasn't being mitigated properly.

        Noooooo

        ps, pls let me flag mods.

        ShirszaeKerria
      5. AradorArador Member Posts: 1,696 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        Yeah I was laughing at some of the damage I was doing. Question: While I fully admit I have not been able to fully play with S&B affliction potential, the limb damage seems a bit low on Slice. 12 hits per limb to break on around 5k health with longsword. I realise rend is lower but with no ferocity buildup, so you could set up with rend, then work on building up ferocity before using slice to break. It does seem a bit long though. Even old Knights set up and broke faster than that. 

        Is this still under consideration or is it intentional that S&B should set up this slowly? I realise they do not need 2 legs to DSB do total setup for that is much much lower than for current knight. Was more thinking along the lines for rift locks, vivisect soft locks. 

      6. AedinAedin Member Posts: 306 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
        edited October 2014
        So I'm not fully grasping the whole point of dualblunt really? Just seems to be lacking something really in my opinion. Side note which would make it a lot easier how come expend wont hit on two limbs like it says?
        edit: I'm love the whole dual flail part but I just think something more was there or it feels like it should be.
      7. MakariosMakarios Administrator Posts: 1,868 Achaean staff

        Snb is intended to prep that slowly, yeah. Would be too potent with the one leg dsb otherwise reallistically.

        Expend will fire on the limb you specify, for instance:

        DOUBLEWHIRL TECTON LEFT ARM EXPEND LEFT LEG would fire on the left arm hit.

        DOUBLEWHIRL TECTON LEFT ARM LEFT LEG EXPEND would fire on the left leg hit.

        There's quite a bit of versatility there, but not really opposed to adding some more things if it becomes necessary.

      8. AradorArador Member Posts: 1,696 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        edited October 2014
        Yeah dual blunt strikes me as "Discount Monk" at the moment, able to break limbs quickly but I am not sure if they can truly capitalise on it. Depends on DW and Assault damage and how that scales. If that doesn't scale enough then you will probably have a break even spot where you can either handle the damage being laid onto you and survive forever, or you can not and the limb breaking hinders you long enough for the Knight to get the kill. If the increased damage from Doublewhirl while your opponent is prone and with a broken limb scales in such a way that it can never be tanked indefinitely, then ignore everything I just said.

        On Expend, I think he meant though that in the AB file it states that you can DOUBLEWHIRL <target> <limb1> [EXPEND] <limb2> [EXPEND], which infers that if you target two different limbs you should get the expend effect on both.

        With Doublewhirl peaking at around 3s from what I saw it will probably be a bit too slow to work with Vivisect because there are no venom options, unless you can delay their salve balance enough through head breaks or mangles.

        Edit: Oh and if Assault could be used on arms or legs too....gods that would be sexy but should probably come with a much higher Momentum cost than doing it to head or torso or you will end up with ridiculous perma-mangles.

      9. MakariosMakarios Administrator Posts: 1,868 Achaean staff
        The syntax is mostly to illustrate that the expend can go in either place. We'll adjust the abfile to be more specific.
        AradorAedin
      10. AedinAedin Member Posts: 306 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
        While I love the concept of dualblunt it just seems very lack luster in so many ways compared to every other spec.

        Been testing on Halios and even with head and leg prepped, broke head and expended on the leg, proning him followed into an assault on the head giving him a level three he just walked away as if it was nothing.  Without the ability to cause more damage to other limbs besides just head and torso seems to be a slight issue.

        Then it seems to be you have to litterally take the full brunt of all the damage as well with no real way to hinder as compared to using venoms to slow the assault of other classes, besides doing some good damage but others seem to highly outshine it in other forms of the specs.

        Just curious as to why there is also Arc in the skillset when I have to use a bladed weapon for it to be used?

        just my .02
      11. AradorArador Member Posts: 1,696 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        Just an idea here, maybe break both legs, prone, break torso, assault torso, then wail on torso with DW. From what I understand the damage on it scales with limb damage level. Not sure how much time you will have so might have to adjust your leg breaks in such a way that you can keep em prone for longer while you lay into that torso for the damage boost in DW. 

      12. MakariosMakarios Administrator Posts: 1,868 Achaean staff

        You can prep limbs with expend on head for hinder (it stuns).

        You'll want to use assault as your finisher. Dual blunt is pretty much the opposite of snb; you prep limbs much faster, so are expected to need to break more to secure a kill. If you did, say, break arm/leg expend to prone, break other leg, hit that leg again for momentum (this also does significantly more damage because you're hitting an already broken limb) then assault head, you'd likely have better results.

      13. CynlaelCynlael Member Posts: 3,257 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        Not the greatest, but I think it can decently reinforce what Makarios is saying.
        https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/3e4f7f85
        15 strength dualblunt.

        Was a decent pause between getting balance back from the 2nd break and the actual assault to give some time for regen. Vs a Sylvan with 4600 health / 65 blunt chainmail.

        Assault was doing just shy of 2500 damage alone.

        Shirszae
      14. KenwayKenway San FranciscoMember Posts: 1,130 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        Been thinking on it and I find it really hard to justify using BATTLERAGE FOCUS  SPEED over PRECISION. Two sticks just seems more valuable than 1s faster balance every other hit. I suppose it will be useful for the very real possibility of rift locks but aside from that it seems a lot less attractive in most all situations. I'm actually driving from Pullman to Seattle today so if people couldn't ponder this and maybe test a bit and post thoughts here that'd be great.

        - Limb Counter - Fracture Relapsing -
        "Honestly, I just love that it counts limbs." - Mizik Corten
      15. MizikMizik Member Posts: 2,119 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        edited October 2014
        @Tecton Not sure if it's been mentioned.

        Artefact weapons:

        Will the dual wielding specs requiring double the credit investment see,

        A ) Lowered prices in artefact weapons
        B ) Be deliberately more potent than the single wielding specs
        C ) With the new exclusivity of weapons and their effectiveness with abilities sell Scimitars and Flails - whatever will be dual wielded - in pairs at their current sticker price.

        I'd recommend option C, but only if henceforth level 3 artefacts will ALWAYS be better than forged goods. Eliminating the option that you can pair a lv3 artefact with a wildcard amazing forged sword and have a dud lv3 in inventory.

        It might even be worth coding an exception for artefact weapons as 'a pair of Scimitar of Eagles in your hands' single item, rather than left/right. Then figure out a way to deal with customs.
        image
      16. TectonTecton The Garden of the GodsAdministrator Posts: 2,507 Admin
        Mizik said:
        @Tecton Not sure if it's been mentioned.

        Artefact weapons:

        Will the dual wielding specs requiring double the credit investment see,

        A ) Lowered prices in artefact weapons
        B ) Be deliberately more potent than the single wielding specs
        C ) With the new exclusivity of weapons and their effectiveness with abilities sell Scimitars and Flails - whatever will be dual wielded - in pairs at their current sticker price.

        I'd recommend option C, but only if henceforth level 3 artefacts will ALWAYS be better than forged goods. Eliminating the option that you can pair a lv3 artefact with a wildcard amazing forged sword and have a dud lv3 in inventory.

        It might even be worth coding an exception for artefact weapons as 'a pair of Scimitar of Eagles in your hands' single item, rather than left/right. Then figure out a way to deal with customs.
        Final details are still being worked out!
      17. AepasAepas Member Posts: 1,619 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        While we're working on the artifact stuff, will we have a chance to trade out a lvl 3 weapon besides rapiers? I have a lvl 3 scimitar that I found to be rather useless in the current state of knight combat, but would consider switching it over to a twohander or something.
        Replies the scorpion: "It's my nature..."
      18. MizikMizik Member Posts: 2,119 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        Not to mention all the Soulpiercers are now worthless.
        image
      19. TectonTecton The Garden of the GodsAdministrator Posts: 2,507 Admin
        Aepas said:
        While we're working on the artifact stuff, will we have a chance to trade out a lvl 3 weapon besides rapiers? I have a lvl 3 scimitar that I found to be rather useless in the current state of knight combat, but would consider switching it over to a twohander or something.
        All of the artefact knight weapons will be able to switched out for a different knight weapon with this change, yes.
      20. TreyTrey Member Posts: 4,795 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        Depending on the efficiency and cost of switching between styles, I might trade one rapier for a longsword and the other for a bastard to allow for two styles.

        @Tecton, given the shift in purpose I'm sure it goes without saying, but I assume forging values for scims are going to change to resemble their artefact counterparts?

      21. TectonTecton The Garden of the GodsAdministrator Posts: 2,507 Admin
        Trey said:
        Depending on the efficiency and cost of switching between styles, I might trade one rapier for a longsword and the other for a bastard to allow for two styles.

        @Tecton, given the shift in purpose I'm sure it goes without saying, but I assume forging values for scims are going to change to resemble their artefact counterparts?
        Yes, forged weapon stats are currently what Rurin sells.
      22. AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,920 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        Tecton said:
        Aepas said:
        While we're working on the artifact stuff, will we have a chance to trade out a lvl 3 weapon besides rapiers? I have a lvl 3 scimitar that I found to be rather useless in the current state of knight combat, but would consider switching it over to a twohander or something.
        All of the artefact knight weapons will be able to switched out for a different knight weapon with this change, yes.
        What about customisations or those of us with a lot of artefact weapons currently? I'm only going to want two artefact weapons after the switch, unless there are artefacts that allow spec switching without a lesson cost. Am I going to be able to get the credits I spent on my broadswords back since they'll no longer be any use to me?
        Aedin
      23. AedinAedin Member Posts: 306 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
        Antonius said:
        Tecton said:
        Aepas said:
        While we're working on the artifact stuff, will we have a chance to trade out a lvl 3 weapon besides rapiers? I have a lvl 3 scimitar that I found to be rather useless in the current state of knight combat, but would consider switching it over to a twohander or something.
        All of the artefact knight weapons will be able to switched out for a different knight weapon with this change, yes.
        What about customisations or those of us with a lot of artefact weapons currently? I'm only going to want two artefact weapons after the switch, unless there are artefacts that allow spec switching without a lesson cost. Am I going to be able to get the credits I spent on my broadswords back since they'll no longer be any use to me?
        I actually asked the same question earlier in game to @Tecton‌ and sadly didn't a reply back as my rapiers are both customized.
      24. AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,920 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        Customisations aren't my major concern, since it's only 200 credits. Mostly worried about being stuck with 1600 credits worth of useless broadswords since I'll be speccing dual cutting, and don't really see a need to have artefact battleaxes.
      25. SantarSantar Member Posts: 2,382 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        edited October 2014
        @Antonius‌ ;

        Why would you need a full value trade-in on your current weapons?

        You purchased your current weapon sets for the dual cutting class, which you can still play. If you currently have soulpiercers/broadswords as your two sets, then having a scimitar and battleaxe set is the equivalent of what you have now.

        You didn't lose anything. All you have to do is convert your current weapons into scimitars and battleaxes. If you had more than two sets, you'd have a valid complaint, but it seems to me that you previously bought two sets for soulpiercers and broadswords, which directly translates to the 'new' scimitars and battleaxes.

        image

        Ernam
      26. AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,920 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        They're equivalent if mechanics are your only concern, but that's not the case for everybody (myself included). Without going into more detail, let's just say that the entire reason for me personally buying my broadswords will be negated by the Knight changes, and I don't consider battleaxes a suitable replacement.

        Basically, I don't need a full refund, but I also don't see why they don't allow people to trade-in at full value instead of offering a switch.
      27. SantarSantar Member Posts: 2,382 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        So, you want a 3200 credit refund because you feel your RP has been infringed upon? 

        image

        Morthif
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