Feedback: Knight changes

Tecton

Just moving the feedback for the knight class testing to its own thread. Feel free to post up your thoughts/comments/suggestions from your time testing!

Aelios

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/d1c1f178

Trilliana

Aelios said:

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/d1c1f178

Question: since Rapier will be Bard only, do you get lessons back if you bough the proficiency? (Assuming you can no longer learn the proficiency since it's bard only)

Sena

I'm hoping "bard-only" is referring to class skills (meaning rapiers won't work with chivalry/weaponmastery), rather than actually being unusable for anyone else.

Valaria

sadly no 100% lessons back here when i like twohand spec... it make me want to switch back to runewarden.. (I guess i'm regretting it now..)

Valaria

how much lessons would one invest in for those one of four spec? it seem that it would cost about 1736 lessons to transcend them... Because the knights would have three class skillset and a spec skillset. What more, I don't know if weapon's accuracy would be dependent on lessons/rank of spec skillset or weaponry skillset.

Tecton

Valaria said:

how much lessons would one invest in for those one of four spec? it seem that it would cost about 1736 lessons to transcend them... Because the knights would have three class skillset and a spec skillset. What more, I don't know if weapon's accuracy would be dependent on lessons/rank of spec skillset or weaponry skillset.

Will be the same number of lessons to transcend as other skills. Knights won't have forging when this goes live, so they'll have the same three skills as everyone else.

Valaria

AH you right, i forgot about forging. I assume new 'forging' skillset will be a seperate trade skillset to use, @tecton? 

Trey

@Tecton, will we be able to choose more than one specialisation for knight? I know all four is probably a stretch (maybe an artie or something? I dunno), but it'd be cool. Also, I'm going to go play around with it now, but please tell me that Bastards aren't going to be slower than shit.

Tecton

Valaria said:

AH you right, i forgot about forging. I assume new 'forging' skillset will be a seperate trade skillset to use, @tecton? 

Correct!

Tecton

Trey said:

@Tecton, will we be able to choose more than one specialisation for knight? I know all four is probably a stretch (maybe an artie or something? I dunno), but it'd be cool. Also, I'm going to go play around with it now, but please tell me that Bastards aren't going to be slower than shit.

Just one specialisation! Each has its own unique tools to take advantage of the available weapons.

Bukariin

Nausea as a method of parry mitigation makes me all kinds of moist

Valaria

Kenway

SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Knightstuffyes

Caladbolg

This is nice, should let us player test things more often, being able to see knight changes and how they are being developed has improved knight moral in the clans i'm in by like 1000%.

Makarios

Just to address Trey, two hander is the slowest of the specs in terms of weapon attacks. It has a lot of things to augment the offense though, so you shouldn't be sitting on your thumbs at any point. (By that I mean off balance useable abilities.)

Arador

@Tecton Will you learn your specialization specifically or will you just learn the Weapon Mastery and then pick a specialisation, available skills being dependant on how much Weapon Mastery you have learned?

Also can you switch your specialisation without relearning the entire skill? If so, I would imagine a massive cooldown and change delay so you can not abuse multiple specialisation effects mid-fight.

Only having access to one at a time is fine, it would just suck if you had to spend 1800 lessons each time you would like to try another specialisation. Perhaps allow people to swap once every RL day and an artefact to shorten that time.

Tecton

Arador said:

@Tecton Will you learn your specialization specifically or will you just learn the Weapon Mastery and then pick a specialisation, available skills being dependant on how much Weapon Mastery you have learned?

Also can you switch your specialisation without relearning the entire skill? If so, I would imagine a massive cooldown and change delay so you can not abuse multiple specialisation effects mid-fight.

Only having access to one at a time is fine, it would just suck if you had to spend 1800 lessons each time you would like to try another specialisation. Perhaps allow people to swap once every RL day and an artefact to shorten that time.

Yes, you'll learn lessons in Weaponmastery and then your spec-specific abilities will unlock up to that skill level when you pick a specialisation. 

We may enable changing specialisations for a fee, and if we do, you won't need to relearn/reinvest any lessons.

Valdus

Aelios said:

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/d1c1f178

Welp.

Lost all interest in Knights.

Cynlael

If it was done, what would the fee be paid in?
Gold? Lessons? Credits? Your soul? Aradors soul?

edit: Thinking ahead a bit here, but when the specialisations are implemented onto live, will Knights have free specialisation resets for say... The first 48/72 hours after they're released, so they can get a feel for what one suits them best?

e2: This would also allow artefact weapon holders to use standard forged weapons to test with, before deciding on what they want to change their artefact one into.

Kuy

This whole main skill into a specialisation thing is basically what Lusternia is based on.

That said, their skill system is way different, especially in regards to forgetting/learning and the amount of lessons required.  To sum it up, each skill is in a particular "pool", and switching to other skills within that pool means you lose fewer lessons.

Since each Weaponry spec seems like it's a different skill all together (I haven't looked at them to know), it would be cool if, instead of having to relearn the skill, if there was an artefact similar to dagger of reincarnation and gilded page that allowed you to switch specs at a reduced cost (100cr seems fine to me).

I don't agree that you should get to switch for free, though.  Especially when considering those that have bought artefact weapons only get one free change on them.

Tecton

Kuy said:

This whole main skill into a specialisation thing is basically what Lusternia is based on.

Since each Weaponry spec seems like it's a different skill all together (I haven't looked at them to know), it would be cool if, instead of having to relearn the skill, if there was an artefact similar to dagger of reincarnation and gilded page that allowed you to switch specs at a reduced cost (100cr seems fine to me).

They're the same skill, just different abilities unlock based on your specialisation, so if you were to change specialisation at transcendent, you'd still be at transcendent in your new specialisation.

Kuy

Tecton said:

Kuy said:

This whole main skill into a specialisation thing is basically what Lusternia is based on.

Since each Weaponry spec seems like it's a different skill all together (I haven't looked at them to know), it would be cool if, instead of having to relearn the skill, if there was an artefact similar to dagger of reincarnation and gilded page that allowed you to switch specs at a reduced cost (100cr seems fine to me).

They're the same skill, just different abilities unlock based on your specialisation, so if you were to change specialisation at transcendent, you'd still be at transcendent in your new specialisation.

Then yea.  I'd definitely think it would be more of a one-use artie style thing to change.

Could squeeze some mad dollars on life-time knights with an artie that allowed you to change at will with a cooldown, similar to race-change gem.

Ziva

Are knights going to have the ability (if they choose sword & Board spec) to wield a shield of absorption? Because, that seems a wee bit overpowered in compared to the other specs. I'm also kind of nervous about the fact changing armor does not take any balance/cooldown at the moment. So, if I saw some knight coming at me with duel morningstars, I'd be tempted to do a quick change to stronger blunt armor rather than my cutting which from an rp standpoint doesn't really make sense. 
All and all, this makes me really excited for the upcoming changes. It's totally awesome that knight just kind of multiplied into 12 different classes (3 knight classes w/ 4 specs to chose from). I hope we get time to mess around with each spec before having to actually chose one when it does roll out, though. Thank you!

Arador

Well the armour swapping thing is not really new. Most people will switch to Blunt armour if they are going to fight a monk. I do not think this is really a problem. All I do hope for us a few resets so we can figure out what we would like to go for. This is strange, I know but this is also a new thing in Achaea.

First prize would be "First time you change to a spec, it is free. After that 100 credits to change to it again or 1000 credits for the ability to change once per RL day"

That way you can at least try them all on for size before committing and shelling out the credits to do so.

Ziva

Arador said:

Well the armour swapping thing is not really new. Most people will switch to Blunt armour if they are going to fight a monk. I do not think this is really a problem. All I do hope for us a few resets so we can figure out what we would like to go for. This is strange, I know but this is also a new thing in Achaea.

First prize would be "First time you change to a spec, it is free. After that 100 credits to change to it again or 1000 credits for the ability to change once per RL day"

That way you can at least try them all on for size before committing and shelling out the credits to do so.

I agree for the most part with what you're saying regarding armor. If you know someone is a priest or monk you can switch out prior to going into battle with them. With these changes, you won't know what your opponent weilds until you're face-to-face with them and they start hitting you with blows. I can see a future of:
knight flails me
ziva removes a shimmering suit a full plate armor.
ziva wears a shimmering suit of full plate armor.

while it logically make sense in combat to switch out to the best armor versus the class you are facing, from an RP perspective this seriously makes little to no sense to me. 
Donning armor in real life would take several hours and require aid. 

Makarios

This won't really be an issue due to stat standardisation.

Trey

Ziva said:

Arador said:

Well the armour swapping thing is not really new. Most people will switch to Blunt armour if they are going to fight a monk. I do not think this is really a problem. All I do hope for us a few resets so we can figure out what we would like to go for. This is strange, I know but this is also a new thing in Achaea.

First prize would be "First time you change to a spec, it is free. After that 100 credits to change to it again or 1000 credits for the ability to change once per RL day"

That way you can at least try them all on for size before committing and shelling out the credits to do so.

I agree for the most part with what you're saying regarding armor. If you know someone is a priest or monk you can switch out prior to going into battle with them. With these changes, you won't know what your opponent weilds until you're face-to-face with them and they start hitting you with blows. I can see a future of:
knight flails me
ziva removes a shimmering suit a full plate armor.
ziva wears a shimmering suit of full plate armor.

while it logically make sense in combat to switch out to the best armor versus the class you are facing, from an RP perspective this seriously makes little to no sense to me. 
Donning armor in real life would take several hours and require aid. 

The bolded is horribly incorrect.

Valdus said:

Aelios said:

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/d1c1f178

Welp.

Lost all interest in Knights.

Don't act like a daisy, this is fairly awesome.

Tecton

This discussion was created from comments split from: Anarchaea!.

Exelethril

Hmm, two-handed feels a bit slow. Also, RIP lunge.

Ziva

Lol, you're totally right @trey. I blame my phone but mostly not pre-reading before I posted. Donning  a suit of armor takes about 30 minutes... Assuming a full plate of armor.